When or when Not to use Capitalization?

[Dendar]

A few questions about capitalization:

It must be there for a reason, but I personally never use it. I'm usually too busy covering my butt in the military department, or building up my stockpile of cool attack toys like howitzers, and that's only when I get to the modern age, which certainly isn't always.

I always assumed Capitalization was an inefficient waste of resources, and using it was a sign of economic decay. But recently I've read Starlifter's and others' posts on super-governments and ultra-efficient economic growth. Up to now, I've thought of myself as a fairly good economist, and am usually delighted to have a tech advance rate of 1/8 to 1/16. Reading about one-per-turn tech advances and thousand-gold incomes makes me wonder: am I missing something here? Is capitalization ever a good option?

 

[Dark Ascendant]

It's probably worth more to build and ship caravans between large cities with lots of trade arrows from both. Build freights from everywhere you can, rehome if needed for maximum bonus, and ship out with ship chains. This will probably give tons of more cash and beakers than capitalization.

 

[duke o' york]

DA's da man in this case!
It is always better to build caravans than capitalisation as long as your city can produce more than just food as trading goods. For uranium, an extreme case I know, the fifty shields required for a caravan can be converted into up to 4000 gold and science. Even with the undemanded rubbishy commodities like salt and beads, late game freights can give 300 or so bonuses for a turn's worth or production in a large city. That's between 6 and 80 bonus for each shield compared to just one gold with capitalisation. This can keep you in rushbuying mood for many years indeed.

 

[funxus]

The capitalisation gold is also added after MP, Banks and SE - the money is not invested anywhere.
Sometimes it's smarter to maybe take a worker off a square and let him collect taxes instead. A railroaded forest would give you three shields - 3g with capitalisation and as a taxcollector that is 3g too, but with SE you'd get 7

 

[ferenginar]

See Civ II general for capitalisation for what Titi has to say about using it as a shield store for wonders.

ferenginar 100

 

[starlifter]

To follow up on Duke's post, consider this:

Two freight cost about 120 gold each to rush build from a 1-shield city. Deliver them carefully, and get say, a measly 1,000 gold for them. You will have an entire advance with the 2,000 beakers, plus the 2,000 gold will rush buy 3 veteran BATTLESHIPs from a size 1, one shield city (which of course has a port facility). Or, you can build a whole army of Armor or Stealth Fighters .


But.... in mid an late game, you do need a good Navy and military to protect those carvans & freight. I like to deliver them right to the most valuable enemy cities, as that is where the largest bonuses are until your own cities have Superhighways and Airports!!

 

[Marlos]

Capitalization is a way of usefully "turning off" production in a city.

I recall from my Civ1 days that at the end of the game, when your ship was on its way and the other civs had been sufficiently bashed to a pulp, there was nothing to produce. It was just silly to keep producing military units when you already had fleets of them around the world and your cities were completely improved.

When they came up with Civ2, Capitalization was put in for this purpose. Your cities do not have to produce anything (other than gold) if they have everything.

If you play maximum games (as I tend to do), you MUST have Capitalization! Managing 250+ cities is tiring!

 

[MajorGeneral2]

It's a bit silly to use when you've stuff to produce and already have a healthy economy. However, if you can get a city to produce tons of shields, it can give lots of cash instead. This applies mostly to terrain production-boosted scenarios, but one can usually find a good spot for such a city in a regular game.
As mentioned, though, it's best for "turning off" a city's production.

 

[Dendar]

Originally posted by starlifter

.... in mid an late game, you do need a good Navy and military to protect those carvans & freight. I like to deliver them right to the most valuable enemy cities, as that is where the largest bonuses are until your own cities have Superhighways and Airports!!

Wait a minute... does being at war with your trade partner increase revenue? Because I always thought war for a trading-style civ was a Bad Thing ... Do diplomatic relations make any difference in profit?

P.S.: How the #@&%*!!! do you get 500 gold from one caravan?! I'm usually happy with 50! (at least in ancient times)

 

[starlifter]

by Dendar:

Wait a minute... does being at war with your trade partner increase revenue? Because I always thought war for a trading-style civ was a Bad Thing ... Do diplomatic relations make any difference in profit?

War and Diplomacy do not directly affect trade computations. AI Gov't often does, though. If you are at war with the city you deliver freight to, it is a dead-bang guarantee that the city does not belong to you, and thus will get 100% of its base bonus value. It you deliver to your own city, the bonus is slashed in HALF. Half of say, 700, is 350... and that is just the gold (you also lose 350 science). After Radio, it's time to start trading with yourself, because you will have the massive bonuses due to Superhighways and Airports in your gigantic, high-trade Democratic cities. They puny, backwater AI cities will not even hae reached Corporation, much less Auto (& have built SHs) and Radio (& built Airports). But if you were to find a faraway Rep/Dem AI city with an Airport and SH... don't kill it... the amount of gold/sci you get will max out on every delivery, and it is not unusual to get in excess of 3,000 per freight (and over 1,000 for just junk).

So to be sure... war does not increase trade value... but if you play MGE and reign as Supreme, you're likely not gong to ahve late game peace... so it is a given that you must get that freight thru the front line and to the ideal enemy city... and you might as well let your mighty freight kill the toughest AI Partisans by blocking their formation along the way (as you conquer the AI cities).

P.S.: How the #@&%*!!! do you get 500 gold from one caravan?! I'm usually happy with 50! (at least in ancient times)

Yeah, you're right. 500 is a bit low... I like to get more than that, but usually have to wait until about 1 AD or so. A general goal is to deliver at least a few 2,000 gold freight in a game. It's not too awful hard to hit 3,000, but 4,000 takes a large map and the right AI cities.

Trade bonus is a function primarily of distance, trade arrows (not counting arrows due to routes) of both cities, and of course half a dozen other things. For big bonuses, sent the caravans to a faraway AI city on a different continent. It is worth the effort! But it will take 20 to 30 ships to do it, and lots of planning.

Shhh! You didn't hear it from me, but there might be some super-duper secrets here.

 

[Dark Ascendant]

Capitalization is not equal to freights in gold but it has a purpose. In short, it reduces the stress of micromanagement and allows you to put some tax revenues elsewhere.

 

[SunTzu]

Ok someone point me to the posts about super-governments and ultra-efficient economic growth. Because i just started playing SP games again Scenario's have kept me busy lately. And i'm starting back on the Gotm and right now i suck at civ lol. so i need to re-learn everything...

 

[duke o' york]

Basically look at the link to the Secret stuff in starlifter's sig. I have no idea why he has somehow decided that it is all secret but it's all good stuff!

 

[GenMarshall]

I use Capitalalization when I do not have any Improvements to build . I Think that is a good reason to use Capitalization.

 

[starlifter]

Basically look at the link to the Secret stuff in starlifter's sig. I have no idea why he has somehow decided that it is all secret but it's all good stuff!

I have discovered that if you call it "acronyms", no one reads it. Call it "secret", and people beat a path...

 

[kmad]

if you have like 900 cities and you dont wanna waste time every turn sending 900 caravans to other cities then capitalization is better

 

[Dark Ascendant]

Originally posted by kmad
if you have like 900 cities and you dont wanna waste time every turn sending 900 caravans to other cities then capitalization is better

For reducing the stress of micromanagement yes, but not nessesarily in making profit and tech advances.

If there is truely nothing left to be built, or if there's "900" cities, developed, developing, or undeveloped, switch between building trade units or capitalizing in developed cities when commodities are freed up and tied up. All cities use the cold-hard cash of their developed neighbors to rush-build anything they need and join their bloated brethren. Cash doesn't directly score score points so spend, spend, spend. Celebrate or food caravan to bring up the pop. of the cities once terrain squares are improved and improvements are ready in the developing/undeveloped catogory.

Gotta love the late game after your foes have been sufficiently pounded flat, accepted their pitiful role as a play-thing for your superior armed forces and espionage services, obiedient in their proper upbringing as "slaves of the decadent ____ civilization" and can only cower to your imperialistic demands and expansionist views. The world can go thermonuclear, if you wish it to...

 

[Blitz79]

Erm... Am I missing stuff here? What does an Airport do to increase trade? And why does a caravan give you gold AND science when it first reaches the city? I didn't know that..
And what's all this stuff about having 250 cities? Is this for real? Have I been sleeping?...

 

[duke o' york]

The airport does not increase cash or science in the same way as the marketplace and library do, but it does add a multiplier to your trade bonus when you deliver a caravan or freight to and from a city that has one. Go and find a post by starlifter (there're three in this thread alone) and go to the secrets bit in his sig where you will learn all you need to know about everything and some more that you didn't think you'd need to know but might be grateful for knowing later on.

 

[Blitz79]

Cheers for that. Some really cool advice. GOTM and OCC are new words to me - I see I have a lot of new stuff to learn despite playing this game for all these years... ngh!