What's The Worst Map For Each Civ?

[davis freeberg]

I usually play random everything, so that each game is a bit of a surprise and after a 30 or 40 games now, I've noticed that who you match up with which map really makes a difference.

For example, if you're King Louis from France, your ideal map would be a small/med island that allowed you to exploit your industrious and creativity strengths with the least amount of interference from overseas nations. On the other hand, trying to use France on a Pangean map is tough because the creativity interfers with diplomatic relations and you can't devote time to wonders because you need military.

After playing a couple of games where I've tried to create the ideal map settings for a particular leader, I want to try a harder challenge. Which leader/map combo do you think is the absolute worst starting match-up?

 

[Matthew5117]

Does it include settings?

If settings are included, I'd choose Tokugawa on a Duel Sized map, Archipelago with Always Peace on. Aggressive and Protective renders useless with Always Peace on. On top of that, the UU and UB don't help the economical disadvantage at all, with that, Archipelago sucks with Tokugawa.

If settings aren't included, I'd choose Julius Caesar on a Duel Sized map, Archipelago. Organized on a Duel Sized map!?! Imperialistic with little room to REX to? UU rendered useless with Archipelago? Sucks to be Julius!

 

[davis freeberg]

We better leave settings out of it for now since that might complicate things a bit more. Caesar's core advantages would be nuked on duel and archipelago, but having praetorians would be a huge advantage in a 1 on 1 game. What do you think of Stalin on Normal sized map with snaky continents? Without land, it would make it more difficult to produce wonders (industrious) or spaceship parts (Research center) and the ocean would help to limit the effectiveness of how aggressive he could be. He'd still have a decent UU, but resources seem harder to come by on the water maps.

 

[troytheface]

jungle isle map with Egypt would disarm the unique unit

likewise a plains map with the celts would not be helpful.

alot of "make the unique units suffer" variations

"make the unique building and the unique unit and the traits suffer" would be a mix i would think, lets say the dutch, deserty map without alot of rivers or water.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Joao has a sea-based UU and UB, so an oceanless map such as highlands would neutralize that.
He is also good at Rexing, so probably a smaller or more crowded map would cramp his style.

 

[Gooblah]

Archipelago, tiny islands, high sea level for every Civ EXCEPT:

Dutch, Americans, any Financial Leader, Portuguese, Vikings

Done.

 

[Matthew5117]

^^Good idea. Originially I was thinking of Willem, but his traits seem to work on every map.

How about a Duel Highlands Map with 18 civs as Joao?

 

[Rusty Edge]

^^Good idea. Originially I was thinking of Willem, but his traits seem to work on every map.

How about a Duel Highlands Map with 18 civs as Joao?

Duel 18 civs sounds like an oxymoron to me....

But that's my idea of a game with no advantages.


Another type of challenge is to play with a reduced number of civs on Huge/Marathon/ raging barbs on an a highland map
( where the attacking axemen get defensive bonuses ) or plains map ( where there aren't many forests to chop to rush the Great Wall.) . The hordes will consume civs.

A non-industrial, non-aggressive, non-protective leader without an early UU would be in peril.

 

[Matthew5117]

^To work on that:

Brennus on a Huge Plains Map. UU rendered useless without hills. Charismatic and Spirutal the least helful traits for a Huge map with 3 civs. The other civs would be Tokugawa and Qin Shi Huang. Plus, the level would be Deity in order to make the civs survive.

Tokugawa because his warring traits to protect himself from the barbs and his unfriendly trading reputation. Qin Shi Huang obviosuly because the industrious trait will take all your wonders from you and protective to protect himself.

 

[Rusty Edge]

^To work on that:

Brennus on a Huge Plains Map. UU rendered useless without hills. Charismatic and Spirutal the least helful traits for a Huge map with 3 civs. The other civs would be Tokugawa and Qin Shi Huang. Plus, the level would be Deity in order to make the civs survive.

Tokugawa because his warring traits to protect himself from the barbs and his unfriendly trading reputation. Qin Shi Huang obviosuly because the industrious trait will take all your wonders from you and protective to protect himself.

Oooooooh would that suck ( but in a bad way ). Sitting Bull might hold his own better than Tokugawa.

 

[Turquoiside]

Archiepelago, HC. This is because he is too awesome to really be hurt by anything else.

Izzy on Archiepelago too

Mongolia on any map that dosen't have horses. This applies to maps with sources soemtimes too.

 

[Rusty Edge]

^To work on that:

Brennus on a Huge Plains Map. UU rendered useless without hills. Charismatic and Spirutal the least helful traits for a Huge map with 3 civs. The other civs would be Tokugawa and Qin Shi Huang. Plus, the level would be Deity in order to make the civs survive.

Tokugawa because his warring traits to protect himself from the barbs and his unfriendly trading reputation. Qin Shi Huang obviosuly because the industrious trait will take all your wonders from you and protective to protect himself.

I might have to try that next game, just to find out .... probably a quick game.

But it might be educational.

 

[Matthew5117]

^Many you could give us a glimpse of how things turned out?

 

[Iranon]

Archiepelago, HC. This is because he is too awesome to really be hurt by anything else.

Izzy on Archiepelago too

Mongolia on any map that dosen't have horses. This applies to maps with sources soemtimes too.

HC might be less insanely overpowered than on maps where he can rush the snot out of his neighbours (terra!)... but he does pretty well on Archipelago maps. Prioritising the Great Lighthouse or the Oracle (for Metal Casting)+Colossus is quite strong. Getting all three is even better, so Industrious is quite useful.
All those coastal tiles - or all water tiles with the Colossus - will also give FIN quite a bit to work with.

 

[Rusty Edge]

^Many you could give us a glimpse of how things turned out?

1st game I made it until 3295 BC before I was overrun. 10 minutes.
55 points

2nd game I made it until 3145 BC.
59 points

3rd game I started in the upper right corner & settled on a hill on the eastern edge of the map. Animals ate my scouts early, couldn't fogbust my way onto the plains proper.
My teching sucked.
I hunkered down, built a dunn. I had one chance.

I went for the Great Wall, then decided to risk interrupting to build a worker. I sent him into the corner outside the border managed to complete a fifty hammer chop. Down to one CG III archer. I sent the worker for a 26 hammer chop, but he got interrupted by barbs... When the coast cleared I sent him back to complete it. I GOT THE WALL ! ( I know it's an exploit on huge/marathon single player because of the barb scaling problem, never mind raging ) .
About 1230 BC- The Japanese Civ has been destroyed!
I'm able to chop safely and almost have my first settler when...
1140 BC I've won a conquest victory 19,871 points.

I think I'll try it again, only this time it will be raging barbs, no wonders, and Bullseye instead of Quin.

 

[Matthew5117]

1st game I made it until 3295 BC before I was overrun. 10 minutes.
55 points

2nd game I made it until 3145 BC.
59 points

3rd game I started in the upper right corner & settled on a hill on the eastern edge of the map. Animals ate my scouts early, couldn't fogbust my way onto the plains proper.
My teching sucked.
I hunkered down, built a dunn. I had one chance.

I went for the Great Wall, then decided to risk interrupting to build a worker. I sent him into the corner outside the border managed to complete a fifty hammer chop. Down to one CG III archer. I sent the worker for a 26 hammer chop, but he got interrupted by barbs... When the coast cleared I sent him back to complete it. I GOT THE WALL ! ( I know it's an exploit on huge/marathon single player because of the barb scaling problem, never mind raging ) .
About 1230 BC- The Japanese Civ has been destroyed!
I'm able to chop safely and almost have my first settler when...
1140 BC I've won a conquest victory 19,871 points.

I think I'll try it again, only this time it will be raging barbs, no wonders, and Bullseye instead of Quin.

Whoops. Neither of them survived. Was this Deity though?

If not, you could always try Shaka and Ragnar. I hear they both have very high unit probs.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Whoops. Neither of them survived. Was this Deity though?

If not, you could always try Shaka and Ragnar. I hear they both have very high unit probs.

Yes, Diety. I did it again in the year 615 AD without any wonders. Both times I built on a river hill . And no, before I've never won on Monarch. Just a case of being the last man standing. Not easy, but not as impossible as I'd believed.

This game Sitting Bull went down to the barbs first. I did manage to hook up and defend iron, establish a second city ( forget it if you can't chop a wall ) and was halfway through the swordsman quest. I was going to go for Tofu CaCa then.

I will try Shaka and Ragnar next.

 

[Matthew5117]

Even better, you could do Shaka of Native Americans and Ragnar of Mali (or some other civilization that has a good archer).

 

[Rusty Edge]

Didn't try the mixed leaders yet , but I just finished Ragnar and Shaka.

I've learned that

1) Build your city on a hill or don't bother. A lot of the start locations on the Great Plains map have a hill nearby.

2) When you see you see your first barb human run for home and turtle up.


3)Get a wall before the Axeman cometh.

4) The build priorities are something like Warrior, warrior, archer or two, wall barracks, more archers. teching for archery, masonary, and then roads and Bronze/ Iron . As I recall, the only horses are in the middle of the map, so chariots are a false hope anytime soon.

5) Since you're forced to hide in the hills , The Dun isn't actually worthless. Your archers get the guerilla I out of the box.

 

[Rusty Edge]

I think I'm onto something .... better balanced.

I scrapped the Great Plains map and use Oasis instead.

Brennus against Tokugawa, Qin, Shaka and Sitting Bull. Still boatloads of barbs, but the A.I.s are doing a better job, lasting longer. I'll let you know how it turns out.