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Why does the AI ignore zone of control?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by PendragonWRB, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. PendragonWRB

    PendragonWRB Prince

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    Maybe I am missing something, but it seems to me like only my non-cavalry units are affected by zone of control. Does the AI just cheat or is it bugged?
     
  2. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

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    Horse/armor units have always ignored ZOC.
    Also, remember that ranged/siege units have no ZOC.
     
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  3. Klinn

    Klinn Warlord

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    Except for the new Domrey elephant siege unit that just arrived with the Khmer DLC. It does have ZOC.
    Not that it would affect cavalry, but just adding that for completeness. :)
     
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  4. PendragonWRB

    PendragonWRB Prince

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    I don't have a recent example in mind unfortunately, but in every case that I am remembering I put an archer behind a melee infantry unit expecting the enemy melee infantry unit to NOT be able to hit my archer, yet in every case they just walked right by my melee unit. That's what I mean by ignoring my ZOC. In other words I don't feel I can every trust that I can 'block' for a ranged unit.
     
  5. isau

    isau Deity

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    Units also ignore Zone of Control from across rivers.
     
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  6. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

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    A unit (even if starting in a ZOC) can always move 1 tile (into an adjacent ZOC,for instance) and then attack if it still has sufficient movement left. Could that have been the scenario?
     
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  7. PendragonWRB

    PendragonWRB Prince

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    Neither of these cases were what I am talking about. Say for example a spearman is sitting in a barb camp. I move my slinger within two of the camp so next turn it can move one and strike. I also move my warrior directly in front of the spearman but off to the right so my slinger can step up to it's left to shoot next turn. The spearman should NOT be able to move past my warrior and attack my slinger, but it will anyway, ignoring the ZOC my warrior placed on that hex.
     
  8. SharTeel

    SharTeel Chieftain

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    Actually, you can. This is not civ5 with zoc eating up all movement, you can still attack, just not move away
     
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  9. bbbt

    bbbt Deity

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    Maybe I'm not clear on your description but ZOC doesn't stop them from moving - it ends their movement after they move into it. So he moves one (in your ZOC), loses the rest of the movement, but can still attack.
     
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  10. PendragonWRB

    PendragonWRB Prince

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    But he can only attack the warrior which was making the ZOC, that is the point of it, the spearman must attack the warrior, not the slinger because that would be breaking the ZOC to leave the hex and enter the slingers hex to attack it.
     
  11. BWS

    BWS Big Bradd Wolfe

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    That's not how it works, though. Once you move into ZOC, you can only move again to attack, but you don't need to attack the unit with ZOC specifically.
     
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  12. PendragonWRB

    PendragonWRB Prince

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    That's just not right. What if the spearman wins? He stays where he is? Is that a change from Civ V?

    To me the whole point of ZOC is preventing an enemy from moving or attacking past it. You cannot attack into a forest if you can't move there so why should you be able to attack out of a ZOC?
     
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  13. Aldor

    Aldor King

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    I've fallen into that trap before too. And I agree, it feels wrong how it's working right now.
     
  14. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    Slightly related: I wanted to move a destroyer through a narrow but there was an enemy caravel in the way and the destroyer couldn't get passed it. When I sunk the caravel with a battleship the destroyer could move ahead using it's remaining movement points. Was kindda surprised by this.
     
  15. Takfloyd

    Takfloyd Prince

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    Zone of Control has some weird rules in this game, you just need to learn them. ZoC only prevents offensive combat/religious units from using the "move" option, they can still do other things like attack or spread religion.



    However, units that cannot attack seem to completely end their turn upon entering a ZoC. For example, you cannot move a Guru into a ZoC and then use it to heal.
     
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  16. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    The picture is beautiful! And yes, the overall movement rules and ZOC in particular are a bit counter-intuitive.
     
  17. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

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    Good question. What does happen if the Spearman wins? This seems like a bug.
     
  18. narmox

    narmox Emperor

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    If the spearman wins, he moves to the tile where the slinger was. Just like if the spearman wins against the warrior.

    ZOC in civ6 doesn’t prevent combat, just further unimpeded movement. As others mention, this is different from civ5, just have to get used to it. For example, hide the slinger on the “hey!” tile in the pic above, then next then you can still move the warrior, move the slinger and bombard then attack with warrior.
     
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  19. cvb

    cvb Prince

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    If the Spearman kills the slinger, he may not enter the (now) empty tile (as melee units always do when defeating an enemy), because of the ZoC (without slinger he is not allowed to simply move to this tile 'en passant', even less while fighting against the slinger).

    So the Spearman kills the slinger and remains on the tile in between? This would look like a weird exception: a melee unit performs a ranged attack - i.e. inflicting damage without approaching.

    Forbidding the attack solves the issue without contradiction. But this would strengthen ranged units, as a barbarian archer might leave his camp and kill the slinger.
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    So if at the start of your move you are in a ZOC you can move as per normal rules. This means you can move into another ZOC as already stated above
    Its about understanding the rules and approaching a barb camp correctly.
    In the example mentioned this may seem the right way because the slinger can move 1 and shoot but as stated, even though the barb starts in a ZOC it obeys normal movement rules so enters a ZOC and then cannot move further until it has attacked either the spears or the slingers
    upload_2017-10-30_11-45-19.png

    The way I always approach a camp is as follows
    The warrior will move from a ZOC to another ZOC, before it attacks the slinger moves up to give +2 flanking, the warrior attcks and then the slinger attacks.
    upload_2017-10-30_11-47-55.png
    So while the ZOC may not be to everyones liking a barb camp kill can be done correctly as described
    And after all the second diagram looks correct, the first one looks like your slinger is vulnerable so I quite like this approach, its just getting it in your head

    To me the big change between V and VI is that the barb spearmen would move and sacrifice his camp to do damage rather than sit there and take it dishonourably
     
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