Who's not playing until a patch comes out?

[fugazi]

I surely am not playing until they patch this game, making it (at least?) somewhat playable.

 

[dalgo]

I'm happy with the game just as it is. I'm having a lot of fun playing and learning to avoid some of the more irritating quirks along the way but there is nothing here to stop me playing the game completely. I'm sure it can and will be improved with a patch but I'd rather they took their time and made sure they got it right rather than rushing out an incomplete patch that still contained bugs.

Is it acceptable to treat the buying public as beta-testers? Of course not. But hey this is the real world, it's happened before and will certainly happen again.

 

[Dale]

You forgot two options:

No, I'm playing with the unofficial patch
No, I'm playing with one of the fix mods

 

[MaxellSnow]

I hate to start a battle but I am curious, what makes this game so unplayable for those that voted waiting for a patch?

 

[Viperace]

I hate to start a battle but I am curious, what makes this game so unplayable for those that voted waiting for a patch?

I keep winning in hardest difficulty in 40 turns ... at this rate, I ma gonna get bored real soon.

 

[Dale]

I keep winning in hardest difficulty in 40 turns by using exploits in the game instead of playing the game in a way to have fun ... at this rate, I ma gonna get bored real soon because I lack the ability to actually play the game as intended and have to "break" the game as fast as possible to prove that I'm THAT good and then spend the next two weeks on the forums bragging about how fast I broke the game to try and look cool!.

Edited.

 

[Amerigo Arturo]

Damn fine edit.

 

[The_Dwarf]

I hate to start a battle but I am curious, what makes this game so unplayable for those that voted waiting for a patch?

The problem is that you cant loose (no matter which difficulty level) if you know how to exploit the game - and that makes it totally boring to play.

 

[Dale]

Then don't exploit it.

 

[Becephalus]

Dale I think that was rather unfair to the poster. These are not your typical exploits where you are doing things to intentionally trick the AI that have nothing to do with the overall game flow (I for one never tech traded with the AI once in any civ game, just too easy to exploit). They are basic design decisions dealing with the core game elements that are badly flawed which make playing the game as intended a BAD IDEA.

The whole point of games is to have players make decisions, and reward them for those decisions with success and fun. When you ask players to make poor decisions to get the success it really eats into people's enjoyment. Particularly anyone who understands the mechanics in the game. Understanding games typically makes them more fun not less so...

This is just as bad as GalCiv2, which because of the ill conceived "production focus" feature it never (and I mean NEVER) made sense to build anything but ALL labs or ALL factories. It wasn't a mistake you could make excuses for. It was a horrible design decision.

Giving the players more tools is often a bad thing. That one increased the micro of even normal play, made the AI relatively a lot weaker because it couldn't handle the mechanic well, AND made the best types of strategies incredibly boring and micro heavy. Yet rather than admit they made a mistake and remove the mechanic they just dug in their heels and left the game broken (at least for several months, I and my friends who used to play it never went back (and they should know, never bought the other two expansions)).

I would really love to be able to play Colonization some day and hope it doesn't go down the same route, and your Pollyanna attitude to people's legitimate concerns is not helping. I am glad you and some others can enjoy the game in its current state. That is great for you.

But denigrating the views of the apparently large number of people who are not happy (and presumably you agree that some bad decisions were made even if you are willing to live with them), I don't see how you are helping the process. Maybe you don't like the negative atmosphere around here, but you know what, go to a board from a game that didn't have big holes in it as released and the atmosphere is a lot better!

Pretending everything is just fine is what kills games like MOO3 (A game which had so much potential and was so poorly done, and then never fixed).

 

[Dale]

Before you go all "you fanboi" on me, take a look at the multitude of posts from me discussing the flaws in the game. Also, you might want to note who is co-author of the unofficial patch, and patchmod. If anything, I've been one of the most critical of the game's checks and balances.

Yes the game has issues, but that is no reason to imply there is only one way to play this game, and that one way you must use exploits. Yes, you CAN win in 30 turns on revolutionary, but you don't HAVE to. It's a choice. You choose to exploit and win in 30 turns, or you choose to play the way it was designed to be played and have fun. It's like me saying "I used god mode and defeated Allied Assualt in 4 hours!" I COULD do that and lose all fun, or I COULD play the game how it's supposed to be played and get weeks of fun out of it.

You might also want to note that the poster did post a very "oh look at me I'm the best because I beat revolutionary in 40 turns" thread, so my edit was very justified (and pretty funny).

 

[centrelink4]

Yes the game has issues . . . there is only one way to play this game . . . exploit and win in 30 turns.

Oh Oh, Oh dear, dear me sorry I almost died from the hilarity of my own super funny edit!!!!!!!

Lets not eh, it aint funny.

It's a choice. You choose to exploit and win in 30 turns, or you choose to play the way it was designed to be played and have fun.

Whats the designed time - 31 turns 41 turns? How many becomes fun?

Isnt it 'designed' to be won as fast as possible?

Nothing rewards you for making a country, everything focuses on go go go. People SHOULD be bragging about beating it in record time, because thats the way its designed.

 

[Shiggs713]

Becephalus I just wanted to say that tech trade is NOT an exploit, if your playing on say emperor difficulty or higher (on Civ4). Have you seen how ridiculous the AI is when trading on difficult levels? You practically have to give them techs that require 3 times more science beakers. The real exploit is vassals.

 

[fugazi]

Dale, good for you that you enjoy playing a broken product but other consumers obviously do not agree. You can either keep on running into a wall, telling us we're wrong or simply accept that this game isn't what it should be. Yes, I could perhaps download your patch but I rather just get one from the people I bought this game from - they shouldn't have shipped this steaming pile of crap in it's current form.

 

[L_Clan_Dalamar]

I don't play as much as I thought I would truth be told. Playing now and then with Dale's patch though. (Thanks!)

Unfortunately, right now there are some things just don't make sense, and the main strength of Civilization has always been that it was realistic in a very fictional sort of way. Yea, that doesn't make sense, but I think you all got what I mean, being Civ players and all.

 

[Thundercracker]

I think centrelink4 makes the important point. This isn't simply an exploit like tech brokering in Civ4, this is a fundamental flaw in the basic game mechanic. Beating the REF is goal of the game, and even a simple understanding allows you complete control over its size at all times. This isn't just a matter of not using one narrow technique to win in 30 turns. Everyone, every game has to decide how big to let the REF to be. How big does it need to be to not be an exploit?

More than that, there's a host of broken functions in this game that have to be accounted for. First, I said I couldn't attack other Europeans in the first 100 turns. But even then they die too easily, so I decided I couldn't attack them directly, only through Indians and Privateers. Still, they are impotent, so now I can only use 1 privateer at a time and can only sell guns to one Indian tribe. Its too simple to win if I buy guns/horses/tools in Europe, so now I can only buy a limited number at the beginning and have to make my own after that.

At some point, with all these concessions, it gets ridiculous. I play the game to try to win, not to keep coming up wins ways to make myself loose

 

[Dale]

Dale, good for you that you enjoy playing a broken product but other consumers obviously do not agree. You can either keep on running into a wall, telling us we're wrong or simply accept that this game isn't what it should be. Yes, I could perhaps download your patch but I rather just get one from the people I bought this game from - they shouldn't have shipped this steaming pile of crap in it's current form.

I don't play vanilla, only PatchMod or AoD2. Purely because Snoopy and I have created a much more fun environment.

But even so, I was still enjoying vanilla with all it's problems. Why? Because I played it to enjoy it, not to exploit it. And that's the difference.

This game CAN be enjoyed, if you want to enjoy it. If you choose to play in a way that exploits the game, then there is no one else to blame but yourself. Stop . .. .. .. .. .ing about the game because of what YOU chose. The people who choose to recognise these exploits and not use then are having a lot of fun with the game.

 

[Bad Brett]

This game CAN be enjoyed, if you want to enjoy it. If you choose to play in a way that exploits the game, then there is no one else to blame but yourself. Stop . .. .. .. .. .ing about the game because of what YOU chose. The people who choose to recognise these exploits and not use then are having a lot of fun with the game.

No it can't, at least not if you have the slightest amount of fighting spirit. To me, strategy games are all about winning. If I play a game of chess, my goal is to take out my opponents king. If I play a game of NHL09, my goal is to score more goals than my opponent. For most people, games are about winning. If I just feel like messing around, I may design something in 3D Studio or write a program in C sharp.

The thing is Dale, that you contradict yourself. You tell us that we shouldn't use the exploits, but guess what? You exploit the game yourself! You don't generate liberty bells from the beginning. Why? To keep the REF from growing. Please tell why this is a good strategy while declaring independence early is exploiting the game.

 

[uppi]

I don't play vanilla, only PatchMod or AoD2. Purely because Snoopy and I have created a much more fun environment.

But even so, I was still enjoying vanilla with all it's problems. Why? Because I played it to enjoy it, not to exploit it. And that's the difference.

This game CAN be enjoyed, if you want to enjoy it. If you choose to play in a way that exploits the game, then there is no one else to blame but yourself. Stop . .. .. .. .. .ing about the game because of what YOU chose. The people who choose to recognise these exploits and not use then are having a lot of fun with the game.

The problem is, that the game punishes having fun and rewards exploiting. Stop telling people to have fun, if they are clearly not able to. Not everyone is masochistic enough to endure the pain the game is throwing at you if you play it properly.

If you can win on the hardest difficulty on turn 30 the game is broken. Full stop. No excuses. Sure, you can play with one or both hands tied behind your back. But this kills any semi-competitive play and any strategy discussion, because the player base is too fragmented. There will be no great discussion what kind economy is better, because this depends on the long list of things you refrain from doing.

Fortunately the game is very modable and it is possible to modify it in a way that makes it impossible to win on turn 30 (on a difficulty higher than pilgrim) and makes it rewarding to build a thriving colony. And once you do that the game can actually be fun without restricting yourself. Sure the AI is still pathetic, but before a competitive AI can be made the game has to be roughly balanced first (At the moment, the "best" AI would be one, that knows how to win on turn 40).

However, mods that address the flaws of the original game are no substitute for a real patch. There won't be much of strategy discussion until there is a standard non-broken set of rules out there. And I really hope that Firaxis does the effort to make a patch that rebalances the parts that are broken.

Until then I don't even have to read the strategy forum, because the way I think the game should be played and the way I play my own mod would end in total disaster for anyone paying with the standard rules.

 

[ColPaladin]

I have been playing the game, very little, and only a bit now and then, but only thanks to Dale/Snoopy and all their hard work on the mod-patch (thanks guys). I'm waiting for some kind of official patch, or even ONE post from ONE dev about what's going on with the game. But seriously, the very fact that we need to play using a "jury rigged" mod to make up for the terrible state the game was released in, is proof in of itself that there are large holes in this game.

Saying "Just don't do A, B, C, or D exploits, use reverse logic for the flaws E through J, and use the workarounds for the bugs in K through Z, and your'll enjoy the game" is reallllllly pushing the fanboy factor; there should have never been A though Z in the first place. . .