Why is a medieval unit beating the crap out of my guerrilia?

[Longasc]

Guerillas are often still in the Middle Ages, at least in terms of ideology. So the Medieval Infantry and the Guerilla are on even levels.

 

[Dell19]

It comes after cavalry in the game so not entirely medieval... but I agree that it isn't exactly a modern unit either...

 

[juballs2001]

Guerillas are often still in the Middle Ages, at least in terms of ideology. So the Medieval Infantry and the Guerilla are on even levels.

no they arent...u must research replaceable parts to recieve guerillas...that is if i am correct about 8 sciences into the industrial age... The only reason i see that u are losing guerrilas is this. Your (6,6) guerilla is attacking a (4,2) Med. Infantry. If the M.I is fortified it gains a 50% defense bonus. So now it is (6,6) v.s (4,3) if u are crossing a river to attack give the defense another 50% bonus from its original defense so (6,6) vs (4,4) finally if the city u are attacking is on a mountain the defender gains another 50% bonus so the worst possible result is (6,6) vs (4,5) there is still little chance they should destroy u time after time. I have seen an entire army of calvary and guerillas fall to the dutch mercenary (1,4) now thats crazy...

-Juballs

 

[Dell19]

In terms of ideology... Then guerillas go right through the ages and if we go back to the machine guns arguement, guerillas are quite an odd unit really as you expect them to be small groups troops that wouldn't really be moving around in a huge stack so its perhaps more understandable that these units may collapse because of disorganisation rather than being beaten by superior weaponry...

 

[Tomoyo]

Things like this is why we have artillery.

 

[huh?]

Thread hijack...

Fear the ball and chain!

What does my wife have to do with this conversation?

 

[Dell19]

Things like this is why we have artillery.

A shame the AI doesn't use it...

 

[Chaos_BF1942]

Things like this is why we have artillery.

Why use artillery, an ICBM works better



Yeah I hate when that happened, but there isn't really anything you can do, It happened to me once. After that I retearted my men and nuked all of the AI's cities, units and land. Then moved my army in. The world hated me for it but I got that spearmen.

 

[Siddhartha]

I think the combat generator needs to be adjusted. I realize that the game needs to maintain some balance by having early units maintain some defense/offense values as you go through the ages, but I think its ridiculous a that a spearman or even a pikeman can take out a tank. If a spearman is the best unit a civ can come up with vs a civ that has tanks (or cavalry or whatever), then it deserves to be destroyed quickly.
I have also noticed that while the AI seems to be able to produce indestructible spearmen etc, I cannot do the same. I have never been able to produce a rifleman who, with one red bar left, can take out a dozen infantry men, but the AI seems to be able to.

 

[Longasc]

Dell19 and juballs2001, you did not understand me. I was referring to real-life Guerillas fighting for some old-fashioned ideologies and calling that the great revolution.

 

[LLXerxes]

Spearmen are known to beat Mechanized Infantry, anything can happen in this game.

naa... they beat tanks.

Was the guerrilla on the attack, or defence, what terrain, was either unit fortified?

 

[Lonkut]

Guerrila was on a city, garrisoned, and fortified.
Does it matter the number of troops on the same tile before attacking? do they get any bonus?

 

[Dell19]

Dell19 and juballs2001, you did not understand me. I was referring to real-life Guerillas fighting for some old-fashioned ideologies and calling that the great revolution.

I did mention that vaguely in my second post...

 

[Masquerouge]

but I think its ridiculous a that a spearman or even a pikeman can take out a tank. If a spearman is the best unit a civ can come up with vs a civ that has tanks (or cavalry or whatever), then it deserves to be destroyed quickly.
I have also noticed that while the AI seems to be able to produce indestructible spearmen etc, I cannot do the same. I have never been able to produce a rifleman who, with one red bar left, can take out a dozen infantry men, but the AI seems to be able to.

Yo do know you're being completely subjective, don't you ?

Spearmen beat tanks on a 1% basis. Not what we can call a safe bet. So a civ having only spearmen will fall really quickly to tanks. BUt if you have to fight 100 fights, expect to loose one tank.

And more specifically, if your battle plan is wasted because you lost a tank to a spearman, then your battle plan needs to be improved.

And I have been lucky, like the AI, with the RNG. I've had some warriors in opened plains who defeated cavalry. I've had spearmen withstanding full frontal assault of 5 longbowmen.

One day, people will realize memory really is selective.

 

[Lennon]

Are you putting too much emphasis on realism rather than gameplay? Sure in practice modern units would almost always win, there might be exceptions with stolen weapons and asking what a spearmen unit really represents in the modern age, but in a game it wouldn't be much fun to be the first to research a powerful unit and then be able to take over the world. Wouldn't that be even more unrealistic? Also whilst you may be comparing machine guns against other weapons we could also compare organised armies like legions. Shouldn't the Roman UU have double the stats of all other units of the era so that the Romans can show how amazing their armies were?

But it's not about for instance a Musketman eating Medieval Inf for lunch. That should still be a tough fight, even if a Musketman has the slight advantage (defending). But if a Civ is so backwards as to have to resort to Med Inf to counter Guerillas, I don't see why they shouldn't be wiped out from the face of the earth. Then if you complain about game balance you should rather move up a difficulty level...

 

[Dell19]

You are the one that is using guerillas against medieval infantry which would indicate that you could move up a level... My comparison was more to do with the fact that there are plenty of units in the game that can be argued change warfare dramatically and should be able to crush all previous units, this wouldn't make much of a game though if the civ who got a specific type of unit 10-20 turns before everyone was guarenteed at least some very easy wars...

 

[Lennon]

I didn't say I was using Guerillas against Medieval Infantry, but when I do (generally because the AI will have the tech but not the brains to upgrade to Guerilla himself) I wanna win, because anything else is ridiculous. There's a difference if I'm fighting Riflemen with Guerillas, but this whole discussion would call for deepening the flexibility and the simplicity of upgrading units anyway, which I'm definitely for.

 

[ThePrankMonkey]

lol speaking of spearmen beating tanks...in my last game i lost no less than 5 tanks to spearman, not pikemen, not horsemen, spearman.

i've simply accepted it for what it is. i stopped trying to make sense of it and try laugh it off and send in massive SOD to defeat those obviously hard to beat spearman...lol

i've lost modern armor to spearmen and pikemen. i dont know how but i have and so have others. it shouldnt happen but it does. its part of the game.

 

[socralynnek]

I think the combat generator needs to be adjusted. I realize that the game needs to maintain some balance by having early units maintain some defense/offense values as you go through the ages, but I think its ridiculous a that a spearman or even a pikeman can take out a tank. If a spearman is the best unit a civ can come up with vs a civ that has tanks (or cavalry or whatever), then it deserves to be destroyed quickly.
I have also noticed that while the AI seems to be able to produce indestructible spearmen etc, I cannot do the same. I have never been able to produce a rifleman who, with one red bar left, can take out a dozen infantry men, but the AI seems to be able to.

The combat generator is just fine and perfect. If you want newer units to loose less against older, than increase their A/D values, but don't fix the combat generator if it isn't broken at all.

 

[chancellor_dan]

Sometimes its just to unrealistic to take. Galleys defeating submarines....