Who will take responsibility?

[baasacJak]

Are you kidding? "Please shut up" insulted you?

I've had private messages with more expletives than Scarface from users on these forums during my short membership, so I apologise if I have misjudged the tone of the forums.

Honestly! I'm just frustrated at people using the technical support forums for venting their frustration (I guess that includes me now too !!).

I did read a lot of similar posts before I felt obliged to have my say. Porcupine's certainly wasn't the worst, it was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Mr Cynical, I didn't read that you'd put the poll in the general discussion forum before my last post so I'll retract that bit if I may.

 

[Philips]

Well until you can turn up some numbers I remain very unconvinced on this. People who had the game work fine are less likely to turn up here in the first place.



Then all I can say is; lucky you. I've had plenty of games work worse than Civ 4, and several that had problems as bad or worse than anyone has reported for Civ 4. Have any of these since been patched to working state? Nope. Firaxis are very unusual in continuing to support and patch their games for some time after they're released.



I ask again: What do you want them to do? If it isn't patches you want then what is it? They are working to fix your problems, and bear in mind that most companies would simply ignore you now. As you've said, they have your money now, and they aren't going to make money out of patching. Is it that you want patches but are just going to complain and abuse them even though they are doing what you want? That's really going to encourage them to work on fixing things. I personally give them a certain amount of credit for listening at all given the insults, threats and incoherent ranting that has been going on in these forums. As for whether you should be grateful, let's just say that people are out there working on something for your benefit that they could get away without doing. If I was one of them, the ingratitude of some people here would very likely have removed any interest I had in helping.

You will remain unconvinced no matter what. The fact that people patrol the tech support areas posting messages denying that there are problems with the game disproves your point.

This is why the assumption that the forums are disproportionately representing people with problems:

http://www.aeginfo.com/clients.shtml

"AEG has helped 2K Games reach out to various online communities to introduce its titles to a broad audience, expanding online discussion and growing mindshare."

Here is how AEG "reaches out to various online communities":

http://www.elitebastards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12863

The current spin seems to be that "most people don't have any problems and that the people who do are just angry that the game wasn't perfect in it's first release"

Of course that is complete nonsense. You go to Amazon.com and read the reviews and compare them to reviews of other major titles to see that Civ IV falls short.

Obviously it is a patch that users want, one that fixes the major problems with the game.

 

[Philips]

Ok, I haven't read all the replies because there's a lot but here goes...

What's the point in holding a poll on a technical support forum? Won't there be a big bias towards people who are understandably fustrated with the game?

As for whoever mentioned not having problems in 20 years:
You lucky bugger , have you been playing lemmings for 20 years?

Does anyone actually believe that Firaxis want to make a game that most people can't play?

If you had taken the time to read the thread your reply might have been more sensible.

Obviously, I said that I have not had such major problems with a game ever. I have had plenty of games with problems but none this major were unfix-able. Either there were patches that fix the problems of I could use a particular release of my video driver or there was some other work-around. There were problems that went unfixed, but not to the point that the game would not run without frequent crashes.

A program that won't run is not the same as a graphics anomaly. Did you ever try to pawn off a program that was so unstable it wouldn't run on your customers? I have Doom 3, and it is not this bad.

I don't think Firaxis wants anything, as it is the property of Take2. I don't think Take2 wants the instability of the game to affect sales, but I do suspect that they have decided that it is cheaper to use PR to minimize the impact than to fix the problem.

 

[Mikesla]

Well, after reading the problems I have to admit something here. We are a very lazy society where gaming is concerned.

Back in the old days of gaming before the internet was a public ordeal, and when the bbsing community was small, companies who wrote games made sure that there product worked before they sent it off to the market place.

PATCHES???? What the heck were they? Never came across a patch for a game until the modem made it's appearence above 300 baud.

Gaming software companies have become so shoddy in the past ten years. They think that all they have to do is send out a patch, and cry a small tear when someone complains, and we forgive them, thats sounds too much like the way our Governments behave, and I send them at the bottom of the barrel to the Scumbag department.

Companies are to blame, and so are we, we let these people get away with when we purchase their next product, but with that in mind, when a company, and that is any company that has such strong roots on the gaming community such as this company, people look at what they produced in the past, and think that their past track record is top of the line so they buy something like Civ 4, and BOOM....

I have a great system, top of the line card, it's a great ATI so when I started this game up, ummmm okay it didn't start...so I even went as far as to re-install Windows XP (another poorly written piece of poo), and I didn't have the internet (just got it installed less than one week ago), so I had to wait, and wait...you know the deal.

So, I looked at the game cd's, and if you look at them, they are wrong. The play disk is not the play disk but only has a CAB file on it. The manuals are on a third disk for what reason I have no Idea why...If you take a look at the product, it was RUSHED out for the Christmas rush. It's those little things that just can be very annoying, such as RADEON is a big boy in the gaming hardware industry, so how can a company send out a game that doesn't work on ATI???? Very poor programming at it's best.

Perhaps The people who programmed this game should be working for Bill Gates not in the gaming industry.

As far as programming is concerned, I have done very little if none, but that does not allow the programmers to send out garbage.....REAL Programmers take their work seriously, and please save me from snickering at you folks for hiding behind that defense of telling me how hard it is to program, that is a cop-out of cop-outs....

Anyway...that is my say on this matter!

 

[MrCynical]

You will remain unconvinced no matter what. The fact that people patrol the tech support areas posting messages denying that there are problems with the game disproves your point.

No, it is possible to convince me, but it requires facts, not anecdotes or ranting.

Of course that is complete nonsense. You go to Amazon.com and read the reviews and compare them to reviews of other major titles to see that Civ IV falls short.

The one decent factual pointer you've given me. This is interesting as Civ 4 is only managing 2.5-3 stars compared to 3.5-4 for most of the games I'd consider to be of the same calibre. There are also large numbers of complaints about defective disks. These don't seem to be reflected on the equivalent European sites, which suggests the problem is a lousy packaging company in the US. While this is genuinely Take 2's fault, a patch really isn't going to help if the disks don't work in the first place.

What there don't seem to be are that many complaints of games running very badly (though there are a few on both European and American sites). Most of the one star ratings are people who either had bad disks or the normal few people who just like complaining.

I will therefore revise my comments. In the US there seem an excessive number of faulty disks (to say nothing of the earlier French tech tree and mislabelled disk issues). This isn't acceptable, and Take 2 should be doing something about it. This is however nothing to do with Firaxis and there is nothing they can do about it. I still reckon that there are relatively few people with functioning disks, but a game that crashes or is otherwise unplayable. So far my poll seems to be supporting that conclusion, but it needs some more time to get a decent sample size.

I must point out that my objections have been to the criticisms and abuse hurled at Firaxis, not Take 2. I've been generally unimpressed by the latter's work. Many people seem to be incapable of distinguishing between the two though. I still don't think the game has an unusual number of problems, but thanks to whatever shoddy company is packaging the game in the US there seem to be a lot of defective CDs, which people are incorrectly blaming on Firaxis as bad programming.

As for AEG, any big title is going to have a decent PR company behind it. Maybe they are roaming the forums, but I think you ought to be able to spot them if they are, and in any case there can't be that many of them. Plenty of the people with no problems have been here for years. My poll currently only has 100 votes in it so I'd like a lot more to rule out anyone biasing it. Please go and vote in it if you haven't, it only takes a few seconds. There's only been four people who've said it won't work at all and I though we'd had more than that complain in this thread!

So, I looked at the game cd's, and if you look at them, they are wrong. The play disk is not the play disk but only has a CAB file on it. The manuals are on a third disk for what reason I have no Idea why...

Perhaps The people who programmed this game should be working for Bill Gates not in the gaming industry.

Mikesla, see my above comments on dodgy disks. It's not the programmers fault if idiots in packaging can't label and put disks in the right boxes. Complaints should therefore be directed at them, or Take 2 for using them, not the programmers.

 

[Mikesla]

People tend to forget that not everyone has an internet account to get these patches for the games that should work reasonably well out of the box.

If you don't have the internet, whats left? Gaming magazines such as PC-Gamer has really gone to hell with it's CD patches as far as the other mags out there are concerned...I have no idea.

Got a freind with the internet? If you don't tough luck...if you do is it a dsl/cable or dial up? If it's dial up might as well toss the game because it could take you a lifetime to get the patch.


It's all about the internet for patching...this has given an open door for gaming companies to sell crap, make their money, and who cares about the guy who made that company big in the first place, they have your money...so sue me is their answer.


Oh well....

 

[Philips]

No, it is possible to convince me, but it requires facts, not anecdotes or ranting.



The one decent factual pointer you've given me. This is interesting as Civ 4 is only managing 2.5-3 stars compared to 3.5-4 for most of the games I'd consider to be of the same calibre. There are also large numbers of complaints about defective disks. These don't seem to be reflected on the equivalent European sites, which suggests the problem is a lousy packaging company in the US. While this is genuinely Take 2's fault, a patch really isn't going to help if the disks don't work in the first place.

What there don't seem to be are that many complaints of games running very badly (though there are a few on both European and American sites). Most of the one star ratings are people who either had bad disks or the normal few people who just like complaining.

As for AEG, any big title is going to have a decent PR company behind it. Maybe they are roaming the forums, but I think you ought to be able to spot them if they are, and in any case there can't be that many of them. Plenty of the people with no problems have been here for years. My poll currently only has 100 votes in it so I'd like a lot more to rule out anyone biasing it. Please go and vote in it if you haven't, it only takes a few seconds. There's only been four people who've said it won't work at all and I though we'd had more than that complain in this thread!

If you read the links I posted, then you know that one of AEGs techniques is to co-opt existing members of communities, so "people who have been here for years" can easily be posting on AEGs behalf.

Your comment about Amazon is funny! Yes, if you pretend that all the complaints about the bugs in the game are just people "who like to complain" and ignore them, then I guess you could claim that it is just people who got a defective disk. Unfortunately for your argument, anyone can read the Amazon reviews. The first one sums it up: "Not ready for prime time -- still a beta version".

Take2 bought Firaxis. People can't distinguish between the two for the same reason they can't distinguish between Chevy and GM. They are the same thing.


You are right on one thing about PR people: They are easy to spot. Just look for someone posting on a tech support who seems more interested in persuading people that there are no bugs in the game than seeking or providing tech support!

 

[StyxNCa]

baasacJak, I agree with you in some respects. I do get tired of coming into the forum and reading the same complaints over and over. I believe everyone has a right to speak their mind, however, and if I see a thread I don't want to read, I just don't read it. I don't tell people to shut up. As far as private messages, I don't receive any, so I have no idea what is said in those. However, the thing you were describing isn't something that is tolerated in the open forums, as far as I have seen.

 

[MrCynical]

Your comment about Amazon is funny! Yes, if you pretend that all the complaints about the bugs in the game are just people "who like to complain" and ignore them, then I guess you could claim that it is just people who got a defective disk. Unfortunately for your argument, anyone can read the Amazon reviews. The first one sums it up: "Not ready for prime time -- still a beta version".

Well I've read the "not ready for prime time" review you're referring to. It seems the person was unable to install the game, and is justifiably annoyed. However it still sounds more like a defective disk than a problem with the game itself to me, though it's hard to tell without more details. I might point out this first page has four defective disk complaints (I agree there's a problem there), three glowing reviews, one who didn't like the scenarios but gave it a moderate review, and one who had graphics problems. Only the last of these is an actual programming problem. I think that satisifies my argument that a lot of the complaints are due to defective disks, and so people are unable to install in the first place. As for the "people who always complain" I'm referring to the few people who give a game a 1/10, because there's a small feature they dislike. There's always a few, though I'm not suggesting there are many of them, and there aren't any on the first page of reviews.

Take2 bought Firaxis. People can't distinguish between the two for the same reason they can't distinguish between Chevy and GM. They are the same thing.

NO. They are not the same thing. Firaxis developed the game. Any problems with the actual code are therefore their fault. Take 2 published it, and so the defective disk issues are theirs. Different people work in each company, and it makes no sense to blame the developers for a screw up by their publishing company. If your boss screws up, is it your personal fault? Do I have the right to complain at and insult you for something he did? So what if they've bought Firaxis? The people haven't fused together in the process! The developers at Firaxis and the publishers at Take 2 are different people, and so you must distinguish between the two. Take 2 are in my opinion far more deserving of your complaints than Firaxis, and I'm sick of people blaming developers for things like defective disks which are nothing to do with them. If your complaint is with a game that is loaded, but not running well, then Firaxis are working on a patch, and further complaining is not going to accelerate its production. If your complaint is that you can't install it at all, or have other problems with defective disks then complain to Take 2, who actuially deserve it, not Firaxis.

You are right on one thing about PR people: They are easy to spot. Just look for someone posting on a tech support who seems more interested in persuading people that there are no bugs in the game than seeking or providing tech support!

Ah, what a surprise. If you won't listen to someone's arguments then undermine them by suggesting they're an undercover "official person" with a vested interest. Does it seem likely Take 2's PR company would want me to say Take 2 is doing a shoddy job (which they are)? I do not appreciate the insulting suggestion that I would stoop so low as to work undercover for a PR company. As to why I'm posting here, this thread was more suited to the general discussions forum in the first place. I might point out it was the first time in ages that I'd bothered posting in one of these threads. I was hoping to achieve something constructive with a poll, but it seems that isn't what is going to happen.

Still I will plough on anyway, and give another plug to my poll in the general discussion forum. Please vote so I can get some decent numbers on this.

Oh yes, one last point:

The play disk is not the play disk but only has a CAB file on it.

Mikesla, if there's a problem with the disks you've got a patch isn't going to help. Complain to wherever you got it from, or to Take 2, and try to get a replacement set.

 

[EricTred]

It is so easy to sit behind your keyboard and have a rant about who should get the blame.

I know from personal experience what it is like to write a program on one machine only for it not to work on another. It is virtually impossible to make software that is problem free for everyone. Can you imagine how many hardware/driver permutations there are out there?

Ok, so you say "No I don't expect it to run problem free on EVERY machine, I don't mean everyone, just the vast majority". There are under 24000 members on these forums, most of whom are not having problems with their civ4. Also, a lot of posts are from people who's hardware is below the minimum requirements and therefore not supported.

If you log into a forum full of people compaining about their civ4 problems, it's always going to look worse than it actually is. If the game had worked straight away for you, and you were only visiting forums where people are swapping civ4 tips & tactics or tales of how their last game went, you might not even know that people were having problems.

If you want games that always work when you pop the cd in, buy a console. Due to the diverse nature of the pc, there are always going to be a small minority of users who have problems, and their problems may never get sorted for their current hardware configuration. This does not give them the right to slag off people they have never met in a public forum.

He speaks the truth , if you were'nt so full of yourself you would have seen it .
And dont give me any crap about how you write programs blah , blah , blah !

If you can't make a game to run on multi- pc platforms ...I got news for you .....YOU SHOULDNT BE IN THE SOFTWARE BUSINESS!!

I 'm really sick of these (yes I'm flamming) people trying protect what I think is the worst release of a game (bug wise) since the intial release of the online stars wars game!

And I will slag off people like you who don't seem to get it . We paid are 60 $ just like everyone else and we WANT results plain and simple. Its not an option its are paid in cash right to get a product that WORKS PERIOD !!

Not.... wait for the expansion to release another patch , thats unacceptable.
Bottom line is this they got me for my 60 bucks ,ok cool.... you won't get me again and I got dozens of friends that play these games who agree ....and they all got their dozens of friends their warning to !
I totally agree with the op's post , he touched on the exact things that I have thought of too , it seems the norm now for PC compaines to put out lame software products that don't work or are just horribly rushed to market.

The only satifaction I have gotten was when I heard the Firaxis or 2k's gamming office got torched for real. Its sad that I have to feel that way but when you lose about 500$ a year buying lame software titles that are buggy, dont work , need constant patching, no real tech support, and just hiding behind the lame awards they get from lobbying butt kissing the game mags reps.
Thats another gripe I got to , those game mags should also held responsible to for saying how great the game is when in reality its still in it 2 week of development.

I just hope SOON laws are created to help protect the gammers from this CONSTANT abuse by these lame software compaines.
Because we waste alot of time and money on are hobbie. I don't expect a perfect world were everything runs great but 5 out of 6 titles that run like crap should be sending a message that something is wrong with the industry as a whole.

I'm not a computer tech , I'm a computer gammer, I shouldnt have to spent a work weeks worth of time trying to find the sweet spot in my system configuration !

And for the guy I'm quoting your numbers are WRONG look at the total number of posts that have been in tech support.... loser.... get your head out of firaxis arse ok ...you look and sound stupid

If it wasent for the few diehard fans of Civ 4 helping me trying to solve my computer woes ( I have like double the system requirements to run this game so it seems) I would be playing a new style of frisbie ..expensive one at that!

Flame on

later

 

[EricTred]

Well until you can turn up some numbers I remain very unconvinced on this. People who had the game work fine are less likely to turn up here in the first place.



Then all I can say is; lucky you. I've had plenty of games work worse than Civ 4, and several that had problems as bad or worse than anyone has reported for Civ 4. Have any of these since been patched to working state? Nope. Firaxis are very unusual in continuing to support and patch their games for some time after they're released.



I ask again: What do you want them to do? If it isn't patches you want then what is it? They are working to fix your problems, and bear in mind that most companies would simply ignore you now. As you've said, they have your money now, and they aren't going to make money out of patching. Is it that you want patches but are just going to complain and abuse them even though they are doing what you want? That's really going to encourage them to work on fixing things. I personally give them a certain amount of credit for listening at all given the insults, threats and incoherent ranting that has been going on in these forums. As for whether you should be grateful, let's just say that people are out there working on something for your benefit that they could get away without doing. If I was one of them, the ingratitude of some people here would very likely have removed any interest I had in helping.

Take your polls and shove it ok... they don't mean squat...ok my game still does not work .... reguardless of what your lame arse fixed polls say

 

[EricTred]

Well until you can turn up some numbers I remain very unconvinced on this. People who had the game work fine are less likely to turn up here in the first place.



Then all I can say is; lucky you. I've had plenty of games work worse than Civ 4, and several that had problems as bad or worse than anyone has reported for Civ 4. Have any of these since been patched to working state? Nope. Firaxis are very unusual in continuing to support and patch their games for some time after they're released.



I ask again: What do you want them to do? If it isn't patches you want then what is it? They are working to fix your problems, and bear in mind that most companies would simply ignore you now. As you've said, they have your money now, and they aren't going to make money out of patching. Is it that you want patches but are just going to complain and abuse them even though they are doing what you want? That's really going to encourage them to work on fixing things. I personally give them a certain amount of credit for listening at all given the insults, threats and incoherent ranting that has been going on in these forums. As for whether you should be grateful, let's just say that people are out there working on something for your benefit that they could get away without doing. If I was one of them, the ingratitude of some people here would very likely have removed any interest I had in helping.

You make me laugh ....How much does FirASSis pay you anyway.. must be not much after thier office got torched ROTFLMAO

 

[EricTred]

I'm just pointing out that if you want someone to do something, insulting them is unlikely to help.

In the interests of settling the debate on how many people are having problems with Civ 4 I've started a new poll on the subject in the general discussions forum. Even if you are planning to give up and leave can you please vote in this, as I would like some accurate numbers on this point.

Well then why did you post to begin with then ....taps foot waits for another dumbarse firASSis butt kissing answer

 

[EricTred]

I quote the above for total agreement. If you want a game that works perfectly as it should then get a console. The reason that console games work out of the box is because the developers know EXCATLY what the console hardware is and can do. There is just far too many variables in PC systems today and it is little wonder that most programs have problems running correctly on a small minority of systems. The patches are FREE and they do actually fix some issues so credit is due in my opinion for correcting the mistakes made on release. Do you think the companies actually want to make patches and deal with issues in their products for months on end without making a dime from it??? This is will be a hard learnt lesson for some people, that I have little doubt of.

If they can't handle that then I suggest that they get out of gamming . Sorry zan but the only thing I can agree on in your post is that we disagree, they are responsible quit giving they a lame leg to stand on , the product sucs and that all there is to it, if it works for you ...awesome I'm glad your not going thou the headaches the rest of us -1% are having as posted by another daydreaming poster !

 

[baasacJak]

Unfortunately for you Eric, nobody is going to take any of your posts seriously. You are undermined by your glaringly obvious stupidity:

1) Your "clever" puns (yes, I think everybody got the firASSis one before you put the laughing smiley in)
2) You laugh at your own jokes (did you notice that you're the only one laughing?)
3) Your shocking spelling and grammar (what the hell is a 'gammer' and what is 'flamming'? Did you mean gamer and flaming by any chance?). I think you should look up the word "are" in the dictionary, and when you do, flick through to "our".
4) Rather than back up your arguments with facts (take a look at the member list, there are 23585 users), you choose to use swear words. Well done!
5) You 'bite the hand that feeds you' when you call MrCynical names, he has contributed immensly with helping people find solutions, but I guess you proved him right in the end: "..if you want someone to do something, insulting them is unlikely to help." has he helped you yet?

I would suggest that you seem too young to be playing a computer game that is rated 12+ anyway. Go back to school and learn how to communicate with other human beings without offending them.

 

[Dakota Strider]

I am not one that regularly frequents forums, much less respond to them. The only reason that I am here, is because my Civ4 game is still not working correctly, after purchasing it on the release date. I have come here looking for solutions (after first visiting the official Civ4 site). But instead of finding any solutions, the only responses to legitimate complaints, are people attacking those of us that have problems with the product that we purchased.

For those that think the percentage of people who are having problems is very low, just because they are having no problems themselves, then they need to reconsider this: As a business owner myself, I know that many customers, if unsatisfied with product or service, will silently just quit patronizing a business. The amount of people that actually complain is a very small percentage.

What really surprises me about a lot of these responses, are the people that apparently have perfect copies of Civ4 that run flawlessly on their computers, are spending their time here attacking those of us that are not happy, rather than playing Civ4. If my game was working with even less than half the problems I encounter, I would be playing, not wasting my time here. I had not considered the possibility of the "guerilla " propaganda until I read this particular thread. But after reading some of the comments here, that makes a lot of sense. Of course some of the people who are attacking the vocal minority of us that have problems, sound too stupid to even work for Firaxis.

I have been playing computer games for over 20 years, and while this is not the very worst product I have bought, it probably rates as the most disappointing game I have ever purchased. Its not like most of us having problems are playing this on machines that we put together from spare parts. For the millions of dollars the Civ franchise has made, and for how much it expects to make from this title, you would expect better quality control.

I am sure that most of us would have been disappointed if Civ4 had been postponed until many of the problems had been fixed. However, I think the majority of us would have appreciated that Firaxis would have rather waited and put out a quality product than rush something to the stores for a quick profit. There is another software company many of you have probably heard of called Bethesda. They were scheduled to release The Elder Scrolls IV, as a coincidence, also in November 2005. However, they deemed the product not yet ready. So instead of shipping a shoddy game to make as much as they could by releasing it for the holiday shopping season, they have postponed their release until March 2006. Bethesda lost a lot of money in the short-term. However, because of the respect they have showed their customers, by not releasing a game until it was ready, will surely pay off for them in the long run. In contrast, how much future business has Firaxis and the rest of the companies involved in the release of Civ 4 lost because they were more concerned with making a quick profit by making their product release date, instead of delaying it to save their customers all the aggravation they have caused?

 

[Akhenaton]

Its not like most of us having problems are playing this on machines that we put together from spare parts.

Maybe, but I am. In fact, I put together my first PC that way back in 1993 after using various Commodores, and I even have one piece from that very machine still running today in this gaming box, can you guess what it is? And it runs CivIV rather nicely, thank you very much!

The great thing about having lots of spare HW lying around after building other machines, is that if you suspect a HW problem causing something, you can just swap a few parts and verify if it makes any difference...

 

[MrCynical]

I have come here looking for solutions (after first visiting the official Civ4 site). But instead of finding any solutions, the only responses to legitimate complaints, are people attacking those of us that have problems with the product that we purchased.

@DakotaStrider: Who's been attacking you? It would be very unfair in your case. I've read your description of your problem in the Fix-it-list, but I haven't given you a solution because I don't know of one. Sorry . Yours is a legitimate complaint, and is programming rather than bad disk, so this one is Firaxis' fault. I don't attack people for having problems, I merely object if they are blaming Firaxis for Take 2's mistakes. I will always offer a solution or suggestion if I know something that I think will help. In your case all I can say is that I hope the next patch will help.

I am sure that most of us would have been disappointed if Civ4 had been postponed until many of the problems had been fixed. However, I think the majority of us would have appreciated that Firaxis would have rather waited and put out a quality product than rush something to the stores for a quick profit.

This is the one little bit I will slightly object to. Firaxis had no say in when Civ 4 was released. Take 2 moved the deadline forward a month and Firaxis had no choice but to comply with it. Complaints on this score should therefore be aimed at Take 2.

For those that think the percentage of people who are having problems is very low, just because they are having no problems themselves, then they need to reconsider this: As a business owner myself, I know that many customers, if unsatisfied with product or service, will silently just quit patronizing a business. The amount of people that actually complain is a very small percentage.

Well a poll here is about the best I can do to try and find out how large a percentage it is. Please take the time to vote in it. I'm just hoping a sufficiently large proportion of those with problems will find it while looking for a fix on here.

What really surprises me about a lot of these responses, are the people that apparently have perfect copies of Civ4 that run flawlessly on their computers, are spending their time here attacking those of us that are not happy, rather than playing Civ4. If my game was working with even less than half the problems I encounter, I would be playing, not wasting my time here.

I am spending a lot of time playing Civ 4, since it's a very good game when it works . I'm still trying to beat emperor level, which is proving harder than I expected. I spend some time on here though offering solutions where I know them, and discussing strategies. It just annoys me when I see someone blaming Take 2 for Firaxis' mistakes, so I have a tendency to rant.

I have been playing computer games for over 20 years, and while this is not the very worst product I have bought, it probably rates as the most disappointing game I have ever purchased. Its not like most of us having problems are playing this on machines that we put together from spare parts. For the millions of dollars the Civ franchise has made, and for how much it expects to make from this title, you would expect better quality control.

And I would too. The number of defective disks is ridiculous.

I am sure that most of us would have been disappointed if Civ4 had been postponed until many of the problems had been fixed. However, I think the majority of us would have appreciated that Firaxis would have rather waited and put out a quality product than rush something to the stores for a quick profit. There is another software company many of you have probably heard of called Bethesda. They were scheduled to release The Elder Scrolls IV, as a coincidence, also in November 2005. However, they deemed the product not yet ready. So instead of shipping a shoddy game to make as much as they could by releasing it for the holiday shopping season, they have postponed their release until March 2006. Bethesda lost a lot of money in the short-term. However, because of the respect they have showed their customers, by not releasing a game until it was ready, will surely pay off for them in the long run. In contrast, how much future business has Firaxis and the rest of the companies involved in the release of Civ 4 lost because they were more concerned with making a quick profit by making their product release date, instead of delaying it to save their customers all the aggravation they have caused?

Betheseda are quite unusual in being willing to delay games (in the case of Morrowind for years). I think we'd better wait to see what Oblivion is like before we say whether it paid off though. As for how much buisness Firaxis and the other companies have lost, I expect it's substantial. This annoys me as Firaxis is taking the blame for Take 2 moving the release date forward, as I've already said.

 

[Renobe]

It is so easy to sit behind your keyboard and have a rant about who should get the blame.

I know from personal experience what it is like to write a program on one machine only for it not to work on another. It is virtually impossible to make software that is problem free for everyone. Can you imagine how many hardware/driver permutations there are out there?

Ok, so you say "No I don't expect it to run problem free on EVERY machine, I don't mean everyone, just the vast majority". There are under 24000 members on these forums, most of whom are not having problems with their civ4. Also, a lot of posts are from people who's hardware is below the minimum requirements and therefore not supported.

If you log into a forum full of people compaining about their civ4 problems, it's always going to look worse than it actually is. If the game had worked straight away for you, and you were only visiting forums where people are swapping civ4 tips & tactics or tales of how their last game went, you might not even know that people were having problems.

If you want games that always work when you pop the cd in, buy a console. Due to the diverse nature of the pc, there are always going to be a small minority of users who have problems, and their problems may never get sorted for their current hardware configuration. This does not give them the right to slag off people they have never met in a public forum.

You do not know what your talking about. If you are a programmer, your probably are a poor one. One of the most complicated programs is a operating system. I dont see windows not running on a few machines. I suspect you are connected to Firaxis.

 

[Fatty]

This PR forum lurker thing is bugging me. I remember reading years ago about how liquour companies would plant people in bars to order "fancy" drinks with a certain type of booze in them as a means of marketing.

Please don't take this the wrong way MrCynical... i don't mean any offence, but you do come off super pro-firaxis. I've never heard anyone defend a company like this who isn't somehow related. I'm sure the game is great if it works for you, but no game is good enough to have you hanging out in the tech forum countering every point made against firaxis.

Also, 1,110 posts since october? It's almost a full time job posting that much. If you don't mind me asking, what is it that you do for a living?

Again, i honestly do not mean to offend. But you have to admit, it seems really suspicious.

Fatty