Which leader was a true 'Communist'??

[John Wayne USA]

It has long been argued, particularly by the Left, that very few, if any of the leaders in Communist countries were actually Communist......

So I was just wondering, once and for all, who people thought came closest to being a 'true Commie' and why.......

I always thought that this meant who came closest to the ideas of Marx, but hey, its your thread, if you have an alternative interpretation thats fine too.

 

[Evie]

The *LEADERS* - some of them anyway (IE, not Stalin) - were true communists in the sense that they believed at least to some extent in the communist ideal. Of course, given that communism was an idea, no country EVER managed to actually be a communist nation and they eventualy got lost along the way.

"Josef Stalin"

Probably not a true communist, but I don't know.

Vladimir Lenin

No idea, though I suspect he had strong communists belief certainly.

"Mao Tse-Tung "

A definite believer in the communism system, and someone who initially wasn't that far off the mark ; but he lost it at some point and went on crazy projects after crazy projects. That said, he scored a major failure on the communist ideals : he tried to skip the "capitalist industrialization" step.

"Fidel Castro"

Ah, yes. One of the "Communists of fortune", in other words, people who had socialists (or left-wing ideals) and implemented a rebellion without actual communists intent - then turned to outright communism as their mean of survival when Washington decided it wanted rid of their regime.

Ho Chi Minh

Much like CAstro, he turned to Communism because communists happened to be willing to help him. He eventually adopted the ideas of communism, but his primary reason for alligning with them was the need for some international backing against the french oppression in Indochina - which only the communists were willing to give.

However, he did pretty much accept and adopt the ideals of the communist party on a vast majority of topics.

"Che Guevera"

I don't know enough to judge how much of a real communist he was.

"Salvador Allende"

He was a socialist more than a communist. He also stands out as being a rightfully elected leader (which didn't stop A CERTAIN COUNTRY from going out of its way to get him kicked out of power (though at least they did not do the deed themselves. Not like in 53 Guatemala - against another rightfuly elected leader)). where most of the others either just assumed power or took it by virtue of being leaders of the rebellion that removed the previous order (note that in most case this previous order was at best no better than the communists).

"Muammar Al-Quadafi"

I wasn't even aware that guy had anything to do with communism *shrugs*. Then again, Libya's never been of much interest to me (unlike Asia and to a lesser extent latin America)

 

[tonberry]

Allende and Quadafi are not communists. The first is a socialist. I think the second also has socialist belief but I'm not sure.

Che wasn't a leader in the same sense of the others. He was a communist but did not beleive how it was apply by the soviet.

 

[JJP]

Lenin.

 

[Stefan Haertel]

So I was just wondering, once and for all, who people thought came closest to being a 'true Commie' and
why.......

Sorry, there are no once and for all sollutions, there is no once and for all answer to such a question.

 

[amadeus]

They're almost all shining examples of communism - people suffered, died, tortured, raped, families destroyed - all for the "glory of the proletariat."

With the exception of Moammar Qadaffi, who's ideology seems to shift from revolutionary socialism to a refined radical Islam and back again.

 

[Evie]

Because people tortured, raped, killed, family butchered for the glory of a tiny upper class is any better RMSharpe? (see : any right-wing dictatorship).

Right-wing dictatorships are no better than left-wing ones. In fact, to chose between the two, I'd rather live in the left-wing variant - there at least the state make SOME pretense of caring for the common people (which is better than "none at all" in right-wing dictatorships, which cares about enriching a few rich people and not much else. Oh, some of them care about sucking up to Washington too.).

Oh, and chalk up Allende as not communist even by YOUR definition. He was a socialist.

The torturing, raping, killing, etc was the work of Augusto Pinochet's "government". We won't mention here which country helped destabilize Allende and put Pinochet in power. I think we all know which one that is - the one that had no qualms about pulling that same trick against a few others rightfully elected left-wing government.

 

[naervod]

None of these people are true Communists, but the closest is Mao-tse Tung.

 

[amadeus]

Is that because he murdered the most out of all the options availible?

 

[Sayounara]

Probably Lenin, he was known as famous in many countries

 

[nixon]

Communism is relative from country to country, thus all of those mentioned could be true commies. Personally, I'd go for Stalin and Lenin, as they were the men who serious pushed the ideology forward since Marx's formulations in the mid-XIX century.

 

[newfangle]

There's never been true capitalism in practice either. Why can't people just separate reality from illusion?

 

[Evie]

True that, Newfangle. Communism and Capitalism both rely on a good-hearted, honest mankind in the end (IE, to completely work), and we all know that's not something you're going to find in the world.

 

[Stefan Haertel]

True that, Newfangle. Communism and Capitalism both rely on a good-hearted, honest mankind in the end (IE, to
completely work), and we all know that's not something you're going to find in the world.

That is, unfortunately, true.

 

[Finmaster]

I voted for Lenin.

Why? Because from what I've heard, he was the only leader who truly believed in Marx's studies. No, he didn't follow them completely, and he created a nation that was under the dictaturship of only one party. But that, according to Lenin, was just a phase that the people of Russia simply HAD to go through in order for communism to work.

Too bad Lenin died before his plans of communist society were accomplished in Russia - and Stalin ruined the future of communism once and for all once he got to power. But the way I see it, Lenin was a "true communist" because he was the only one who in the end believed that Marx's system would create a better society.

 

[stalin006]

My vote goes to Ho Chi Mihn, why? he might not been a true communist, but he was the best darn communist leader ever!

 

[MaDmAn_71]

I vote Lenin. Perhaps he didn't follow Communism properly, but he did firmly believe in it, and his ultimate long term goal was alledged to be that.
Anyone who firmly believes in their goals and their ability to accomplish it is, in my opinion, a lot more true to it than someone blindly following it.

Why Lenin though? He completely overhauled Russia's economic system, and introduced new ideas such as free state education, not seen in any other country, I believe, at that time.

 

[stalin006]

WHO IS SALVADOR ALLENDE!?! sounds familiar......yet i dont know....it must be anotehr allende

 

[Yago]

Hm, that's an intersesting thaught. Ideology doesn't matter, human beings just suck.

 

[MrPresident]

Originally posted by newfangle
There's never been true capitalism in practice either.

This is wrong. It is like saying there has never been true democracy. What makes either of them "true"? If you had said there has never been free market capitalism in practice then you would be right. But free market capitalism isn't necessary "true" capitalism and many, including me, would argue it isn't the best form of capitalism.

Originally posted by Oda Nobunaga
Right-wing dictatorships are no better than left-wing ones.

Where did rmsharpe mention right-wing dictatorships? Just because he criticised left-wing ones doesn't mean he is in favour of right-wing ones instead. Maybe, just maybe, he hates all forms of dictatorship.

Originally posted by Oda Nobunaga
Communism and Capitalism both rely on a good-hearted, honest mankind in the end

Wrong. Communism relies upon repression and general suppression of freedoms. Capitalism relies upon people doing what is in their best self-interest.

Originally posted by John Wayne USA
So I was just wondering, once and for all, who people thought came closest to being a 'true Commie' and why.......

I would say Lenin because there is evidence to suggest he realised Russia wasn't ready for a Communist revolution and needed a capitalist phrase beforehand.