who should i attack next? SAV included
- Thread starter web25
- Start date
ummm...
The military advisor told me we were strong to everyone on the planet. I tried to plant a spy with everyone, because I never end up doing this for one reason or another, and I managed with everyone except the Hittites. Unless the Hittites outnumber Korea, which I highly doubt, you basically outnumber everyone else on the planet combined. You also have superior units in terms of strength. I see you have accelerated production on. You don't need to defend all of your cities. You only need to defend cities that might get attacked/captured next turn. This basically means you never need to defend a city 4 or more squares in from your borders. If you wake all your units and only defend your borders (fortifying units in border towns *after* you have captured AI cities), I think it possible to shred everyone on this planet in a few turns... in this case even without all that many artillery proper. The only potential snags seem moving through AI territory, and the dim possibility that Korea builds a nuke.
With a reasonably strong military I might take out the strongest AI as my next war (I'm usually not THAT strong in my first war, when I play a conquest/domination game). Here that would mean Korea. That said, I think it possible to declare on everyone this turn and still probably shred them all to little bits in a few turns.
The military advisor told me we were strong to everyone on the planet. I tried to plant a spy with everyone, because I never end up doing this for one reason or another, and I managed with everyone except the Hittites. Unless the Hittites outnumber Korea, which I highly doubt, you basically outnumber everyone else on the planet combined. You also have superior units in terms of strength. I see you have accelerated production on. You don't need to defend all of your cities. You only need to defend cities that might get attacked/captured next turn. This basically means you never need to defend a city 4 or more squares in from your borders. If you wake all your units and only defend your borders (fortifying units in border towns *after* you have captured AI cities), I think it possible to shred everyone on this planet in a few turns... in this case even without all that many artillery proper. The only potential snags seem moving through AI territory, and the dim possibility that Korea builds a nuke.
With a reasonably strong military I might take out the strongest AI as my next war (I'm usually not THAT strong in my first war, when I play a conquest/domination game). Here that would mean Korea. That said, I think it possible to declare on everyone this turn and still probably shred them all to little bits in a few turns.
creamcheese
Spreading since 1990
I would go with Spoonwood's strategy of attack everyone at once. You have 188 Modern Armor and no one else has comparable forces. You should hit Korea first so they don't build any nukes, then keep plowing through whoever you like. Just keep building Modern Armor and attack until you win.
You could use some of that nice stack of artillery you have, or wait 2 turns to get radar artillery. Really though, you could just attack straight on with MA and win.
Although it does not matter much at this point in this game, you might want to stack your workers more in the future. They finish things more quickly that way.
You could use some of that nice stack of artillery you have, or wait 2 turns to get radar artillery. Really though, you could just attack straight on with MA and win.
Although it does not matter much at this point in this game, you might want to stack your workers more in the future. They finish things more quickly that way.
HagiaSophia
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2011
- Messages
- 73
Batter the entirety of everyone.
You're Babylon! You can own their minds and pockets anyway!
Bring 'em down!
You're Babylon! You can own their minds and pockets anyway!
Bring 'em down!
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
(For some reason I could not resist playing around with this. But for only part of one turn.)
Turnset CB01 1365 AD
Communism
20% Tax
70% Science
10% Luxury
9406 gold, +907 gpt
Robotics in 1 turns.
Seven of eight luxuries connected.
041 Worker
035 MechInfantry
188 Modern Armor
000 Arilllery
081 TOW Infantry
Current Units: 345
Allowed Units: 264
Support Costs: 81 gpt
Plans
Declare war on somebody, next turn.
No settlers around, none being built, either.
Military sorta scattered. A fair number of Regular units, too.
Lots of solo workers and slaves.
Wake up everybody, send them to the capital for sorting.
Swap some workers around to get rails done faster to connect the towns out west.
TOWs and MechInf are all Regular units.
Park units around the capital. Stick 3 TOWs in our border cities. Start to build some settlers.
[IBT]
Watch Korea and India fight.
Robotics -> Space Flight in 7 at 20%.
1 1370 AD
Automove workers for pollution cleanup.
Cranked out 9 settlers and 15 vMAs.
We have an MPP with Korea and had one with Mongols; theirs ended this last IBT. Both of them are at war with India. So we'll take on the Hittites.
We bully them for their World Map and their sole gold piece. Then we declare war.
Gordium: artillery damages the Rifles and a eMA takes them both out (2 of 2, 0 of 2e).
Hubishna: 1 TOW, 1 Pike, 0 problems (4 of 4, 0 of 3e).
Ugarit: TOW retreats eMA, but follow-up eMA takes it out and a Rifle (6 of 7, 0 of 5e).
We now control The Great Lighthouse.
Pasargadae: eMA saunters over a Rifle and Guerilla (8 of 9, 0 of 7e).
But, No!
An rSpear defends the city! We're doomed. We summon up another eMA, serve them a good meal and send them off to meet their fate and death. They advance over railed grassland and confront the Pointy Sticks of Doom. The treads stop, as the men make ready for this last assualt.
But to everyone's surprise, the Spears go down in defeat like the Dallas Cowboys in the playoffs. The eMA wins (9 of 10, 0 of 8e).
The city is kept.
The eMA is renamed to SpearKiller and sent to the capital for R&R.
Hittite Hullabalu is built to bring Sidon closer to our front lines. A barracks, granary, hydro plant and research lab are instantly built in this just christen city.
Sidon: eMA mows down Rifle and Guerilla, leaving another Spear as front line defense. Boldly, another eMA is called forth and it too shatters the Spears. These Spears inflict 1HP of damage, shaming this eMA (12 of 13, 0 of 11e).
Ankuwa: 2 TOWs defend, but fall to 1 eMA; rRifle is left, but not for long (15 of 16, 0 of 14e).
Hatusha: This is a city on a hill, defended by a vTOW. We send in 2 rMAs to wear it down; the first on retreats and the second dies, but the TOW is no longer top dog (15 of 18).
Three rMAs are needed to take out 2 Rifles (17 of 21).
eMA takes 3HPs from the redlined TOW, but prevails over it (18 of 22, 0 of 15e).
Hattusas: The capital is two tiles from the nearest border, so we will probe it with vMAs, saving our eMAs for easier kills as they try to promote.
The capital has 3 TOWs defending and two vMAs are lost to them (20 of 25).
Three Rifles claim 2 vMAs (22 of 29).
eMA takes out redlined TOW (23 of 30, 0 of 16e).
eMA smacks down yellowed Rifle and promotes to *ModernArmor_1370.1* (24 of 31, 1 of 17e).
Redlined Rifle is no match for vMA and Hittite capital is now ours (25 of 32).
The Temple of Artemis is ours, too.
Agum, our MGL, enters Hattusas and becomes an Army, Agum's Angels.
Aleppo: Two TOWs take out 4 vMAs before the TOWs are redlined out of the way. Then the Rifle and TOWs go down 1-2-3 (28 of 39).
vPike is left and doesn't slow down our eMA (29 of 40, 1 of 18e).
Tarsus, 2nd capital: Our first vMA is redlined but takes out the TOW, then we lose the next 6 battles (and 4 vMAs) on another TOW. Rifle and Guerilla go down, redlined vTOW kills a vMA and then we kill it (33 of 51).
The Knights Templar begin to wear our colors.
We also gain two artillery.
Hittite Horror brings Tyrana within one tile of our new border.
Tyrana, 3rd capital: conscript TOW and rRifle get batted away by a vMA, leaving rSpear. We bring in our last eMA to deal with it and they do, promoting to *ModernArmor_1370.2* and capturing this third Hittite capital (36 of 54, 2 of 19e).
Sumaubum builds Sunaubum's Singers.
Kadesh, 4th capital: Two Rifles and one Spear are quickly dispatched (39 of 57).
Well,this isn't nice. The last Hittite city, Harran, is two tiles from the nearest border, so we'll have to move the border. We move a settler and some vMAs 1S of Kadesh and then abandon it.
Last Hurrah is then built 1S of where Kadesh was and now Harran is accessible. We use our TOWs to grab 15 Hittite slaves.
Harran: Three captured Hittite artillery shell the two Rifles in Harran. Two vMAs do the rest (41 of 59).
However, one more city remains.
Double Check Your Count is placed SW of Gordium, to bring Adana with MA range.
Adana, 5th capital: We bring Agum's Angels from Hattusas, and they run over 2 TOWs (43 of 61).
Sunaubum's Singers come by to do a eulogy over 2 Rifles (45 of 63).
vMA ramrods another Rifle (46 of 64).
vPike pings a vMA (47 of 65).
Which gives us this:
Goodbye
And the save is attached.
Turnset CB01 1365 AD
Communism
20% Tax
70% Science
10% Luxury
9406 gold, +907 gpt
Robotics in 1 turns.
Seven of eight luxuries connected.
041 Worker
035 MechInfantry
188 Modern Armor
000 Arilllery
081 TOW Infantry
Current Units: 345
Allowed Units: 264
Support Costs: 81 gpt
Plans
Declare war on somebody, next turn.
No settlers around, none being built, either.
Military sorta scattered. A fair number of Regular units, too.
Lots of solo workers and slaves.
Wake up everybody, send them to the capital for sorting.
Swap some workers around to get rails done faster to connect the towns out west.
TOWs and MechInf are all Regular units.
Park units around the capital. Stick 3 TOWs in our border cities. Start to build some settlers.
[IBT]
Watch Korea and India fight.
Robotics -> Space Flight in 7 at 20%.
1 1370 AD
Automove workers for pollution cleanup.
Cranked out 9 settlers and 15 vMAs.
We have an MPP with Korea and had one with Mongols; theirs ended this last IBT. Both of them are at war with India. So we'll take on the Hittites.
We bully them for their World Map and their sole gold piece. Then we declare war.
Gordium: artillery damages the Rifles and a eMA takes them both out (2 of 2, 0 of 2e).
Hubishna: 1 TOW, 1 Pike, 0 problems (4 of 4, 0 of 3e).
Ugarit: TOW retreats eMA, but follow-up eMA takes it out and a Rifle (6 of 7, 0 of 5e).
We now control The Great Lighthouse.
Pasargadae: eMA saunters over a Rifle and Guerilla (8 of 9, 0 of 7e).
But, No!
An rSpear defends the city! We're doomed. We summon up another eMA, serve them a good meal and send them off to meet their fate and death. They advance over railed grassland and confront the Pointy Sticks of Doom. The treads stop, as the men make ready for this last assualt.
But to everyone's surprise, the Spears go down in defeat like the Dallas Cowboys in the playoffs. The eMA wins (9 of 10, 0 of 8e).
The city is kept.
The eMA is renamed to SpearKiller and sent to the capital for R&R.
Hittite Hullabalu is built to bring Sidon closer to our front lines. A barracks, granary, hydro plant and research lab are instantly built in this just christen city.
Sidon: eMA mows down Rifle and Guerilla, leaving another Spear as front line defense. Boldly, another eMA is called forth and it too shatters the Spears. These Spears inflict 1HP of damage, shaming this eMA (12 of 13, 0 of 11e).
Ankuwa: 2 TOWs defend, but fall to 1 eMA; rRifle is left, but not for long (15 of 16, 0 of 14e).
Hatusha: This is a city on a hill, defended by a vTOW. We send in 2 rMAs to wear it down; the first on retreats and the second dies, but the TOW is no longer top dog (15 of 18).
Three rMAs are needed to take out 2 Rifles (17 of 21).
eMA takes 3HPs from the redlined TOW, but prevails over it (18 of 22, 0 of 15e).
Hattusas: The capital is two tiles from the nearest border, so we will probe it with vMAs, saving our eMAs for easier kills as they try to promote.
The capital has 3 TOWs defending and two vMAs are lost to them (20 of 25).
Three Rifles claim 2 vMAs (22 of 29).
eMA takes out redlined TOW (23 of 30, 0 of 16e).
eMA smacks down yellowed Rifle and promotes to *ModernArmor_1370.1* (24 of 31, 1 of 17e).
Redlined Rifle is no match for vMA and Hittite capital is now ours (25 of 32).
The Temple of Artemis is ours, too.
Agum, our MGL, enters Hattusas and becomes an Army, Agum's Angels.
Aleppo: Two TOWs take out 4 vMAs before the TOWs are redlined out of the way. Then the Rifle and TOWs go down 1-2-3 (28 of 39).
vPike is left and doesn't slow down our eMA (29 of 40, 1 of 18e).
Tarsus, 2nd capital: Our first vMA is redlined but takes out the TOW, then we lose the next 6 battles (and 4 vMAs) on another TOW. Rifle and Guerilla go down, redlined vTOW kills a vMA and then we kill it (33 of 51).
The Knights Templar begin to wear our colors.
We also gain two artillery.
Hittite Horror brings Tyrana within one tile of our new border.
Tyrana, 3rd capital: conscript TOW and rRifle get batted away by a vMA, leaving rSpear. We bring in our last eMA to deal with it and they do, promoting to *ModernArmor_1370.2* and capturing this third Hittite capital (36 of 54, 2 of 19e).
Sumaubum builds Sunaubum's Singers.
Kadesh, 4th capital: Two Rifles and one Spear are quickly dispatched (39 of 57).
Well,this isn't nice. The last Hittite city, Harran, is two tiles from the nearest border, so we'll have to move the border. We move a settler and some vMAs 1S of Kadesh and then abandon it.
Last Hurrah is then built 1S of where Kadesh was and now Harran is accessible. We use our TOWs to grab 15 Hittite slaves.
Harran: Three captured Hittite artillery shell the two Rifles in Harran. Two vMAs do the rest (41 of 59).
However, one more city remains.
Double Check Your Count is placed SW of Gordium, to bring Adana with MA range.
Adana, 5th capital: We bring Agum's Angels from Hattusas, and they run over 2 TOWs (43 of 61).
Sunaubum's Singers come by to do a eulogy over 2 Rifles (45 of 63).
vMA ramrods another Rifle (46 of 64).
vPike pings a vMA (47 of 65).
Which gives us this:
Goodbye
And the save is attached.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
They are referred to as combat settlers and they are used to expand the borders of Babylon.
Here are the borders around Sidon right after Pasargadae was captured.
Pre Hittite Hullabalu
At this point, to attack Sidon, our 3 move Modern Armor has to traverse two tiles of Hittite grassland before they can attack. And while I cannot prove it, I feel like attacks on the last movement point of MAs are less successful than other attacks. Regardless of that, attacking on the last movement of the MAs mean that any attackers are stranded in that tile until next turn, and potentially open to AI counterattacks. Plus, since these units of ours can attack more than once per turn, spending one move point for each attack, we may miss some two-fer kills.
Post Hittite Hullabalu
The city was placed in what used to be neutral territory, 1W-1NW of Pasargadae. This area is already railed, which is a great help. Now our borders are only one tile away from Sidon. MAs can use rails to get to the border, move 1 tile into Hittitedom, be next to Sidon and attack, and, possibly, can attack again. Even if they are redlined, they can still be moved back across the border if Sidon doesn't fall, be moved into Sidon for crowd control if it does fall or be reinforced with move one units, like TOWs, will no problem.
All of the cities built were built and placed for tactical reasons. They were planted to help conquer cities faster and easier. Not for resources, not for luxuries, but strictly to make it the downfall of the Hittites occur in one turn.
What makes them work is border gaps inside AI territory caused by taking AI cities. In this case, the Hittite culture was a stronger than I thought and capturing Hattasus did not leave a culture vacuum as I had hoped, so Harran, the next to last city captured, really needed a combat settler/city to reach it.
I've attached the save from right after the fall of Pasargadae (cut02.sav). Try taking Sidon both with and without building a city 1W-1NW of Pasargadae and see how they differ.
Also, since you now it can be done, see if you can take out the Hittites in one turn. I started with the eastern borders, but the northern route works too. The cut01.sav files is from just after we declared war on the Hittites, after I had gotten all the units sorted as I wanted. No combat has begun.
Have fun!
Here are the borders around Sidon right after Pasargadae was captured.
Pre Hittite Hullabalu
At this point, to attack Sidon, our 3 move Modern Armor has to traverse two tiles of Hittite grassland before they can attack. And while I cannot prove it, I feel like attacks on the last movement point of MAs are less successful than other attacks. Regardless of that, attacking on the last movement of the MAs mean that any attackers are stranded in that tile until next turn, and potentially open to AI counterattacks. Plus, since these units of ours can attack more than once per turn, spending one move point for each attack, we may miss some two-fer kills.
Post Hittite Hullabalu
The city was placed in what used to be neutral territory, 1W-1NW of Pasargadae. This area is already railed, which is a great help. Now our borders are only one tile away from Sidon. MAs can use rails to get to the border, move 1 tile into Hittitedom, be next to Sidon and attack, and, possibly, can attack again. Even if they are redlined, they can still be moved back across the border if Sidon doesn't fall, be moved into Sidon for crowd control if it does fall or be reinforced with move one units, like TOWs, will no problem.
All of the cities built were built and placed for tactical reasons. They were planted to help conquer cities faster and easier. Not for resources, not for luxuries, but strictly to make it the downfall of the Hittites occur in one turn.
What makes them work is border gaps inside AI territory caused by taking AI cities. In this case, the Hittite culture was a stronger than I thought and capturing Hattasus did not leave a culture vacuum as I had hoped, so Harran, the next to last city captured, really needed a combat settler/city to reach it.
I've attached the save from right after the fall of Pasargadae (cut02.sav). Try taking Sidon both with and without building a city 1W-1NW of Pasargadae and see how they differ.
Also, since you now it can be done, see if you can take out the Hittites in one turn. I started with the eastern borders, but the northern route works too. The cut01.sav files is from just after we declared war on the Hittites, after I had gotten all the units sorted as I wanted. No combat has begun.
Have fun!
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Good point! I had forgotten about that, mostly because I don't think I used any artillery in attacking Sidon.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Mostly, I keep both cities, the conquered one and the one built to conquer it.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
It depends.
Civil unrest is based on the number of happy faces in the cities and if they outnumber the unhappy ones. In this game, at Warlord, a city has to be at size 4 (IIRC) before the next citizen is 'born' unhappy. The higher the difficulty, the lower that number becomes.
However, having luxuries connected makes citizens less unhappy. Markets help too, but you need four luxuries to benefit from markets.
Depending on your government, having military units in a city will reduce unhappiness also. Your government is Communist, so each military unit in a city will reduce unhappiness by 1, up to four units. In Republic or Democracy, that just doesn't work.
So, if you have a lot of luxuries (and you do) and a lot of markets (and you do), the need for MPs in the cities to keep them orderly pretty much goes away.
But, since you should never trust the AI, you should always keep units in the border cities. And that is why I garissoned the outer cities.
Now, once a city is captured, it may flip back to its original owners. Starving a city down to size 1, in addition to building workers/settlers, is an accepted way to deal with that. Even after everyone stops complaining about you being their new ruler, there are still some diehards that won't give in. MapStat and CivAssist II can give you exact numbers of how many units a city will need to become unflippable. Both can be downloaded here in the Civ III forum in the Customization and Creation subforum (the Modder's area).
web25
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2011
- Messages
- 186
thanks for all that info.
when i took out russia i razed a few of their cities, thinking most likely they would flip, they were size 20+ cities close to their capital. i did keep moscow because it had a few good wonders including my favorite. the rest as you could see from the saved game were just brought down building workers.
im going to add the military settler and give it a try.
when i took out russia i razed a few of their cities, thinking most likely they would flip, they were size 20+ cities close to their capital. i did keep moscow because it had a few good wonders including my favorite. the rest as you could see from the saved game were just brought down building workers.
im going to add the military settler and give it a try.
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