Why are people so opposed to building wonders?

[Theov]

Sure the Theory of Evolution is nice, but if you're in the tech lead it really doesn't matter. And if you're behind odds are someone will build it before you anyway.

The turn from the medieval to the Industrial age is THE time to get back though.
Magnetism and Navigation should get you in contact with all the AIs, making tech trade easier and cheaper.
Then, when you have steam power, you should be at peace mostly and have built workers to focus on railroads completely the moment you can build them. The sooner you rail everything before the AI does, the better. You have a brain, so you can outrail the AI.
With rails, the science should boost, the production should boost and getting Scientific Method should be second on the To Do list.
Get it and build ToE, after these steps you have either caught up with the AI or walked away from them.

 

[timerover51]

I can't agree with the civfanatics war academy. First of all the great library if completed will give you technology all the way up to education so you might as well turn off your science completely and make money as your tech is handed to you. The statue of zeus and Knights Templar are a must considered how overpowered the civ that owns them are. I have been wiped out several times when ancient cavalry gather at my land. They have the mobility to take multiple cities and end a war almost instantly. Sun Tsu if you can get it gives you barracks is every city on the continent. Now I understand why you wouldn't want to build the colossus or pyramids on your first turn as that would leave you defenseless but if you have enough cities it isn't bad to build wonders.

Going back to the original issue, what it boils down to, Immortal7777, is how YOU want to play the game. Not how people tell you to play it and not how the War Academy tells you to play it, but how YOU want to play it.

I personally like to build things, and dislike spending massive amounts of time battling the AI, micromanaging hordes of workers to railroad everything in sight, clear all forests in a frenzy to speed building, and cram cities together as closely as possible. I did not really enjoy the game, as I refuse to play that way, until I started modifying it. Now, I have FUN and enjoy playing the game.

 

[Immortal7777]

@vmxa

You only focused on the KT when taking multiple cities, yes Chivalry is optional but for the SOZ you get that as soon as you get mathematics and are lucky enough to have ivory. Something built in ancient times can make you OP and it's easy to rely on because not to many civs have Ivory. It is a actually rare and in the Map I downloaded based off the real world it's the Zulu/Carthage some African civ that gets it and the ancient cavalry have a great mobility. I have seen them kill musketmen before which is why when somebody builds it I am forced to destroy the civ As soon as possible to prevent them accumulating an army of Ancient cavalry.


@ Timerover51

Thank you. I cannot agree with the WA.

It's overpowered. KT Is still a threat if left unchecked.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Going back to the original issue, what it boils down to, Immortal7777, is how YOU want to play the game. Not how people tell you to play it and not how the War Academy tells you to play it, but how YOU want to play it.

I personally like to build things, and dislike spending massive amounts of time battling the AI, micromanaging hordes of workers to railroad everything in sight, clear all forests in a frenzy to speed building, and cram cities together as closely as possible. I did not really enjoy the game, as I refuse to play that way, until I started modifying it. Now, I have FUN and enjoy playing the game.

But you don't sound like you are having fun. You sound bitter.

 

[timerover51]

Not sure why you would say that. I do have a very dim view of people telling other people how to play the game.

Right now, I am trying to figure out how the AI chooses government types in a couple of mods. I am also having some fun with Torosaurus cavalry in a variation of TETurkhan's Test of Time scenario, although I think that I may have overdone the Dinosaur combat specs a bit, as they are wreaking havoc in Africa, and making life miserable for the Abyssinians. And I am playing around with Gojira's Pangaea mod, seeing what mix of added movement costs for coast, sea, and ocean works best. And last but not least, trying to figure out how to win the Age of Discovery scenario and the World Map mod of it as the Dutch. That is quite interesting. Keep working on variations, but then the AI keeps doing odd things. Overall, I find it quite interesting.

 

[vmxa]

@vmxa

You only focused on the KT when taking multiple cities, yes Chivalry is optional but for the SOZ you get that as

soon as you get mathematics and are lucky enough to have ivory. Something built in ancient times can make you OP

and it's easy to rely on because not to many civs have Ivory. It is a actually rare and in the Map I downloaded

based off the real world it's the Zulu/Carthage some African civ that gets it and the ancient cavalry have a

great mobility. I have seen them kill musketmen before which is why when somebody builds it I am forced to

destroy the civ As soon as possible to prevent them accumulating an army of Ancient cavalry.

It's overpowered. KT Is still a threat if left unchecked.

If I can build the KT, the level is too easy and I can do anything I want. Not sure what you mean by "multiple

cities". I am taking all the cities as I mostly play conquest. If you mean 4 or more towns in a turn, that

signals an easy game, at the start of the Middle Age.

I do not ever recall using Crusaders to wage a serious war. They are too slow. Too slow to move and too slow to

accumulate. I can't wait 40 turns at that stage to get 8 units. Units that will move one tile a turn.

I did not speak to the SoZ, so not sure why you brought that up. It is a special wonder that as you noted, requires Ivory. So you mostly do not have that and often, if you do have it, it is not availble at the time of Math. If it is available, then I am going to build it, if the level allows it. As I mostly play AWE or Sid, it is not easy to get. AWE I can get, at Sid I do not have a shot. I won't have math nearly in time.

I would not say to not build wonders in the AA, only that it should not be done in a knee jerk fashion. That is to say, I have the tech, so lets build it. That is what you see in weak game, same for all structures. It needs to use useful and cost effective or a critical build. Not just I have the item in my list, so lets build it.

AC's can break a game at levels like monarch or lower. Well lower than monarch just starting the game breaks the game for the human.

Custom maps should not be used in discussion, unless it is explicitedly stated tha they are custom maps. Same for mods as they distort the game. Not saying they should not be played, I cannot address plays in a mod or a custom and overlay it upon standard maps. Things will not be normal.

Normal games, Ivory can be any part of the world and you are unlikely to have it. So using a strategy that incorporates AC, is not a good plan. It is a great plan, if you are on a map that you know you start with Ivory.

Unless it is a civ that is next to me and at least DG, I am not concern that someone has AC units. I don't like, if they are next to me, but I can deal with it. If it is Sid I am probably toast, unless I can make them my friend for a long time.

I will say you are going to take big losses, if you plan on attacking muskets with AC. That is not a profitable way to wage war for any length of time. IOW one or two towns, fine. I do not like to attack muskets in town, with knights.

The point about optional techs, is that you can skip some of them all the time and others much of the time. A few, cannot be skipped. The reason you want to skip techs is that you need to get to better techs and ideally to the next age asap.

It is nearly 2am here, so I hope I was some what coherent and clear. My point in responding to your post is not to change your position on wonders. It is to alert readers that what you are saying is subject to many objections.

 

[templar_x]

Not sure why you would say that. I do have a very dim view of people telling other people how to play the game.

in my view, you are actually the only one who utters his disrespect of someone´s elses way to play the game, not vice versa. at least i perceive only your posts like that, and, like Lord Emsworth, bitter to some extent. no idea what would have caused that, but from what you say i suppose you had unfortunate discussions about that topic in the past. in case you had used the same style of posts back then, i would not be surprised if the discussion went the wrong way somehow, though. as i said, to me *your* description of different playing styles does sound disrespectful, while nobody seemed to attack you and your way to play the game in any way.

t_x

 

[Theov]

This topic could become good!
*takes a chair*

 

[Everkane]

I was trying to stay away from this topic and I probably will, but honestly, the guy asked something about building wonders and got the answer: the dependence of wonders is bad and you probably will get better results in your gameplay if you don't go for most of them.

It's about the same if someone asks "why can't I attack with spearmen only?", well you can, but you probably will have a better experience if you put some attack units in the stack.

The people are saying what's non-edited Civ 3 is about. If that's a mistake of the programmers I don't know, probably, but most of the wonders is simply better you don't build it.

You can build them all. You can build a stack of spearmen and invade your neighbours. Nobody is saying you can't, it's just not the best way of doing things. This is why he made the topic anyway, isn't it? To ask for opinions?

Everything else is just a delirious.