Which three wonders of the world is jou best ?

Depends on situation.

Michelangelo's Chapel is #1 in all situations.

Adam Smith's Trading Co. #2 because it will pay for graneries thus negating Pyramids. It will also generate enough income so you can buy graneries, marketplaces, libraries, harbours etc.

If I'm in a water world Magellans is next.

If I'm on a big continent with other civs, JS Bach. I've just been converted to that wonder, thanks to previous discussions.

If I want a big war Hoovers Dam. You'll churn out units quicker.

I'f I'm going for space race, I tend to lean toward SETI. Only because it is a lot like Michelangelo's Chapel only in the science resepct. I find it really helps at the end when the tech race gets heated.

I for got to mention ones I never build.

Leos I avoid unless I want to up grade all my settlers to engineers. Or I have Sun Tzu's War acadamey. I know it doesn't make sense but I've had Vetern Legions defend sucsessfully against non-vet Armour.

Hanging Gardens I've never built because I find it expires too quickly. Maybe I'll get diffrent opinions on it as I go. Also there are other wonders of greater importance.

Manhatten for obvious reasons. I don't like nukes but I'll use them if the AI builds it.

Apollo Program I let them build it because I still get benifits of it and if I want the points I can capture it.

Lighthouse expires to quick.

I only build the great library if I don't want them having it. Or if I'm close to electricity I let them build it and then I expire it.

Most of the others I build as I need them. I only build great wall if I got defense problems.
 
what r good wonders really depend on the play level and the strat.... I usually play deity...

in a typical game Imust have colusus and the Oracle... but lately due the loads of unhappy people I take a high option on the gardens... only because it doesn't need a improvemenst 2 function and it makes one person happy

normally I expand very quickly and when u have a certain number of cities the "one" citys will have unhappy people from the start... this really slows me down because I need to build a temple first...

after these wonders I usually be much more advanced then the computer that for the other importend wonders I have no compitition...

but what I really find very importend... the observatory, and all other chience improvers...

2 start about leo's.... most of u find it a very importend wonder... but for me it is notr that importend I can build it... but usually I don't have that many units at that time and sertainly not a lot of defence units... so in my games usually my settlers will get upgraded... this is still importend but not a total lost if I don't have leo's...

usually I start loosing intrest in the game just after going 2 democracy... haveing such a edge on the computer is no fun.... I really should finish a game once in a while....
 
The only trouble with Mike's Chapel is that it requires temples to work, so if I'm using luxuries to get WLT_Ds then I sometimes forget to put temples in new cities and end up with problems when I take the luxuries away. My fault, and nothing really wrong with the wonder, but it would be far too difficult if you didn't need temples for cathedrals and just got them for free.
 
I didn't know you needed temples for Michelangelo's to work!?!
I usually built temples anyway so I never experimented.
 
Duke o' york:

I was speaking of effect increases with time in the sense that, the longer you have it, the more techs you can potentially gain from it. Since Great Library checks for its fulfilled conditions erratically at best, building it earlier gives it a greater chance to kick in and give you tech. I don't build it either, just because of the main disadvantage I wrote down "- Not too hard to trade techs instead of building it". Perhaps I should have written "Bloody simple to trade techs..."?

As for the + and - marks: as I stated in my original post, a + represents a reason to build it, and a - represents a reason to leave it for later. I think that the consideration about whether a wonder is "better" or not is second to the consideration about whether you should build it or not. Therefore, if you have to build it to get the best use of it, it qualifies in the + section: a reason to build it!

-Sev
 
Originally posted by duke o' york
The only trouble with Mike's Chapel is that it requires temples to work, so if I'm using luxuries to get WLT_Ds then I sometimes forget to put temples in new cities and end up with problems when I take the luxuries away. My fault, and nothing really wrong with the wonder, but it would be far too difficult if you didn't need temples for cathedrals and just got them for free.

Clarification: the Oracle requires temples to work. Mike's Chapel requires no such requisite, counting as a cathedral in every city.
 
My thoughts:

1. Michelangelo's Chapel: In all games on all maps, is the
best one hands down.

2. Leonardo's Workshop: I always find this one very useful.
Can take a warrior all the way to rifleman and gets all
those settlers to engineers. Saves a lot of time and money.
More useful in certain games than others. Can do without
and still do well.

3. J.S. Bach's Cathedral. Unless your main cities are all
spread over different continents then this one is near
MC in effect. Combined with MC can make a powerful
democracy. Usefulness can vary a bit though game to game.

Honorable mentions:

1. Lighthouse: I never built this one til about 5 games ago
but in the right type of game this one is a MUST have. In the
wrong type of game it is not worthwhile. Cheap to build and
in that time before it expires your triremes can colonize a huge
area and start a lot of trade. Be careful of the expiry though
or you will strand ships :(

2. Adam Smith's: Huge money saver and helps smaller cities by
making it a no brainer to build the small improvments if you have
the cash. Better with more cities and never really nessassary but
I always like to build it.
 
Because I try to discover democracy (and build the statue, then go fundy) and leadership as quickly as possible, I'm more often than not faced with the choice of Future technology 10 or monotheism at the end of the game. Thus, I never build Mikey's chapel. I seem to get along fine without it.
 
Top three and why

1. Marco Polo Embassy - Personally, I like to trade for my techs. If I have a pretty hefty civ at the beginning of the game then I can trade essentially for 7-8 advances for the price of maybe one of my own and two of others. Great way to jump out ahead of other civs in research.

2. Mike's - Cathedrals are damn expensive but worth it to keep the rabble happy. :sniper:

3. Leonardo's Workshop - Part of my game play is to keep a great deal of settlers around. I try to get roads built quick and having them all convert to Engineers is a great thing.
 
MP:

1. Statue of liberty
2. Lighthouse
3. Sun Tzu

SP:

1. Mich's
2. JSB
3. Cope's
 
Not necessarily in order of importance but in order of acquisition:

Hanging Gardens - On the road to early republic and celebrating

Michaelangelo's - Allows for war in republic (if you miss this one get Bachs and you are still OK)

Leonardo's - self-explanatory

There are my choices for multiplayer games. Against the AI I usually get them all :D
 
Since I play on diety, I have grown to like the hanging gardens very much.

It's cheap, only 200 shields (or 4 caravans), it's great for keeping the citizens happy, and it's great for your SSC (we love the kings day). If I build a wonder, this is the first I build.

As a nr 2, I think Michelangelos Chapel is good. Gotta keep the citizens happy throughout the game.

Nr 3: I don't know...but I like to have the Colussus and Coopernicus Observation in my SSC too, and of course Isaac's Newton College.

My top priorities are the first two wonders though.

Edit: Oh yeah, I really like the Marco polos wonder too, since it's cheap and gives me a lot of advances, money and maps early on.
 
well I think the greatest wonder is Great Wall, the obvious problem being the early obsolution, so excluding thet, my 3 faves are: Leonardo's Workshop, Michelangelo's Chapel and United Nations. Some other ones I try to get are Statue Of Liberty, Eiffel Tower, Magellan's Expedition and Adam Smith's Trading Co. Manhattan Project is the worst :nuke:
 
leonardos workshop -> the auto-upgrade kick ass! :D
darwins vollage -> two consecutive advances help a lot
adams smith etc. -> a lot of reduction of cost
 
best wonders..

pyramids.. miracle-gro for ancient era civs

copernicus and newton combo.. very nice

darwins voyage.. im lazy, i like free ****
 
Originally posted by arab neighbor
best wonders..

darwins voyage.. im lazy, i like free ****

It's not free. In my opinion, it COSTS too much in shields to justify 2 free techs. I only build this if I have a city with too much time on its hands and no more improvements to build.
 
As many have already observed, the value of wonders depends heavily on the level at which you're playing and the strategy you are adopting.

As a large-map deity player fond of an expansionist and aggressive strategy as a democracy, I would have to name Hoover's Dam as the one I care about the most. By the time the Dam comes along, one should have a lot of cities already so the boost to production is substantial and very costly to duplicate otherwise (especially after allowing for the pollution). And the maintenance saving is also great. Even though one should be well ahead at this stage of the game, the boost is a great shot in the arm. If you still have a serious rival at this stage it is all the more important to build it first.

I think that Bach's Cathedral and Shakespeare's Theatre can be very important for the Democracy player for a reason that doesn't seem to have been mentioned here. Units away from home start causing unhappiness after the cumulative effect of improvements but before the effect of wonders. This means that, apart from the direct beneficial effect of making people happier, Bach's Cathedral can also be one of the few ways of keeping certain large cities both supporting units away from home and also in WLTP mode (so growing each turn). Wonders can do this in a way that city improvements simply can't. Shakespeare's Theatre is another way of addressing this problem: one can build the Theatre in a high-production (preferably coastal) city, then reassign the homes of all the bombers, AEGIS cruisers etc to that city where they don't make anyone unhappy. Therefore, I will usually aim to build either the Theatre in an appropriate city or Bach on an appropriate continent. I think it is worth building at least one of these oneself, to ensure they are in a suitable place.

Cure for Cancer, apart from the fact that it arrives rather later in the game, can also be built anywhere and is therefore equally well captured. So I make that a lower research/build priority.

If Bach and the Theatre are treated as one "either/or" rather than two, I guess I'd put Women's Suffrage third. Of course, one can build police stations in the appropriate cities instead -- but I find Women's Suffrage gives considerable tactical flexibility when expanding rapidly by conquest. Specifically, it makes it much easier to incite revolts and then actually use the newly acquired units (without the wonder you'll have to build the police station first or get the units to a new home base straight away which may be impossible). Also, it makes it easier to get newly conquered cities building further units faster, or taking over the home for existing units. And it saves a good amount of maintenance, if you'd expect to have a lot of police stations otherwise.

Why not the others -- when many people have quite correctly described their many virtues? Well, I must say that Adam Smith and Michaelangelo are also both extremely useful for my kind of game -- as many here have pointed out -- and I will also usually build these with some enthusiasm. But I tend to find that if the AI builds these earlier than I've gotten round to it for some reason, then it's not the end of the world. Assuming the AI CIV in question is not too large, then the benefit they get isn't too great and both can (and will!) be captured at the point where they become strategic.

The Statue of Liberty is another one I like and build when I can, but it's not crucial. I don't like to switch away from Democracy once I've got there, so avoiding the anarchy is nice but a bit of a luxury.

Magellan is also quite good -- those extra couple of movement points can make all the difference to getting in the first blow in a naval encounter, and make subs in particular a lot more dangerous. It can allow more cities to be connected via transports in a single move, which can be helpful. By using a carrier, it effectively can extend your arial range later in the game. And it also adds significantly to the power of a naval bombardment of a city. So this is nice, but I don't think it will turn the game for you, and can be captured if its important.

Turning to wonders that are less valuable, for me at least:

The UN is a bit of a two-edged sword. Personally, I prefer it when it's not built! I don't have trouble with my hawks and doves -- I find it fairly easy to provoke the AI to war if that's what I want anyway. Once at war, then I stay there until I'm ready to stop (often never) -- the last thing I want is the UN forcing ceasefires or peace treaties when I have the snivelling bastards by the throat! Once someone builds the UN, then you have the "imposed ceasefire" problem with that CIV, but only that CIV. But if you build it yourself, then you have the problem with everyone! (The same issues apply with the Great Wall -- but this also has the secondary problem that you have to build the city walls well before its effects expire anyway, otherwise you'll be caught with your pants down!)

Another couple of wonders that I don't usually build are Leonardo and Sun-Tzu, though I can see that there are lots of Leonardo fans here (and the movie is really nice). With Leonardo, the depressing thing is that it upgrades your veteran units to non-veteran replacements. Of course, you can look for appropriate battles to "toughen up" your green troops but this isn't always convenient. And then it expires just as things get interesting! I have a strong preference for veteran units, but Sun-Tzu still doesn't appeal to me much. I find that I still need plenty of barracks around for repairing units rapidly.

The Great Library can be of value, but often as a pre-emptive technique rather than a direct knowledge-builder. As others have pointed out, one would hope to be in the lead on technology. In deity mode that isn't always the case, and I have found myself sometimes building the Library either to keep up or, when ahead, to make it harder for other CIVs to keep up. But the other CIVs are pretty promiscuous in the knowledge trading anyway, especially when you're in the lead. And I usually just steal anything I need. And then the wonder expires anyway.

I don't have much else to add. The single city wonders are inherently limited (except Shakespeare's Theatre for the reason mentioned) and Pyramids is nice but may be over-rated as others have explained. The Manhattan project is just a pain in the neck but the AI will eventually build it if it gets the chance. The Oracle can be useful at the beginning, in a deity game, but it doesn't tend to last long. Same for the Lighthouse, though I can see that on certain maps that may be important anyway, even for a short time. I share the view that Darwin and Marco Polo are not worth the effort. And if you care about your reputation (as I do, for no very rational reason!) then the Eiffel Tower is probably better captured later in the game (to repair damage) then built earlier.

I hope these comments are stimulating!

All the best,
Steed
 
Steed, FYI, Bach's Cathedral effects all of your cities, not just those on the same continent. The description in the game's documentation is wrong.
 
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