Where Do I Go From Here (soliciting in-game advice) (Louis XIV, Warlords)

[Lost Soul 1]

Setup: Warlords (I’ve bought BTS, just haven’t switched yet), Prince, Terra, Standard, 6 AIs, no vassalization

I’m playing as Louis XIV (personal challenge—I can’t seem to win with him…yet)

Progress to date: Good REXing/warring has basically knocked out three AIs (Huayna, Stalin, Cyrus); stormed into 1500 or so with tech, land, pop leads…but have slowed since then. I’d like to head for a conquest/domination victory, if possible. I don’t have Rifling yet to capably counter Cavalry…but it’s next up on the list of techs.

Remaining AI status:

 Augustus Caesar: pretty much hemmed-in land-wise, no Astronomy (yet) to settle other (New World) content; zoomed to Rifling to keep my invasion intentions in check; considerable Riflemen protecting cities (in comparison to my attack strength); sent a large contingent of older-tech attack forces up to neutralize Stalin, but I beat him to two cities (one kept, one razed); still has SoD in northern part of my lands (near Orleans/St. Petersburg); recently started building/upgrading to Grenadiers too; Tiwanaku (sp?) flipped a few turns ago (ugh!) which gave him $$ of gold when he quickly built the Hindu shrine

 Montezuma: has been war-free since beginning; relatively land-poor (compared to the other three remaining leaders); has been in “have hands full” mode for some time now, but no declaration of war against anyone (any of the us three are likely, with Alexander and Louis—me—the probables); recently started building/upgrading to Cavalry; no Astronomy to settle New World (yet); Annoyed with Augustus but pretty far away and seriously outnumbered (soldier-wise) to attack; recent changed to Buddhism from previous Jewish (odd move)

 Alexander: had a long war (not very productive) with Cyrus (I joined in a couple of times); considerably behind tech-wise; probably overstretched his empire maintenance capabilities (and is paying for it); most likely invasion/attack target for me (Louis), but he has maintained sizable mounted forces (War Elephants, Horse Archers) in two lower cities (near my conquered former-Persian cities); other cities are lightly defended; good trading, money-giving partner so far

So, here’s my question: what to do next (I’d prefer not to sit on the sidelines for the next 100 years) since it’s already 1630?

My options (all involving some form of attacking and land annexation):

(1) Attack Alexander: Probably the easiest to do in execution, but I worry about either Monty or Augustus declaring war on me to pick off some of my cities while I’m busy with Alex. I could probably handle both Monty and Alex simultaneously if I could be assured Augustus wouldn’t want to join in to get some prime French real estate (Cuzco); land is OK nearest to French western borders; southern border cities are no great shakes, but if I raze them, Augustus will surely re-settle; severely crippling/eliminating Alex brings the inevitability of war with Monty much, much closer (figuratively and literally).

(2) Attack Monty (he’s up to something anyway): Would have to go through his friend’s land (Alex) to attack a so-so “empire.” His current soldier force/count is nothing to be worried about, but he is amassing now that he has Military Tradition and is probably headed for Rifling next. Land is OK, but no great shakes. My main motivation for DoW on Monty is to eliminate him (better sooner than later). Again, dogpiling of Augustus or Alex is a concern if I focus most of my forces on Monty (who has a choke point available for accessing his NW peninsula—outlying islands are not that enticing for warring). I really think Augustus would use the Monty-Louis war as a chance to annex some close-lying French cities with his growing force of Riflemen and Grenadiers.

(3) Attack Augustus: I’ve been hoping/planning to do this for centuries, but he once he got Rifling (sooner than I imagined) and quickly upgraded his existing soldiers, I’ve been somewhat stuck on “maybe soon;” surprisingly, he declared war on Stalin (probably to do a bit of northern expansion and snag the horses), but I closely monitored his sizable SoD’s movement and coat-tailed it to swoop in at the last moment (literally) to seize Moscow and raze Novograd from his forces; currently has an 18+ SoD stalled in some forest near the NE corner of my empire (I’m monitoring and ready to attack with a sufficient amount of Grenadiers and Cavalry, if necessary); I’ve dug in along our borders, but don’t feel I have enough to competently (and safely attack many of his cities) without risking a crushing depletion of forces—thereby allowing Augustus to waltz in to take some of my cities with his remaining Riflemen and Grenadiers—or having Monty and/or Alex dogpile from the west to set up a two-front war scenario; Augustus is relatively close in soldier strength (more concentrated than French forces) and has dug in pretty well in most of his cities with upgraded Riflemen; he’s hemmed in and will most likely want to expand soon—Louis is by far the closest target since I’m only “Cautious” with him, while the only other viable target (besides Cyrus’ lone, not too great city) is Alex; I need to DoW on him soon if I want to contain his sizable out-of-Roman-region (thus no upgradeable) SoD

OK, long explanation…sorry…I’ve included a save (reminder this is a v2.13 Warlords game). I need some “what would you do” (soon) advice. (I’d prefer not to have someone report back what they encountered by playing 5-10 turns and then suggesting a plan of attack, if possible.)

Attack Alex (probably what I’ll do and hope I can hold off Monty or—ugh!—Augustus)?

Attack Monty (and hope Augustus doesn’t dogpile) to eliminate him once and for all?

Attack Augustus to stop his menacing growth/power/threat?

Thanks, in advance, for the advice.

Lost Soul 1

 

[Lost Soul 1]

Anyone with advice?

 

[Cam_H]

Lost Soul,

I have had a quick look but haven't played you game further. I'm not sure if there is one absolutely clear path on this one.

I suppose the thing that I'm not sure about is why you don't just go and take the Barbarian continent, which should get you pretty close to Domination.

I'd look at joining Rome's war against Stalin and getting some more 'mutual struggle' points, and consider gifting Augustus with a bit of technology (although you may have done this previously). In time he'll swap to Representation and you should get a 'favourite civic' positive modifier too. I think that you're right to be concerned about Rome, and you'll need to take a clear position one way or the other on them ... personally I'd befriend Rome and look at one of the other two. Alex looks more backward technologically and therefore prospectively easier.

So, my 'two cents' - by taking Barbarian island and a couple of Greek cities after that, you should probably get your Domination win.

 

[Lost Soul 1]

Thanks Cam_H for the input.

Well, since filing that question several days ago, I waited to hear a response/suggestion (or three)...but none were forthcoming before yours. (Guess I really should move up to BtS--I have it, just not installed--to get in sync with the majority of players here. Warlords advice is a dying commodity, to say the least.)

I'm in the early 1700s now and am on the verge of attacking Alex, who is still pretty tech-challenged. Besides a two galleon shuttle over to the New World (Barbarians only at this point), I've been hemming and hawing to (1) build more units in case of a Monty or Augustus dogpile if/once I DoW Alex, (2) better position my troops to guard against a Monty backdoor rush and/or Augustus similar activity. Alex has teched Guilds and started to turn some of his HAs into Knights, but I've been mostly keeping pace with new Riflemen.

(Monty quickly, and I'm not sure how he did it in so few turns, teched Rifling, Chemistry and Steel. And, again I'm not sure how he funded this upgrade in 2-3 turns, he upgraded almost all of his city dwellers to Riflemen, while still cranking out Cavalry. The upgrade $$ needed--even at a 1/2 or more AI discount--is unbelievable considering the amount of time, or lack thereof, in which he upgraded. Literally, 12-16 Riflemen in 2-3 turns! Anyway, enough Riflemen when combined with his 10+ Cavalry to stop my on-his-doorstep SoD in its tracks. He DoWed Cyrus and razed the remaining Persian city.)

(Augustus has started stockpiling Riflemen, Grenadiers and Cannon. Maybe as an assault tactic should I declare on one of the other two AIs? No Astronomy for him or Monty--although, oddly enough, Alex did tech there before Gunpowder--so no current competition for New World land-grabbing. Augustus quickly settled the abandoned Persian land (same city spot--not optimal in my mind) and has stocked a couple of Riflemen there. Augustus' teching seems to have slowed after getting Steel...perhaps he's going for Combustion or Steam Power. Still a threat, but only as a secondary DoWer. No chance, to date, of engaging Monty and Augustus against one another...probably a combination of distance and Augustus' overwhelming power chart strength.)

So, I'm plodding along with a bit of New World exploration (took one smaller Barbarian city with a few Calvary, a Rifleman and a Grenadier, but I need to send reinforcements. That is, if I can break a few away from my northern and southern standoffs with Augustus). Positioned to invade Alex. His western cities shouldn't be a problem, other than alarming (but hopefully not engaging) Monty for a gift of Astronomy price. Monty has 2 Cavalry positioned near my western front and 6 or so Calvary located near the newly-settled Roman city (formerly Persian). Enough to make me be a bit more cautious about devoting a lot of resources on Alex. And then there's Alex huge stack of HAs, War Elephants and some new Knights in his two eastern-most cities. If I can take those efficiently, the rest of his empire--without a Roman or Aztec DoW on me--should be pretty by the numbers.

In the end, I think I waited 50 years too long to DoW Alex, but the threatening presence of Augustus building Rifleman-laden forces in the SE and Monty's emerging Rifleman/Calvary group has made me bide my time.

Wish me luck!

P.S. If you made it this far, I do have a question: Augustus is Mercantilism, Monty is FM and Alex is Decentralization. I know when I DoW Alex my considerable trade route income (40 or more?) will cease, so it will be down to Monty only. Should I switch to Mercantilism for the extra Specialist--I'm still running Representation--to forego the Monty income (which is probably less than 20 gold) on the prospect that Augustus won't change, even though he has Economics (gift by me in hopes of making him switch civics)?

 

[Cam_H]

I wish you luck!

If you were Spiritual I'd look at the switch, but really doubt it's going to make much of a difference, especially if Rome does turn around and move into Free Market in the near future. I might be thinking about Representation > Police State more than Free Market > Mercantilism.

It seems engineering a dogpile on Alexander with Montezuma or even Augustus if at all possible should help them expend a few units and improve your relations with each. I'm not sure of the state of affairs with that one, but I would imagine that if Montezuma's still Christian and Alexander's still Jewish, then it shouldn't be too hard to bribe Montezuma into a fight.

I don't know if it's worth the effort of spreading Hinduism into the Aztec lands as well as further within your own territory, but if you can get Montezuma to switch over, then having the yourself, Rome, and Aztec all Hinduism might relieve some of the tension. Possibly just as easy to try to get Alexander into Christianity? Dunno on this one though, maybe it's too late and too distracting to pull a stunt like that now .

Keep your eye on the victory screen conditions, but as per before, claiming the Barbarian continent and capturing a handful of Greek cities I would imagine could get you pretty close to Domination. Finishing off HC and Stalin if either are still alive at the current point in the game should be some relatively easy land too.

One thing I notice in your game was that most cities were still a little below their happiness and health caps - you might want to see if there's value in bumping up the population.

Again, I wish you luck.

 

[Lost Soul 1]

Thanks for the extra advice/words, Cam_H.

I'm right on the precipice of "taking the plunge" by DoWing Alex...before he gets too comfy and militarily built up. I'd almost bet that either (or both) Monty or Augustus will DoW shortly thereafter, given their current force strengths (Augustus is much, much stronger than Monty). Then I'll probably wish I would have turtled-up and tried to expand more in the New World (where my current 3 Cavalry, 1 Grenadier city force is under continual, increasing number Maceman attack).

Monty has positioned 8 or so Cavalry and some melee units near my borders...I think he's waiting for the opportunity (either DoW on me by Augustus, although they're annoyed with each other, OR a DoW by me on Alex). Could be ugly and interesting. And then, if I'm successful with the Alex crushing and occupation of his citiies, I have to contend with the much stronger, current cultural influence of both Augustus on my south and Monty near the prime town-laden Sparta in the NW. Never easy, but I think the time has come to engage Alex. I have this looming feeling that dogpiling will be upon me shortly...ugh!

Thanks again for the read (I know I don't have many posts--maybe that's what inhibiting others?) and advice.

 

[dankok8]

Leaders like Augustus, Monty, and Alex are all warmongers so they'll continue building units and your power graph is likely to fall further against theirs so it is a good time to attack now .. try to bribe Ceasar to attack Monty or vice versa or bribe either to declare on Alex; if that's not possible, join ceasar in a war on Stalin in order to befriend him (he almost certainly won't attack you then) and then all you gotta worry about is Monty...simply defend against his stacks until his offensive grinds to a halt. and then you can counterattack once you're done with Greece.