O-kay... at what point did I say that I ONLY play ToT Lalande and the Fantasy/Midgard games? Hmm? I have said I prefer these. But I also play regular Civ II.
Excuse me for not knowing your particular lingo for everything. I don't make scenarios. I am not a modder. I've never participated in the Game of the Whatever. I don't upload or download stuff.
All I know is that playing Lalande requires DIFFERENT strategy because the tech tree is DIFFERENT, depending on whether you play humans or aliens.
Moderator Action: I hoped my first warning was enough of getting back to the original discussion. It was not. This thread will be closed for a couple of days so everybody can calm down. I will edit some posts that contain texts that were not needed.
Because I like early landing, I always give all my Tech away to Purple you pay less in tech carrying costs. If you start with a few techs they do not count as Carry techs so say you started with 4 techs - thats lucky, and gave them away all your tech to purple you will pay heaps less beakers for your next tech.
On another current thread it has been discussed how you can flip into communism or back to monarchy for the cost of your first city revolting. With this in mind stealing tech in Faux Democracy is a lot easier ideally you want other civs discovering tech that you can acquire and all the better they build Dawin's save us the 400 shields at a time when Leonado's needs building. I would love to be able to give just the techs I want each civ to have but as I only have a choice of two I just give away all tech. I think if you play it right know how to cheaply guard against sneak attacks it always works out fine.
When i play i have the same tech plan each time. i don't usually decide what game type i'm playing until the end. I always get elephants very early. And always go for tanks even if i'm playing space race.
1. Monarchy. Reason: Become a monarchy.
2. Masonry. Reason: Build pyramids. (this can be skipped, but it suits my style).
3. Democracy! Reason: Build Statue of Liberty, and become Communist! early in the game!
Yes. I have tried higher levels, and even survived to the end of the game a couple of times on Deity, but I'm not good enough to routinely play at the higher levels.
Regardless, I try to get Railroad as soon as possible, for the incredibly fast movement and ease of trade (and troops/spies). Not to mention Darwin's Voyage is a really nice Wonder, and should always be denied to one's enemies...
"I try to get Railroad as soon as possible, for the incredibly fast movement and ease of trade (and troops/spies)."
You do not understand trade, and thus it would be hard at deity!
RR is usually the LAST thing to get, not the FIRST. At this point in the game, you can be getting one advance per turn, provided you set your science to zero and have Democracy run properly, including your caravans. Its resource management. High science rates tend to slow down your discovery rates in most well-played PD games. Fundamentalism is better for science than Communism. Yes, all those are correct, though counter-intuitive for what Brian mean for you think.
The key trade events are: Navigation/Invention, RR, Flight.
For the first 200 game turns, the Trade Bonus is 200% of normal. If either Navigation or Invention are discovered (by anyone) before turn 200, the TB is reduced to "normal". This in effect cuts your TB in H-A-L-F.
RR hammers a fast burner two ways... it cancels the HG (Hanging Gardens), which means you must raise Lux, and reduce Tax (your science is locked to Zero and you do not research science of course). And it slashes your many Caravans by 33% TB. This means a Caravan that was worth 300g +300s, is now worth only 200g+200s.
You have to plan to slingshot through RR and use Darwin to catapult you immediately into Corporation to mitigate the adverse effects of long distance trade with the advent of RR.
BTW, You use Marco Polo to screw up the AI to ensure they do not trigger Nav/Inv/RR/Flt before you are fully prepared. The human conducts the game with Marco Polo.
Automobile is essential ASAP. You must have the SH, combined with Colossus especially. After Auto, you have your 5,000 to 8,000 gold ready to buy all the important SHs the next turn, and not squander valuable cargo. Flight is the last... the very absolute last advance you obtain, because TB is ripped to shreds... down to 33% of normal value. Which is of course why you discover Flight and Radio on the same turn if possible, and all key airports are bought/completed the next turn before further freight deliveries (except to AI which have no airports).
Civ 2 is actually simple. It accustoms a player to a "norm" of early government, and due to rigid thinking (e.g., you have supposed 'common sense' from experience in Monarchy), the sudden shift to Rep/Dem does 'not work' because no prep is made for the step up.
As example, Monarchy rewards players for excessive spam units, like warriors controlling happiness and free support for 3. Then comes Democracy, and players with pathetic small monarchy villlages making 7 or 9 shields, suddenly see they are paying 3 or 4 support, red citizens due to units away, and they think Lux are a 'waste' (as a jack-booted Monarchy thug), and conclude Democracy is for hippies whining for peace.
In Democracy, after a few turns, a size 6 Monarchy village becomes size 16, 18, or 20+. 30 turns after Democracy, you should have about 400% more shields, and 3000% to 4000% more gold income. Food no longer matters much, as long as you have 1 excess when needed to grow. Few people make enough Engineers, which is key to trade income and trade bonus (proper roads and RRs).
"I try to get Railroad as soon as possible, for the incredibly fast movement and ease of trade (and troops/spies)."
You do not understand trade, and thus it would be hard at deity!
RR is usually the LAST thing to get, not the FIRST. At this point in the game, you can be getting one advance per turn, provided you set your science to zero and have Democracy run properly, including your caravans. Its resource management. High science rates tend to slow down your discovery rates in most well-played PD games. Fundamentalism is better for science than Communism. Yes, all those are correct, though counter-intuitive for what Brian mean for you think.
I don't use Democracy much. I tend to go Monarchy - Republic - Fundamentalism and switch among them as necessary. I will use Communism when it suits the circumstances.
The key trade events are: Navigation/Invention, RR, Flight.
For the first 200 game turns, the Trade Bonus is 200% of normal. If either Navigation or Invention are discovered (by anyone) before turn 200, the TB is reduced to "normal". This in effect cuts your TB in H-A-L-F.
RR hammers a fast burner two ways... it cancels the HG (Hanging Gardens), which means you must raise Lux, and reduce Tax (your science is locked to Zero and you do not research science of course). And it slashes your many Caravans by 33% TB. This means a Caravan that was worth 300g +300s, is now worth only 200g+200s.
You have to plan to slingshot through RR and use Darwin to catapult you immediately into Corporation to mitigate the adverse effects of long distance trade with the advent of RR.
BTW, You use Marco Polo to screw up the AI to ensure they do not trigger Nav/Inv/RR/Flt before you are fully prepared. The human conducts the game with Marco Polo.
Automobile is essential ASAP. You must have the SH, combined with Colossus especially. After Auto, you have your 5,000 to 8,000 gold ready to buy all the important SHs the next turn, and not squander valuable cargo. Flight is the last... the very absolute last advance you obtain, because TB is ripped to shreds... down to 33% of normal value. Which is of course why you discover Flight and Radio on the same turn if possible, and all key airports are bought/completed the next turn before further freight deliveries (except to AI which have no airports).
Are you suggesting I should want trade bonuses instead of a means to get off a tiny island if that's my starting place and the nearest land is more than 4 tiles away? Trade bonuses are pointless if there's nobody to trade with!
I don't often get the Hanging Gardens while it's still good for something. And of course I plan for Railroads and Darwin's Voyage. Same with Invention. Naturally, I do anything and everything to ensure I get Marco Polo AND take full advantage of it.
By saying Flight is the very last advance to get... are you saying you don't support going on the space flight and building a ship?
Few people make enough Engineers, which is key to trade income and trade bonus (proper roads and RRs).
I should first caveat all my posts with something like this... there are many many possible successful ways and methods to win any game, including Deity games. There is rarely a question of whether or not a human can win the game, but rather how fast and how strong.
As a footnote, the reason why is simple: the AI is just not programmed to allow AI "thinking", but uses mechanisms to mimic "thinking" to entertain the human (it does this pretty well actually). My context is almost always how to become faster and more efficient, usually as measured by power of civilization and speed of finish.
I don't use Democracy much. I tend to go Monarchy - Republic - Fundamentalism and switch among them as necessary. I will use Communism when it suits the circumstances.
You don't need trade (or democracy) at all to win, but using trade (& PD) will make you stronger, sooner .
Are you suggesting I should want trade bonuses instead of a means to get off a tiny island if that's my starting place and the nearest land is more than 4 tiles away? Trade bonuses are pointless if there's nobody to trade with!
Yes. Those trade bonuses are so powerful, that a small island start is one of the strongest possible starts. The main disadvantage (and it can be quite major) is that you don't have major quantities of huts to find in early game.
Trireme trade is "slow", but offset by the huge carrot (reward) if you can prioritize it early. Small island often means direct early Republic, peace, huge cities fast, and possibly tech tree done before 1000 AD (diety). For a SS win, aim for landing before 1000 AD.
If there is a nearby AI civ, you will get 100% (overseas) + 100% (foriegn civ) + 100% (Before GT200, before Nav, Before Inv) = 300% bonus added to each caravan.
Further, if you Celebrate in a Monarchy, then you gain the benefits of the next higher form of government (republic), including reduced corruption (arrows) and reduced waste (shields). This has the effect of roughly doubling early game trade (since each terrain that produces a trade arrow will produce another in Republic).
By adding Colossus, you not only make it easier to celebrate, but you add yet another trade arrow per trade tile. In early game before Navigation, this is huge.
With the Colossus, you can accomplish the same trade caravan value to much closer located AI civs.
Spoiler:
1. The trade bonus delivery is computed:
B = (D + 10) * (Source + Destination) / 24
B = Base initial bonus (gold, and also the same amount in beakers).
D = Distance between the source and destination city (diagonals are 1.5)
Source = # of base trade arrows in home city of caravan/freight (total arrows minus the 3 trade route's arrows; Corrupt base arrows do not count).
Destination = # of base trade arrows in the destination city (ditto).
Another way of expressing this is :
D = (24*B)/(Source + Destination) - 10
2. As you might see, the Colossus adds to the Source (or destination) base arrows. You can't really change the AI's arrows (you can use a unit to sit on low trade terrain they are using if you really want to, however, and force the AI to move its workers). BUT you can indeed select a destination at a greater distance.
Example:
Assume you have a size 9 colossus city, which generates 30 base arrows. This can be a celebrating Monarchy with Colossus, and 3+ arrows per tile (bonus and rivers usually add a few extra). The destination is an AI city with 10 arrows (any corrupt arrows do not count). It is 10 tiles away.
(10+10)*(30+10)/24=33.3=33. This is the "base initial bonus", to which multipliers are used.
What if you have no Colossus? How to "make up" for that loss (e.g, get a delivery of the same value without having Colossus)?
So, if you simply deliver the caravan to a city that is 7 more tiles away, you'll make up the loss of bonus due to no Colossus.
GOTM 018/069 can be good to look at, there is a lot of trade discussion. 018 began with heavy trireme trade early. Here is a map of the routes of mid game 018, but the early game were triremes to the closest cities, and expanded as the game progressed.
Spoiler:
By saying Flight is the very last advance to get... are you saying you don't support going on the space flight and building a ship?
No, not at all. I'm saying you will make a SS faster and your civ will be stronger if you do, in most cases. If a player is pursing proper trade throughout the early and mid game, then this will expand your lead with the AI. If a player has no infrastructure, no routes in progress (roads, ports, ships, Freight ready and in position, ships & Engineers & dips/spies to force their way into hostile lucrative ocean trade areas, proper city improvements built, large trade arrow heavy cities, etc.), then it will not work to suddenly delay Flight. The reason for the delay is to ensure you can keep zero science set and produce gold to rush buy things you need, and take advantage of the GOLD+SCIENCE that each caravan/freight produces.
If you deliver a given Freight just before Flight and it produces say 600 gold (and of course 600 science), but in fact wait until after flight, then that same Freight will only produce 300/300 (all other things being equal). Since you will deliver freight until enough science for an advanced each turn, it will initially take twice as many freight to obtain the same science after Flight.
Since in this case (of taking Flight too soon) it means you have not yet researched some of the advances you can do without flight, you must now "pay twice as much" in terms of freight, to gain an advance. In effect, your science rate is slashed in half (slowed by 2X) with Flight. It is Caravans/Freight, not the science slider, that in mid game gives you one advance per turn.
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Trade bonuses are pointless if there's nobody to trade with!
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