Which Great Improvement on which tile?

[revelation216]

For example, putting an Academy on a hill nets you 8 2.

But what about putting an Academy/Manufactory/other Great Improvement on Bananas, Cows, Sheep, Horses etc?

What are the best tiles for each Great Improvement?

 

[joncnunn]

Production tends to be to important to waste on Academies.

You're also giving up a lot for a Banana since it will auto clear the jungle. (-1 food & -2 science from converting Jungle to Plains)

Sheep is top priority for academies, you're only giving up 1 food pre Fertilizer.
Another top priority is non fresh water wheat.

After that flat tiles that aren't fresh water. Especially Marsh if you aren't the Dutch since it will auto clear the Marsh.

Academies won't provide luxury resources, so never plant one on a luxury.
You generally don't want to plant an academy on a known strategic resource. You'll get the resource but the yields for strategic resource improvements are big.

 

[phillipwyllie]

wheat on flood plains is one I try and put academies on. Granted you loose a potential 2 food when Fertilizer is researched but 4 (once granary is built) and 8 is a nice tile.

 

[revelation216]

academy on stone seemed decent.

remember this is not just academies though! ANY great improvement...

 

[joncnunn]

academy on stone seemed decent.

remember this is not just academies though! ANY great improvement...

No Stone or any other time the normal improvement adds hammers isn't good since it costs hammers. Stone is especally bad if that is the only stone present and you've not yet build Stone Works.

It's the tiles in which you're only giving up 1 food (post civil service but pre fertilizer) that you'd want to work anyway to use first for academies.

Same rule applies for the other great improvements (when you build them at all) except that Academies are normally only built in tiles the city with National College will work (normally the capital) while other great improvements (when built at all) are only built in tiles that other cities will work. (To avoid competing with NC for the same tiles)

 

[Acken]

Who builds great improvements

Just put it on the tile you care the less about the replacing improvement...

 

[Mutineer]

There only 1 criteria, you will have to work this time all the time. Safest are 2 food ties.

 

[revelation216]

No Stone or any other time the normal improvement adds hammers isn't good since it costs hammers. Stone is especally bad if that is the only stone present and you've not yet build Stone Works.

It's the tiles in which you're only giving up 1 food (post civil service but pre fertilizer) that you'd want to work anyway to use first for academies.

Same rule applies for the other great improvements (when you build them at all) except that Academies are normally only built in tiles the city with National College will work (normally the capital) while other great improvements (when built at all) are only built in tiles that other cities will work. (To avoid competing with NC for the same tiles)

Isn't the Academy yield on Stone 128 and the yield on a quarry 31?

That's what I didn't really get at I suppose in my OP. The best overall yield for an Academy/Manufactory and what tiles give the best yields?

I realise there's an opportunity cost to not building a quarry there, but surely 128 > 31 ?

 

[dragonxxx]

academies on strategics are no brainer for me.

 

[Browd]

Isn't the Academy yield on Stone 128 and the yield on a quarry 31?

That's what I didn't really get at I suppose in my OP. The best overall yield for an Academy/Manufactory and what tiles give the best yields?

I realise there's an opportunity cost to not building a quarry there, but surely 128 > 31 ?

Since Stone is usually found on grasslands, its base yield is 2 food 1 hammer, and when improved by a quarry you get 2 food 2 hammers, +1 hammer at Chemistry , and +1 hammer with Order's Five year Plan Tenet. So, you lose potentially 3 hammers by planting an academy on Stone.

The idea with GP tile improvements is not to maximize the yield from one tile, but to maximize the yield from a citizen working that tile with the least amount of lost yield from the alternative tile improvements (quarry, mine, farm, etc.). That is why most players prefer to plant GP tile improvements on non-riverside farmable tiles that have a base yield of at least 2 food -- that tile only requires one citizen to work the tile and you lose only 1 food by not farming that tile prior to Fertilizer.

If you plant a GP on a tile that yields less than 2 food, you need to have a citizen working another surplus food tile in order to support the citizen working the GP tile improvement. That effectively dilutes the yield from the GP improvement tile. For example, if you plant your academy on a hill tile, that tile will yield 2 hammers and 8 beakers, but you need to work a riverside grassland farm (4 food) to support both the citizen working the grassland farm and the hilltop academy -- average yield on both tiles is 2 food, 1 hammer and 4 beakers, but only the hammer and beakers are "excess" since the food just supports the citizens (no growth). And you lose potentially another 3 hammers by not mining the hill.

 

[joncnunn]

Isn't the Academy yield on Stone 128 and the yield on a quarry 31?

That's what I didn't really get at I suppose in my OP. The best overall yield for an Academy/Manufactory and what tiles give the best yields?

I realise there's an opportunity cost to not building a quarry there, but surely 128 > 31 ?

Academies tend to be built on the National College City (normally the capital), where you can afford the opportunity cost of 1 food more than 1 hammer.
If you have both a Sheep and a Stone, the same two tiles will be worked either way, but you want the Academy on the Sheep.

 

[brasaelal]

I'm sorry, but isn't placing great improvement on resources kind of waste of your best tiles?

Seems to me that the best tiles to do that are grassland or plains with no fresh water, because around modern era you'll be assigning specialists on buildings for lack of good tiles anyway.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

I'm sorry, but isn't placing great improvement on resources kind of waste of your best tiles?

Seems to me that the best tiles to do that are grassland or plains with no fresh water, because around modern era you'll be assigning specialists on buildings for lack of good tiles anyway.

I agree with this -- I'd rather not sacrifice food/production, and tend to plant my scientists on boring old grassland tiles that aren't next to water.

 

[tetley]

I plant a lot more holy sites than academies (unless I'm Babylon), so I can speak to that. I plant Holy sites on 2-food tiles in puppet cities, thus making sure they get worked. I don't miss the tile, because it's a puppet city. Then I finish piety and they produce culture, which lets the puppets expand their borders.

I've been meaning to experiment the tradeoffs doing academies on puppets this way (obviously one tradeoff is less science), but haven't yet. So far I'm assuming you want to plant them with your NC, and hope that some maritime allies can make your food back.

 

[Manpanzee]

I'm sorry, but isn't placing great improvement on resources kind of waste of your best tiles?

I agree with this -- I'd rather not sacrifice food/production, and tend to plant my scientists on boring old grassland tiles that aren't next to water.

It's not a waste, because the bonus yields from the resource remains, regardless of the improvement. The only thing you sacrifice is the benefit of a normal improvement -- a pasture on sheep provides one food, just as a farm on dry land provides one food. Thus, the amount of resources sacrificed by planting on a bonus tile is exactly the same as the amount you would sacrifice by planting on a regular tile -- the exception is freshwater farms, which produce a yield of two, while every other improvement yields one prior to Chemistry/Fertilizer.

So, you definitely don't want to plant on irrigated land (pre Fertilizer), but anywhere else has effectively the same opportunity cost. Because the cost is the same, the most important thing is to put the improvement on a tile that you know you'll always want to work -- this is why planting on bonus tiles is generally preferred. Other than that, the question is just whether you'd like to sacrifice food or hammers -- plant on Sheep/Deer if you'd prefer to sacrifice food, plant on Stone/Horses/Cattle if you'd prefer to sacrifice hammers. Or you can just plant on Grassland or whatever if you know that you have enough pop to always work that tile.

In general, I'd say that planting on Deer is the best, since a Camp will only ever yield +1f/+1g, while everything else will eventually give two total f/h later on.

Just remember not to plant on a bonus tile if it'll prevent you from building a resource-associated building -- get your Stoneworks out before planting on your only Stone!

 

[CraigMak]

My favorite spot is on wheat that's not on a riverside tile. Next would be grassland not on a riverside tile, 3rd would be plains not on a riverside tile. I try not to use up riverside tiles which can be farmed for +2 food with civil service. Also do not plant on resources that yield production when improved. Not on jungle since those give +2 science with a university avoid hills which can be mined for more production.

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

I always like placing academies on Cattle tiles. Just me.
Horses seems like a easy choice as well.
Sheep work too, but I like sheep with pastures quite a lot, because of the balance of hammers and food.

Grassland without freshwater is decent for academies I guess, I like having the food + science to make up for the citizen working the tile (As Browd points out)

If you have more than one wheat / banana then your granary kicks in i nice bonus, I would place the GP tiles on the Sheep / cattle / Horse

but the same might be true in reverse. if I had a lot of "Pasture" tiles then I want that stables to kick in and I would sacrifice one wheat or one banana to the academy.

So, its a measure what you have. Grassland without fresh water always seems like a good idea. Everything else is situational.

You really only need to make hard choices as Babylon.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

It's not a waste, because the bonus yields from the resource remains, regardless of the improvement. The only thing you sacrifice is the benefit of a normal improvement -- a pasture on sheep provides one food, just as a farm on dry land provides one food. Thus, the amount of resources sacrificed by planting on a bonus tile is exactly the same as the amount you would sacrifice by planting on a regular tile -- the exception is freshwater farms, which produce a yield of two, while every other improvement yields one prior to Chemistry/Fertilizer.

I see the logic, which is why I like to plant on plain grassland. If there is no sacrifice now, but will be a sacrifice later post-fertilization (or whatever the key tech is), then why not just use grassland now? Or better yet, a forest, to get some insta-hammers.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

I always like placing academies on Cattle tiles. Just me.
Horses seems like a easy choice as well.

Horses is a bad idea because you can sell 'em for at least half the game.

 

[Browd]

GP tile improvement connects the horses (in fact, will connect any strategic resource) for trading purposes and for use with units that require that resource.

Sadly, GP tile improvements do not connect luxury resources.