..IF the human player manage to focus on "right" mechanics - the civ6 is designed to challenge and try confusing the human player with an overload of game mechanics.
Why is AI not improving resources?
- Thread starter Todd Cassity
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Kupe Navigator
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From the way people talk about it, Vox Populi might as well as be an Elixir of immorality that Qin searched so hard for.
I am just sick of players who use Vox Populi mod as a cure all for everthing civ related and flagging Civ team for not creating anything like it in the first place.
Zegangani
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That's not the solution, because even if Builders get infinite charges, the AI would still take dozens of turns to just improve some few tiles. I've seen AI Builders wandering around the Map to just to return later to their original City without doing anything (don't AI now that they have Scouts for exploring?), negleting unimproved resources, going straight into the hands of an enemy...etc.
I think a Better solution for that is giving the AI the chance to improve one tile every 2~3 turns automatically, without using Builders, but Gold costs (or nothing at all). It's not a propper solution, but without altering the AI completely this seems the optimal solution for that IMO.
Lord Lakely
Idea Fountain
or... you could revert to Civ 4/5's system of construction over time, which is an easy system for both players and an AI? If your mechanic is AI-unfriendly you either redesign the AI (which is hard) or the mechanic (which is easy). I'd prefer the former, but I'll take the latter. It is, after all, far more realistic.
No offence, but that's a horrible solution. Giving the AI more ridiculous advantages over the player, that you will never have access to by legal means is utterly demoralizing. I veto it.
A decent solution while maintaining the charges would be adding an overlay that allows you to plan your improvements in advance, like a blueprint of sorts. When you get a builder, you can automate it and it will complete the planned improvements the closest to its current location. The AI could use that to effectively improve their tiles, provided their flavour for building builders is also improved (and maximizing charges when they are recruiting them.)
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
Modders will always out-do devs because modders have more resources and more freedom to do what they want.
Kupe Navigator
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That's exactly my point. It just ain't fair to conpare vox populi mod and current civ 6.
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
Also, Vox Populi/CBP has existed for years now, longer than Civ 6 has.
Pfeffersack
Deity
Not yet. So especially if you have a save or two where this behaviour clearly shows, feel free to open a thread in the bug section.
Peserwin
Chieftain
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Reported in a new thread
Zegangani
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I never played Civ4 or Civ5, so I don't know how their construction systeme is set up. Yep, an AI redesign would be the optimal choice, but it's unlikely that we would see that for Civ 6. On the other hand, a redesign of the mechanic would cost much less resources, but will improve AI infrastructure construction systeme immensely, especially for AI.
Yeah, I know it's a bad solution. But given that the Human Player is constantly in awarenes of his infrastructure, and the AI badly configured to handle that, especially placing Districts for better adjacencies, I barely see AI build most of their tiles before the rennaissance Era. At least they should get their strategic and luxury resources improved (that's what is frustrating me the most).
That's a neat Idea of yours. An Infrastructure Queue for Improvements (where you have to set the tile and improvement for it) would be a quality of live feature. Tbh I wanted to make a Mod that improves every now and then an Improvement in an AI City (just to not let the Human Player be always the better "Builder"), but your Idea has kicked this nonsense from my head by now. And I think it's moddable. It would require a constant interaction between Gameplay and UI Scripts, which sometimes doesn't sync correctly with the current InGame actions, but because this are more of per turn actions, It shouldn't be a big Issue to get this to work propperly. For the Human Player it would be a gift from heaven, but for the AI we would have to pre-set priorities for them, based on their Cities current situation, The Civ itself...etc (a shortage in food => more Farms, Barbarossa => Mines, Quarries and Lumbermills over other Improvements...etc). If you manage to make a good concept for AI's improvement construction behavior/priorites, I would gladly spend some Time to mod this.
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Archon_Wing
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The only thing that tells me is that Civ 5 was so bad after years of development that it wasn't good, and then modders had to make an entirely new game to make it good. And for some reason that makes 5 better. I really don't care which game is better anymore. (the real answer is 4 anyways, even unmodded, but I don't go bringing this up constantly)
I like playing Civ 6, and would want civ 6 to be fixed; we are in the Civ 6 subforum after all, so... we are talking about AI building the proper stuff, not any of the other stuff.
Note: *points to no solicitors sign*
Zegangani
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It's actually the contrary, we do not have such lot resources. I mean yeah, we have some tools to work with in Civ VI but there are no documentations of how things work (which makes the Main Job of modders to find out what items are available for modding, how do they work, and how they can be used. And even now, after more than 4 years of Civ 6 modders are still capped in this trap) and there are too many modding limitations that sometimes you need a whole workaround with many trys and fails for just a simple Idea/Mod, which means spending a lot more Time in a Single Mod that you can hardly spare, especially with demanding Mods.
In other words, without the DLL source code or Firaxis giving us access to more lua objects and API, don't expect a Mod ala Vox Populi for Civ 6.
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Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
There are four resources that matter here:
1. Access to game files. Devs normally have more of it, but for a game like Civ V or IV modders are given such a level of access to the game files that it's close to a tie who has the most resources here. Not so much in civ VI.
2. Knowledge. Devs start with more of it, but the older the game, the more the modding community will have figured out its secrets, and even ways to do things the devs never realized could be done.
3. Time. Devs don't have a day job on top, but have to meet deadlines so have a firm limit to how much time can be invested in the game before it just gets canceled or given to someone else to rush out. Modders are essentially only limited by their continued interest in the mod, and by their natural lifespan, so can invest far more hours in the long run than devs.
4. Money. Devs have a finite amount of money to spend on the project and running out can end the project; everything they do uses up money. Modders don't have money and don't need to spend it either, so have much freedom.
Overall, on the vast majority of those, the modders have the advantage, or will get it once the game is old enough. The only one the devs clearly have the advantage on is access, and that depends on how much of the game core files are released.
In Civ V's case, with how much access exist, modders have essentially have unlimited resources. No game dev is ever foing to have that,
1. Access to game files. Devs normally have more of it, but for a game like Civ V or IV modders are given such a level of access to the game files that it's close to a tie who has the most resources here. Not so much in civ VI.
2. Knowledge. Devs start with more of it, but the older the game, the more the modding community will have figured out its secrets, and even ways to do things the devs never realized could be done.
3. Time. Devs don't have a day job on top, but have to meet deadlines so have a firm limit to how much time can be invested in the game before it just gets canceled or given to someone else to rush out. Modders are essentially only limited by their continued interest in the mod, and by their natural lifespan, so can invest far more hours in the long run than devs.
4. Money. Devs have a finite amount of money to spend on the project and running out can end the project; everything they do uses up money. Modders don't have money and don't need to spend it either, so have much freedom.
Overall, on the vast majority of those, the modders have the advantage, or will get it once the game is old enough. The only one the devs clearly have the advantage on is access, and that depends on how much of the game core files are released.
In Civ V's case, with how much access exist, modders have essentially have unlimited resources. No game dev is ever foing to have that,
Zegangani
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I completely agree. The devs have far more limitations than Modders, and they having more access to the game files doesn't mean that they can do more with them than expected from the company. In this regard, Modders have much more friedom.
From what I can Tell, Modders can bring more out of Civ VI, even without DLL. What keeps a lot of Modders from not diving into modding the Game is the lack of documentation and cummunication from the devs. Just like the fear of constantly getting ones Mods broken from the Game's DLCs/Updates, and therefore getting a pile of work to (re)do for Mods already done, nearly every Game update.
With the example of Gedemons overhaul Mod, we have prouf that the Game can be far better than it is rn. And the Mod didn't even use mechanics from RnF or GS.
With more access to the game files (more lua objects or preferably, the DLL source code itself), modders could lift Civ VI to such a high Level that would make it new shore for every Civ expert (to such a degree that even Vox Populi would look like a small Scenario DLC), and that would immediately make Fans of previous iterations jump into this new Epos.
From what I can Tell, Modders can bring more out of Civ VI, even without DLL. What keeps a lot of Modders from not diving into modding the Game is the lack of documentation and cummunication from the devs. Just like the fear of constantly getting ones Mods broken from the Game's DLCs/Updates, and therefore getting a pile of work to (re)do for Mods already done, nearly every Game update.
With the example of Gedemons overhaul Mod, we have prouf that the Game can be far better than it is rn. And the Mod didn't even use mechanics from RnF or GS.
With more access to the game files (more lua objects or preferably, the DLL source code itself), modders could lift Civ VI to such a high Level that would make it new shore for every Civ expert (to such a degree that even Vox Populi would look like a small Scenario DLC), and that would immediately make Fans of previous iterations jump into this new Epos.
nzcamel
Nahtanoj the Magnificent
From my recent marathon game started before the release of the Vietnam/Kublai Khan DLC. So not a new issue
Spoiler :
Well, no. The main issue isn't that the AI doesn't make improvements (though that can be a separate issue sometimes); it's that they don't improve resources with the correct improvement once it is available.
Lord Lakely
Idea Fountain
lmao WHAT?? I had no idea the AI did that. Well, that's stupid.
Pietato
Platonic Perfection
He is wrong. The main issue is the AI not improving resources, and they do not use the wrong improvement. He is seeing resources undiscovered by the AI, but discovered by him.
Kupe Navigator
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actually don't. bug thread is dead as a doornail. You might as well as shout to Devs in your own bedroom.
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