shadowdude
cynic in training
I have vanilla civ3 and I am thinking of getting PTW and C3C,but then I thought to myself "other than multiplayer features what makes it worth buying?" Perhaps you guys can answer my question.
Why are PTW or C3C better than vanilla civ3?
- Thread starter shadowdude
- Start date
G
Gainy
Guest
In C3C, there are more Civs, more units, more traits, just more of everything. The game is also alot more balanced, due to changes to traits, wonders, units etc.
The AI is a bit more intelligent, and there's just loads of good new features
As for the actual conquests, I don't like them. But many others do...
Hope that helps, and btw, do not buy PTW. C3C includes virtually everything that PTW does, besides a few maps (and probably some other minor thing).
The AI is a bit more intelligent, and there's just loads of good new features
As for the actual conquests, I don't like them. But many others do...
Hope that helps, and btw, do not buy PTW. C3C includes virtually everything that PTW does, besides a few maps (and probably some other minor thing).
general_kill
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2003
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- 2,870
and the most important part is you can move units in STACKS!!!! u dont have to single handily move a stack of 50 units one at a time
Tomoyo
Fate
The stack command exists in vanilla too.
Tallanas
Gunboat Diplomat
The interface is better, and the game is just more balanced, I think... The new civs and traits are good fun also.
I think of PTW as the first serious patch to vanilla, and I'm pretty happy with it.
It has more civs, more units, more wonders, radar towers, slightly smarter AI.
From what I gather C3C is radically different, so there will be some unlearning of habits necessary.
I'm going to wait until PTW gets boring at Emperor level then just stop playing for awhile. Then I can make a fresh start with C3C. It should take a day or two...
It has more civs, more units, more wonders, radar towers, slightly smarter AI.
From what I gather C3C is radically different, so there will be some unlearning of habits necessary.
I'm going to wait until PTW gets boring at Emperor level then just stop playing for awhile. Then I can make a fresh start with C3C. It should take a day or two...
Sandman2003
Prince
I never brought PTW, because I thought that it was just a few more civs and multiplayer. Having brought C3C, I am thrilled with the decision. The changes to the game have made it better. The interface has been improved in a number of crucial ways as well, making it much slicker. I wouldn't want to go back to vanilla now.
I also thought that I probably would not like the conquests, but I was wrong. They provide a great variety and offer the opportunity for a shorter civ experience.
I also thought that I probably would not like the conquests, but I was wrong. They provide a great variety and offer the opportunity for a shorter civ experience.
general_kill
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2003
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- 2,870
Tomoyo said:
Really? was that in a patch after PTW came out?
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
Some major differences from Vanilla in C3C are:
- 2 new traits and retuning of existing ones.
- More civs and multiplayer option.
- New wonders. 2 of which automatically produce free units every 5 turns (mod makers can make any building produce any unit in fact).
- Armies are a LOT stronger now(movement +1 from slowest unit in army and increased attack/defence). Military Leaders can no longer rush Great Wonders though (but they can still rush small wonders)
- The first to research any tech get a chance of getting a Scientific Leader which CAN rush Great Wonders or boost research for a while.
- Philosophy give free tech to first to research it (mod makers can set any tech can be set to do this).
- Volcanoes and Plagues that errupt from time to time and cause havoc (Plagues are not turned on in regular Epic games though).
- LandMark Terrain that effectively can increase the number of different types of terrain on a player made map.
- For map/mod makers they also added firm Alliances that cannot be easily broken and are active from start between any number of selected civs - up to 4 such firm teams are possible. This also includes the possibility to set permanent war status between any of the 4 possible teams.
- 2 new traits and retuning of existing ones.
- More civs and multiplayer option.
- New wonders. 2 of which automatically produce free units every 5 turns (mod makers can make any building produce any unit in fact).
- Armies are a LOT stronger now(movement +1 from slowest unit in army and increased attack/defence). Military Leaders can no longer rush Great Wonders though (but they can still rush small wonders)
- The first to research any tech get a chance of getting a Scientific Leader which CAN rush Great Wonders or boost research for a while.
- Philosophy give free tech to first to research it (mod makers can set any tech can be set to do this).
- Volcanoes and Plagues that errupt from time to time and cause havoc (Plagues are not turned on in regular Epic games though).
- LandMark Terrain that effectively can increase the number of different types of terrain on a player made map.
- For map/mod makers they also added firm Alliances that cannot be easily broken and are active from start between any number of selected civs - up to 4 such firm teams are possible. This also includes the possibility to set permanent war status between any of the 4 possible teams.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
I recommend C3C only if you:
o Want the Conquests Scenarios (I think they're fun!)
o Are a fairly casual player and like more variety in Civs and units you meet.
o You play multiplayer.
o You want to have the latest/greatest.
If none of the above applies then I suggest using PTW instead. PTW does have a number of improvements over the original Civ3 and there's no downside to it.
Whichever version you use, be sure to download and apply the latest patch for it, that will make a lot of difference vs. the version on the CD.
The final version of PTW is IMO the best balanced version of the game and the one which has the most replay value. As others have mentioned, Conquests has many new features. But, many of those new features are very poorly balanced at the moment. For example armies - they're so overpowering in Conquests that if you build a few of them the world can be yours. They are THE best way to go with your military, which means things aren't balanced - there shouldn't be any THE best way The new agricultural trait has a similar problem, it is way overpowered. And so on with other features. Also, the AI seems less well tuned than in the final PTW patch.
None of that matters much if you just want to play a few games and enjoy the greater than ever variety of features.
o Want the Conquests Scenarios (I think they're fun!)
o Are a fairly casual player and like more variety in Civs and units you meet.
o You play multiplayer.
o You want to have the latest/greatest.
If none of the above applies then I suggest using PTW instead. PTW does have a number of improvements over the original Civ3 and there's no downside to it.
Whichever version you use, be sure to download and apply the latest patch for it, that will make a lot of difference vs. the version on the CD.
The final version of PTW is IMO the best balanced version of the game and the one which has the most replay value. As others have mentioned, Conquests has many new features. But, many of those new features are very poorly balanced at the moment. For example armies - they're so overpowering in Conquests that if you build a few of them the world can be yours. They are THE best way to go with your military, which means things aren't balanced - there shouldn't be any THE best way
The new agricultural trait has a similar problem, it is way overpowered. And so on with other features. Also, the AI seems less well tuned than in the final PTW patch.None of that matters much if you just want to play a few games and enjoy the greater than ever variety of features.
Sandman2003
Prince
SirPleb, would your view of C3C change if they fixed the AI so that it made use of armies as well, and was a little more prepared to attack your armies?
Global Nexus
Terran Confederate
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 1,109
I wouldn't recommend getting Play the World by itself under any circumstances -- Conquests COMES with PTW, so you basically get two-for-one. Also, the navy is slightly improved in C3C over Vanilla and PTW, so you can better enjoy some naval battles. Nothing spectacular, but it's still better than it was. Plus, the numerous civs to choose from -- all with their own unique units, traits, and such -- will increase the replay value of the game. PLUS you can enter in certain "seeds" when you start a random map game, so you can go back and play an exceptionally good map over again.
C3C is far more balanced than Vanilla or even PTW. The traits are better balanced, Armies are now USEFUL for something, there are numerous new abilities like Enslave to toy around with [with Javelin Throwers (Maya's unique unit), Privateers, and Man-o-Wars]. There are two new types of terrain [Marsh and Volcanoes], a Modern Age upgrade for the Warrior line at LAST, the Conquests themselves [which present unique game playing experiences themselves].
Essentially, C3C is Civilization III perfected. It has balanced out the traits [some, like Agricultural, being easy to use and others, like Expansionist or Seafaring, being not-so-easy to use], and the Civs themselves. Air units are more useful now, all Unique Units are useful in their time [even the F-15 is useful...in the Modern Age, after you've won.
], and everything generally is more fun to play. It's good for serious and not-so-serious players, too, so it doesn't matter your playing style.
C3C is far more balanced than Vanilla or even PTW. The traits are better balanced, Armies are now USEFUL for something, there are numerous new abilities like Enslave to toy around with [with Javelin Throwers (Maya's unique unit), Privateers, and Man-o-Wars]. There are two new types of terrain [Marsh and Volcanoes], a Modern Age upgrade for the Warrior line at LAST, the Conquests themselves [which present unique game playing experiences themselves].
Essentially, C3C is Civilization III perfected. It has balanced out the traits [some, like Agricultural, being easy to use and others, like Expansionist or Seafaring, being not-so-easy to use], and the Civs themselves. Air units are more useful now, all Unique Units are useful in their time [even the F-15 is useful...in the Modern Age, after you've won.
], and everything generally is more fun to play. It's good for serious and not-so-serious players, too, so it doesn't matter your playing style.
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
@SirPleb
I didn't particularily wanted the conquest scenarios(I found a few of them fun though), I am no casual player, I rarely play multiplayer anymore after getting Conquest(played quite a bit after PTW came out) - and I totally disagree with you on C3C being anywere near as unbalanced as you seem to think. Armies being close to useless prior to C3C, Military leaders rushing Grt. Wonders made going to war ASAP a no brainer, Ring City Placement bug and more hardly qualifies as being well balanced IMHO. In fact only big step back in C3C is the barbarians acting very stupidly - however I trust next patch will deal with that problem.
But each to their own I suppose
I didn't particularily wanted the conquest scenarios(I found a few of them fun though), I am no casual player, I rarely play multiplayer anymore after getting Conquest(played quite a bit after PTW came out) - and I totally disagree with you on C3C being anywere near as unbalanced as you seem to think. Armies being close to useless prior to C3C, Military leaders rushing Grt. Wonders made going to war ASAP a no brainer, Ring City Placement bug and more hardly qualifies as being well balanced IMHO. In fact only big step back in C3C is the barbarians acting very stupidly - however I trust next patch will deal with that problem.
But each to their own I suppose
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
That's certainly a biggie but on its own that wouldn't swing me over. I think they have to fix a number of things. It doesn't seem critical to me which ones get fixed - there's no single issue where I'd say "until this is fixed the game won't be as good as PTW." (The problems with armies come close thoughSandman2003 said:
) It is a combination of so many darn things being imbalanced. IMO they need to fix enough of these things that the final result feels a lot better. Examples are all over the place. Some more examples are the new barbarians (they've lost what brains they used to have), fatal bombardment (makes bombers pretty near all you need to win a modern war), invisible subs triggering wars no one wants, Philosophy giving a free tech (makes one research path the best way to go almost every time you start a game of C3C), governments imbalanced (Communism now overpowered and the new governments pretty much useless.) There are a lot of things which badly need tuning. PTW 1.27 on the other hand is a fairly well tuned game.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
@CyberChrist: I agree that armies were nearly useless before C3C. But I considered that acceptable, just a minor problem. It isn't imbalancing because you can just ignore them. Armies in C3C on the other hand are so powerful that they make the military approach to the game even more valuable than it was before. On the whole I consider C3C armies to be a more powerful use for Great Leaders than rushing wonders used to be.
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
@SirPleb: Heh heh, I guess we just see things differently. Sure C3C needs yet more tweaking - but not nearly as much tweaking as PTW did.
I don't see how rushing for Philosophy is any different from rushing to Scientific Method - or rushing for any wonder for that matter.
I don't see how rushing for Philosophy is any different from rushing to Scientific Method - or rushing for any wonder for that matter.
Sandman2003
Prince
SirPleb, some of these things you note work both ways. The bombers for example are just as useful for the AI. The lethal bombardment just makes the air war a lot more important, which is a big improvement IMHO. The sub thing is a bug yes, but how big a bug? The AI use excess cash to steal plans of your troop dispositions. This will show them where your hidden units are. They then target the destruction of your subs with their destroyers. I know they do this, because in my recent game I caught my major antagonist trying to steal plans. Anyway, therefore, subs major usefulness is hiding in a destroyer pack and using the ability to pick out the vessel you wish to sink, eg transport, rather than slinking around on their own. So I agree it is a bug, but not a biggie. The goivernment choices were pretty much pre-ordained in PTW as well, I think. Philosophy is not necessarily that easy to get to first, especially if you don't start with the right techs, and if you get there anyway, well good on you for playing well.
I agree overall that there are areas that need further tuning, but there are a lot of previously unbalanced things that now seem more balanced to me (although I am comparing vanilla to C3C), and the greater variety in C3C seems to improve replayability to me anyway.
On another point, do you personally like the conquests?
I agree overall that there are areas that need further tuning, but there are a lot of previously unbalanced things that now seem more balanced to me (although I am comparing vanilla to C3C), and the greater variety in C3C seems to improve replayability to me anyway.
On another point, do you personally like the conquests?
PTW
-Stack command and buttons were added in PTW, maybe Firaxis patched a command to the original. That IS the reason I bought ptw.
Conquests
-Map trading in C3C does not take place till latter ages which helps get an edge for placing cities. Tech progresion has changed relative to C3/ptw.
-You get a few new units, a new trait and some new tribes.
-The palace jump exploit was, I think, eliminated.
-Bombers kill units so you can bomb a city till it is degarrisoned and take it without a fight.
-the Conquest scenarios are VERY good!
-Stack command and buttons were added in PTW, maybe Firaxis patched a command to the original. That IS the reason I bought ptw.
Conquests
-Map trading in C3C does not take place till latter ages which helps get an edge for placing cities. Tech progresion has changed relative to C3/ptw.
-You get a few new units, a new trait and some new tribes.
-The palace jump exploit was, I think, eliminated.
-Bombers kill units so you can bomb a city till it is degarrisoned and take it without a fight.
-the Conquest scenarios are VERY good!
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