when to switch up from despotism and to what? (kinda long)

[ThePrankMonkey]

in my last three games rather going straight for republic and switching to that form of government ive stuck with despotism longer and its helped me win big a larger margine.

first i dont have to pay for any units under the 4 units per city rule in despotism so with my capitol i usually build 4 warriors send three in opposite directions to find good spots for my future cities and then build a settler(the fourth warrior i fortify). after that i build another settler and another settler(making the capitol a settler factory if its next to a river watch out!). during this i make no money because i cranked my scientific research to maximum so i make no money but i whiz through techs faster than the AI can keep up and im still able to expand as long as i keep my units with the 4 per city rule. with the next cities i build since i already have a warrior waiting i build a worker and then 2 spearman (by this time ive discovered bronze working) and then build walls and great wonders, no temples or anything that will cost me money. or if the city isnt in an ideal location for building great wonders quickly i set them to build wealth.

NOW i'm making money and still have my research on maximum. usually i go for all the techs that allow me to build a wonder, since i cant stand letting the AI build them this is how i do my research. somewhere between leonardos workshop and the banking tech i switch over to republic and start building improvements in ALL of my cities (i build some now and then before this, just to expand my borders where i think its needed, especially for luxuries and resources). then i build banks and i start to recover from having to pay for all my units now. when i swtch to republic i have to set my research back to like 50-60% and sometimes back as far as 40% and my tech research slows down. and in my last game i met the aztecs and made the mistake of giving 75 GPT for their world map. that made me research invention for 22 turns. it slowed me down greatly and gave the other civs a chance to catch up to me. i was mad at myself for not paying attention. now i check double check and triple check is doesnt say GPT.

by the time i hit the industrial age i have a nice sized military force (mostly defensive units unless another civ declared war on me) at least a 10 tech lead (or in some cases a whole period gap in knowledge) a nice sizable income and a large civ.

when do you switch governments? to which one and why? i have only used three governments with civ III and PTW, despotism, republic and democracy. is monarchy a good gonverment to use before using democracy? honestly i dont see much difference between republic and deomcracy except you make a tad more money with democracy.

i think i have a pretty good system for building my civ up (i play japan EVERY time), however switching goverments is killing me because i have to readjust everything and watch my income closely and sometimes delay building improvements until i can afford it. i hate letting the AI get a tech lead because i find they like to play bully when they do and i dont give in to threats and demands. in case you havent noticed yet i dont like the AI to have much of anything but a black eye, hurt feelings and a hard way to go. i have also found building a worker for every city as soon as the city is founded helps me make more money faster. i keep forgetting tiles with roads especially to mountains with gold= money. but even that doesnt help ease the hit i get from paying nothing for my units to paying for 40-50-60 units (4 per city, you do the math), i go from about 30 per turn to like negative 70 per turn and i wind up slowing down my research to keep from going broke.

aside from the government issue i'd like to hear a little feedback about how i build my civ. im trying to build it everytime as puickly and as efficiently as possible. i sure would like to exchange ideas and strategies (not necessarily military strategies).

btw in my latest game im winning by a rather obnoxiously large margine, like a 250 point lead in histography. i was still building cities in AD and i share this "island" (more like a large continent with tentacles) with not one, not two, not three but FOUR other civs why they didnt expand that much is kinda puzzling me.

 

[Tassadar]

If most of your city is over size 6 then monarchy will give same # of free units while you corruption go down and production go up. So i would say that once your basic infrastructure is built ( temple ,library.marketplace aqueduc, coliseum,courthouse), then switch to republic or monarchy ( depend if you want to declare war or stay a peacfull builder).

So my advice is always plane your strategy to reach an advence form of governement once the primary building phase is done.

IMO despotism is worker time ( there is so much irrigation, road, mine to built )

 

[Turner]

I used to head straight for Republic, myself, and hope to get Monarchy out of a goody hut. Now I go for Monarchy and take/buy what I can get from gh's/civs. . . Still not sure which one works out best for me. Generally, once I get Republic, I stay there. Rarely do I use Democracy anymore, since I tend to warmonger late in the game.

It's a tough choice. Do you deal with the extra six turns of Anarchy, or do deal with getting to Republic taking longer than Monarchy. Really, that's the question, is how soon can you get out of Despotism. For me, the sooner the better.

I have noticed the last couple of times I've played that Warrior Code and Ceramonial Burial costs as much as Alphabet. This has a lot to do with the civs I'm playing against (just the luck of the RNG) so now I"m of the mindset to start out with whichever is 'cheaper'. . .

 

[YNCS]

Maybe it's just me, but I like going to Republic right away. I pick up Ceremonial Burial first (otherwise unhappiness holds down production in the largest cities) and then straight to Republic. I usually pick up Warrior Code out of a goody hut, along with Pottery and, if I'm really lucky, Philosophy.

While in Despotism I set Entertainment to 10% and Science to 90%. My workers road each worked square so my gold is usually positive. If gold is negative I just hope the next hut gives me 25 gold or that I find a barbarian encampment to capture.

Works for me.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Monarchy is a very nice government while going to war. Keep going, do pointy stick research, then go for Republic once you want to consolidate your terrain

I often find that i am so close to Demo by then i simply wing it until then.

 

[Cannon]

Like Tassadar said, if you wait until your cities are above size 6, you'll get the same amount of unit support as the despot when you switch to Monarchy. However, the biggest difference you'll notice is the increase in production. (no shield penalty in Monarchy) I highly recommend this, especially when playing the Japanese. (Revolution only takes 1 turn).

With this extra production you'll find it easy to beat the A.!. to key wonders (I play on Regent), while building your own improvements, beefing up your military, etc. Don't forget to take advantage of mined hills (3 shields in Monarchy) especially if they have iron (even more shields)

I generally switch to Republic when most of my cities are size 9-12
because you need lots of citizen tax money to pay your rampaging horde. This is easier done with a religious civ (duh) and requires more careful thought if you'll be in 6 turns of anarchy (finish your current wonders first)

Anyways, happing civing!

 

[Scyphax]

I normally go

Despotism -> Monarchy -> Democracy or

Despotism -> Republic -> Democracy

I don't care what goverment I get as long as I am out of depotism as fast as possible.

If I am going for a culture win I often go for monarchy as you get the ability to build a temple and Oracle along the way.

I also like horses and Warrior code is required for Monarchy and Horsemanship.

So generally I go for Monarchy but if goodie huts and trades get me closer to Republic I go for that.

After I have one I ignore the other as a dead end tech and head for democracy.

 

[Padma]

Sounds like my strategy, Scyphax.

I get out of Despotism as soon as possible! Either Monarchy or Republic is good, depending on what techs I get from goody huts and trades. I prefer Republic, so I often research towards Monarchy, and let huts and trades drive my development to Republic. (This with a low (40-turn) research rate.)

 

[cromagnon]

The only reason I will delay switching out of Despotism is if I'm in a race for a wonder with the AI, and I'm a non-religious civ. I've lost too many wonder races in less than 4 turns to risk it.

 

[Grey Fox]

Sometimes when I'm not playing a Religious Civ, I use Despotism all the way to Democracy.

The reason can be that there is no good time to switch until then, as I might be building wonders, and I don't want to switch during that. Or I'm in the middle of a war, and I don't want to loose production. Or I just want to use the whip some more. Sometimes in a combo with that research goes so fast that I never feel ready to switch to Republic or Monarchy (with infrastructure etc) until I reach Democracy.

 

[anarres]

On the higher levels writing / literature / polytheism are the techs the AI doesn't go for, so these are the ones to research over 40 turns and sell. The government you want should have very little impact on this, they are almost independant (not including island maps, or huge ones with few trading partners).

Having said that, every time I go for Monarchy I can't but help feel a little cheated when I convert and find my GPT suffering.

Under republic, you have to have at nearly all the tiles used already producing one gold already to counter the necessary lux increase, but it nearly always is better in terms of GPT. Even if the immediate change is not better, marketplaces soon multiply the extra GPT you get from Republic, meaning it will soon be better.

Also remember that although you get the policing bonus under monarchy, this is of little use when you are actually at war and need to attack enemy cities, leaving your homeland with few troops (if any). Some people talk about the police units being useful when you take a city, but generally you should be starving them anyway, why do you need police units?

One last point in favour of Republic: less corruption, a fair bit less too.

I'm not sure I can think of any more reasons to go Despotism -> Republic, but there must be some. There seem to be pretty few reasons to go to Monarchy IMO.

Democracy is useful, but only for long-term goals. If there is a chance to finish off the opposition quickly, I sometimes avoid it all togehther. Otherwise I go straight for it in the middle ages and change immediately (unless Cav are needed real quick...)

So many if's and but's in my games, the one thing I usually keep firm on is my choice of government, simply because only *very* special game situations could change my tactics.

 

[Tassadar]

Annares

Military police into captured city are very good ( under monarchy), lets say you have about 4 luxuries, so with 3 military police it is much easier to create we love the king day ( WLKD) and increase production ( to built courthouse ), it is almost impossible to get a WLKD in a corrupted city under republic.

So if you are in a long war ( like i do ) to conquiere all your continent early and built up lots of city, then monarchy rock, i tell you.

On regent level i am able to control all my continent ( conqiere 2-3 a.i. ) with knight by 800-1000 ad, swithch to democraty when you got some infrastructure in all your city and then you find yourself searching industrial tech in 4 turn and make a few hundred gold per turn in excess.

Conqiere early with monarchy, creat WLKD to boost production, built city improvement, switch to democraty, nothing will stop you, all the ressource on your continent is yours ( like 3-4 iron, salpeter, coal, oil, name it ).

 

[anarres]

Tassadar:

I play on Deity, and at that level you are often 3 or 4 times behind in culture. Under these circumstances you have to starve cities if you want to keep them, there is no other way. When you are starving a city military police mean nothing. Literally nothing, since your troops should be outside the city ready to retake it if it flips.

I would guess at Regent GPT is not as important too, but on Deity you *must* have a decent GPT to keep up in tech (there is a 140% penalty for all your techs). Monarchy just doesn't cut it at all, even with many units. If you really have so many units that it is costing more than you are getting (and that is a *lot* of units), then you should be at war using them, otherwise you are being *very* sub-optimal with your production.

 

[phizuol]

For Monarchy just make sure most of your cities are size 7+ which for me usually means sometime after the start of Middle Ages. The key is not to rush into it. I find a good time is right about when I want to switch from Horsemen to Knights as I can disband a lot of the Horsemen if my unit support costs are too high in Monarchy. I usually stay in Monarchy till the end. My last game I had a space victory in Monarchy and had 39,000 gold in the bank (on Regent.)

The fun thing about Monarchy is you can make captured cities useful right away. As soon as you take them its automatically worth 2, 4, or 8 gold due to unit support. With your military police you can usually get the people to behave in a few turns then rush a temple, marketplace, and courthouse. If the city is ultra-corrupt at least the people are still making food instead of entertainment because pop = $$. If you can get WLKD you might even be able to start building some things.

I know Monarchy isn't the "best" government, but I like it. I enjoy both the benefits and the disadvantages. Afterall, its great to be the king. My people support all the decisions I make... or else.

 

[Tassadar]

I much prefer to keep foreighner alive and create WLKD, the production boost you got is much better than starving ( population mean power so why kill them by starvation while you can use them to built city improvement).

/ military police mean 3 contented citizen for 0 $ , nothing is better than that to create happiness at low cost. Happiness on higher level can be easily control with mp under monarchy so spending 0 % lux slider. Republic, you need 20 % at least on emperor to keep a decent size city ( without war) and you pay for every units. Forget sistine or bach on emperor too so you mp worth a lot.

 

[Praetorian]

DEPOTISM==>anarchy==>Monarchy

OR

D E S P O T I S M

:worshp: :worshp: :worshp: :worshp:

 

[ThePrankMonkey]

ive played a couple more games and i tried monarchy. i didnt like it at all so i went from despotism to republic to democracy. in another game i went from despotism to democracy and for some reason i didnt see a big penalty for having to pay for my units. i actually broke even and started making money the next turn. i think that was a fluke though. i'll try it out a few more times and see what happens.

 

[O_o]

Guys do u win high lvl AI with those tactics ? it seems kinda bad T.T

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by CivIIenthusiast
ive played a couple more games and i tried monarchy. i didnt like it at all so i went from despotism to republic to democracy. in another game i went from despotism to democracy and for some reason i didnt see a big penalty for having to pay for my units. i actually broke even and started making money the next turn. i think that was a fluke though. i'll try it out a few more times and see what happens.

You said you didnt like it, but why. Monarchy is for war and conquest, when i mean war i mean unstoping until you have conquier all your continent. You never be able to do that under republic ( war weariness, no military police ).

If you dont want waring then keep a small soldier force as a deterant and switch republic.

Managing when to wage war, units cost and governement are essential to succeed.

 

[[GoD]Toxic]

Always finish rushing and switch to republic. Couldnt be easier