Which three wonders of the world is jou best ?

[Karl Marx the Penguin]

3 best: Leo's (gotto keep it outta the AI's hands)
Adam Smith's
tie between Hanging Gardens and statue of liberty (love that happiness, but it takes SO LONG to get to Communism without the STATUE)

3 MOST USELESS AND HATED: LIGHTHOUSE (JUST USELESS)
EIFFEL TOWER (i'm despicable [against the AI, it's not worthy of good treatment] reputation only matters till gunpowder)
AND THE MOST HATED WONDER:

MANHATTAN PROJECT I like to keep that genie of death under my hat any AI civ that tries to build it loses that city and another, even if it costs me thousands of gold, dozens of units and several turns of general population anguish.

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This has been Karl Marx the Penguin.
-- "Workers [penguins] of the World Unite"

 

[SlowwHand]

You might not pick Lighthouse for your top 3, but you are severely misinformed if you put in group of 3 most worthless.

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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
ICQ 51553293

 

[allan]

Again, the lighthouse becomes very useful if you're on a small island in the beginning: it gives you unsinkable triremes (just like the AI's!) so that you can settle other, larger and untouched landmasses easier (even with that trick of clicking blacked out squares to find land, you MAY find that there is simply no land within three squares of yours, then what do you do?). Also, in such games you will likely be navy-oriented in general (like the British in real life), and having vet ships before port facilities can be a real bonus--especially vet ironclads! The only con is its early expiration--if I have it I try to milk it as long as possible by avoiding magnetism, but someone else may get that advance too.

By far the best naval-oriented wonder is Magellan's, however. It never expires, and that plus-two mobility gives you a real edge in naval combat, whether it's two extra hits with a battleship on a port city, or extra movement of a destroyer to escape when it bumps into enemy battleships.... Even if I'm based on a big landmass, I'll still try for Magellan's but write off the lighthouse--but BOTH are very useful if you must expand via the seas.

 

[Karl Marx the Penguin]

I understand the worry about not having land anywhere close, and if that happened, sure I would get the LIGHTHOUSE, i meant that it was the least usefull of the time period all of these NEED to built first, unless on a small island

• Hanging gardens
• Colossus
• Great library
• Pyramids
• Marco Polo's Embassy
• Copernicus's Observatory

admittedly not in that order, but in the early game, I try to get as many of these 6 as possible if none are available (I gottem, someone else gottem, or I don't have that tech) than I'll start the LIGHTHOUSE by the time it's near completion other more important wonders are needed (not to mention that the AI usually gets 1,2, or 3 of my prized early wonders + plus the LIGHTHOUSE) I have no use for it, if have to choose between two wonder one being the lighthouse, the other always wins (except if it is Manhattan, but by then the AI would get the Lighthouse

In fact I rather build a library or a granary then worry about the LIGHTHOUSE

In every game I've ever played (except one) I have never built the Lighthouse.

Pardon my grammer
I didn't mean to slander your much beloved wonder I was just stating an opinion

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This has been Karl Marx the Penguin.
-- "Workers [penguins] of the World Unite"

 

[allan]

I don't love it THAT much, and I see what you're saying.... But I often play on archipelagoes (because I love naval combat, and finding strange new islands to populate), and so I find I often build it for that early naval edge.

When I play on a "continental" map, and find myself occupying one of the big continents, then I'll forego the lighthouse.

Which is the beauty of this game: there's no ONE formula for success, you must prioritize based on whatever the fates of the program throw at you. On an archipelago, I'll often build the lighthouse before, say, the Pyramids, because I don't envision myself having a sprawling empire of 100+ cities but I DO see myself using lots of ships. On a big landmass, the reverse is true....

 

[SlowwHand]

Lighthouse is the same, regardless of setting.

If you're in a 2x game, Pyramids are a wasted Wonder.
Why?
Why would you require? Already 2x food.

The point of Lighthouse as equates to size land you're on is only one aspect.

I myself rarely build Lighthouse in all honesty, but I know some that do regularly; and I can see clearly the benefits of this Wonder.

If you get around the world dropping off dips and establishing embassies, that pretty well makes Marco Polo unneeded, as a side benefit.

As far as effect ending early, maybe.
By then though it has pretty much accomplished what was trying to be done.



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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
ICQ 51553293

 

[allan]

Yep, it has.... the BIGGEST benefit of the Lighthouse are those unsinkable triremes at the beginning of the game--allowing you to expand to other landmasses fairly early. I build shitloads of triremes when I have the lighthouse. After Leonardo's turns them into caravels, the only bennie is their vet status. Vet ironclads are awesome, too, but unsinkable triremes are a critical thing in the game if you start on a small island in the middle of nowhere....

BTW, there's SUPPOSED to be a 50% chance your triremes WON'T founder in open seas without the lighthouse, but have you ever had one NOT founder in such situations? All the more reason for the lighthouse, IF you must depend on these things....

Again, if I'm on a big continent with lots of open land, the lighthouse ceases to be important--because I have my liebensraum already....

BTW, I still play SP mode (I wouldn't mind trying multiplayer, but I wonder how scheduling is worked out and all--my schedule can be erratic), so this "2x2x" stuff means nothing to me (unless it can be implemented in SP?).

[This message has been edited by allan (edited August 06, 2001).]

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by allan:
Yep, it has.... the BIGGEST benefit of the Lighthouse are those unsinkable triremes at the beginning of the game

You can always use the trick (cheat?) that makes triremes unsinkable in deep water anyway.

BTW, there's SUPPOSED to be a 50% chance your triremes WON'T founder in open seas without the lighthouse, but have you ever had one NOT founder in such situations?

I have on occasion, dared the odds and let my trireme go out and it has not sunk. The odds of survival are suppose to get better once you have seafaring and then better yet once you have navigation.

BTW, I still play SP mode, so this "2x2x" stuff means nothing to me (unless it can be implemented in SP?).

What they refer to is the option of setting the game at double the resources and double the movement of a regular game. It is used quite a bit in MP to speed up the game, but also throws off 'normal' play quite a bit.

I'd suggest checking out the MP forum to learn more. Slowwhand often holds 'newbie' games where he trys to help out new MP people. Once you get use to playing another human, you'll really think the AI is stupid. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/lol.gif" border=0>

edit: finally got the quote boundaries right...

[This message has been edited by Duke of Marlbrough (edited August 06, 2001).]

 

[allan]

I actually tried that cheat--it doesn't seem to work in my game. When I press the space bar after moving two, it sinks. Is this version specific? I have MP Gold.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

You don't press the space bar. You move the trireme and leave one point on it. Then you press 'Ctrl'+'n' (this is the keyboard shortcut for end turn) or pick end turn from the 'orders' menu.

Viola! The trireme is alive and ready to go next turn. The only downside is that the trireme is then only moving two squares per turn...

 

[SlowwHand]

That's not all that much of a down side really.
I have to say, I wasn't aware of this bug, and will surely check it out.

------------------
It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
ICQ 51553293

 

[Vrylakas]

It's irrelevant to argue which combination is best because it all depends on your own game strategy. As long as you've put together a winning strategy that is flexible and comes out on top most (all?) of the time, then stick with it.

My personal favorites - if I can get my paws on them first in each game - are:

1. Pyramids (Quick, cheap growth)
2. Leonardo (Quick, cheap military upgrades)
3. SETI (Quick, cheap research)

Are you seeing a theme here...?

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"...über den Bergen sind auch Leute..."
<IMG SRC="http://www.donlinke.com/images/Vlad/vlad_bevel.jpg" border=0>

 

[Juize]

(quote)
--------------------------------------------
1. Michelangelo's Chapel (Invaluable. Worth
over 12,000, often over 20,000; essential
for Deity growth; can be worth over 600 gold
per turn; about 30,000 - 40,000 gold total,
in a large deity game)
2. JS Bach (Invaluable, nothing can
duplicate its effects in a
Democracy/Republic; allows early Rep/Dem
wars & growth at same time)
3. Pyramids (typically worth 8,000 - 12,000
early-late game shields & 1,200 early game
gold; greatly helps growth; allows
easy "push" of science/tax/shields)
---------------------------------------------
I couldn't be more same-minded (Great engrish, huh?) with starlifter.

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-I'm a communist pig and proud of it.

 

[allan]

The figure "600 per turn"--are you referring to money you don't have to divert to luxuries for the same happiness, or the maintenance cost of cathedrals (in which case you've got a LOT of cities!)?

I've discovered the bennies of Mike's as I've become acquainted with play as a democracy (now I almost always go for democracy--especially once I have Mike's, Suffrage, and the UN--I'm not scared of it anymore). Now I try to get it at all costs, at least if I'm a big civ (sometimes I play smaller but smarter (for faster, less tedious games), and then Mike's isn't as essential).

For small civs:
--Colossus, Copernicus, Newton (definitely need an SSC if you have fewer cities)
--Shakespeare (a democracy with few cities should have one that can pump out as many unpopular or away units as it can--larger ones can support a large military by a small number per city, so it isn't as crucial)
--The UN and Great Wall (to force peace if you're weaker, against the AI)

for bigger civs:

--Pyramids (without question, the best aid for growth)
--Mike's (saves building tons of cathedrals)
--JS Bach (I understand this works on only the same continent, so make sure you build it on your biggest/most populated one)
--Hoover Dam (global power and pollution control)
--Leonardo's (try to build it even if you're small, though, just so the computer doesn't)
--Sun Tzu's (not that much of a biggie for my "peaceful expansion" style, but when you're big, build it because you CAN)
--SETI (global science)
--Suffrage (especially if you don't have Shake's, this will help minimize peacenik unhappiness in democracies)
And of course, since the list is longer for bigger civs, build King Richard's to help you build some of these others!

In other words--for smaller civs, local (one-city) wonders; bigger civs, global (... in every city) wonders.

And if you plan to use your navy as your main combat force, Magellans and the Lighthouse should be in your plans too!

 

[woke25]

Who all build shakespears theatre? i have to say i have never build it, before i read a post about it a few days ago.

In deity, ST gives not only fast hapiness to the city where it is build in, but also to all the other cities where it has trade routes with. combine shakepear with colussus, and it is as powerfull for hapiness as the chappel or bach.

an interesting game in deity would be: shakespears theatre, colusses and pyramids vs Hanging gardens, chappel and bach.

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Woke23

Civ Fanatics Ladder Operator

[This message has been edited by woke23 (edited August 10, 2001).]

 

[allan]

Does Shakespeare's presence have a DIRECT effect on happiness with cities on its trade routes? I've never heard of that before. Or is it more an indirect one (i.e. as the city is more likely to grow through WLTPM days without unhappies, it makes the trade routes more valuable, which adds to the happiness of the trade partners)?

I build it to create a home city for "unhappy" units (bombers, helicopters, missiles) and units frequently away from home (ships and offensive ground units), to circumvent the rioting hippies in democracy

. It becomes less essential, like I said, if you have a big civ with mostly big, prosperous cities--each can absorb a few without unhappies if you ply the people with luxuries. But I'll often build it even if I'm big just for convenience, and because I can....

 

[Aristonico]

Every player a different style...
But my way is:
-Pyramids /A conquered city (sometimes) gives you a lovely granary to sell (60$?)
-Leonardo's /Automatic upgrades, specially of the conquered/birbed units
-A.Smith /How many constructions in your city cost 1$ turn?

The two I never build are: Apollo (why, if anybody elses does it you have the photos!) and Manhattan (exactly the same!)

-

 

[allan]

I usually (pretty much, always) build Apollo, simply because no one else will (can) at the time I want to build my spaceship (you can't build spaceships before Apollo)....

Manhattan doesn't get built until a) someone else starts building it and I would have a hard time stopping it--then I'll build it myself (and try to beat the AI to it) for the 20 points on my score.... or b) if no one tried to build it beforehand, I'll begin building it so that it gets done the year before my spaceship lands, again for the 20 points. But I like nuke-free games.

I've posted on this thread a lot, but upon review I see I haven't ever actually listed THREE favorites. That's hard, because different circumstances dictate different values for the wonders. But in my usual style (steady expansion), I like three "global" wonders:

Pyramids (global granaries for growth)
Michelangelo's Chapel (global cathedrals for happiness)
Hoover Dam (global hydro plants for production)

I love things that give me free improvements in every city (which can be a LOT of cities!).

 

[ferenginar]

Many priorities are dependent on the particular game you are playing as i mentioned in the Lighthouse thread, but in general..

1) Leo's workshop
2) Mike's Chapel
3) Hoover Damn

Last place is always Manhattan, I am currently playing a game in which this genie of death is out and causing havoc. mostly my fault really as i nuked the americans into oblivion. Got hit by global warming though, which left many of my major cities with a serious food shortage. Only benefit is it impacted the other remaining civs similarly and I reckon that I am in the best place to cope with it.

 

[Master of Ceremonies]

Long before I learned about Infinite City Sprawl I would win games by building about 25 cities and CRANKING the resources. Mining every hill, converting grassland to trees if necessary. By the time I got to Diety level I realized that there is a real challenge in keeping this type of strategy. My style is more on the militaristic/perfectionist slant. I play bloodlust 80% of the time (though lately I let the AI's try to "escape" from my raging horde with their spaceships) so my favorite wonders are:

1: Appollo's - no more hiding now!
2: Hoover Dam - more resources and LESS POLLUTION!
3: King Richard's Crusade - though I sometimes don't get this one because I end up switching to Leonardo's just before I finish it; when I do get that one - LOOK OUT!

I also like all the religious wonders for the happiness - especially Hanging Gardens which I will often take over Pyramids and always over Colossus.

I must confess that because the AI is SO stupid that I don't strategize as I should. I really need to get the multiplayer game and see how well I really can play.