Why is Mansa Such a Good Techer?

[Framesticker]

So I played a Fractal/Emperor/Random Leader game today and got Mansa. 2 blocking cities at Cyrus's gate allowed me to settle 8 amazing cottage cities in peace, which let to total tech superiority over Cyrus and Frederick and Sury on the nearby continent. I blew everyone away in tech, and after making Cyrus a non-issue with Cannon/Rifle war, I basically destroyed everyone else with Marine/Artillery/Fighter stacks sent throughout the globe, facing mostly Rifles and Infantry at best.

However, I decided to do a double-check and see whether Mansa's Spiritual trait had actually lent that much to victory, and edited the text file to play as Wang instead, which made a huge difference. I finished my moden conquest on 1969 instead of 1895. True, the RNG could've contributed plenty to that - but I think the answer lies somewhere in Mansa.

Does Mansa's unique trait combination allow him to be the undoubted king of cottages? And if so, how come?

 

[King Pluto]

I don't think Spiritual really adds a whole lot to Cottages and Financial. Rather, it gives the flexibility with civics to switch without anarchy, saving turns and allowing maximum optimization of civic manipulation and play.

 

[Casi]

Lizzy is faster imo, for the scientist growing

 

[UncleJJ]

Financial is great with a CE and Spiritual allows that economc and technological advantage to be turned into a military advantage in a painless and non disruptive way. It is a strong pairing. The UU is a good early defender and the Mint is a forge with +10% gold which has to be useful for happiness and a production boost, even in cottage cities if they have some hammers or spare food to be used in whipping. Getting economic infrastructure combined with cottages is a recipe for success in a CE.

 

[stefista]

Mansa is good techer because he is willing to trade with everyone without concern to hampering their progress.

AI Mansa in CIV4 is a great example of the principle demonstrated by Adam Smith's pin factory in the wealth of nations.

The point of the pin factory is that when the pin making process is broken down into steps done by separate laborers who then trade parts to make the wholes, you get many many more PINs than you do by simply having each laborer make entire PINs. This occurs, critically, without any differences in the abilities of the workers! When you assign workers to tasks based on their skills, you do even better (that's David Ricardo's contribution).

Smith summarized this idea in one sentence: Division of labor is limited by the extent of the market.

That means, kinda backwardsly, that the number of steps pin-making is divided into, and thus the number of people involved in pin-making is determined by how many pins can be usefully traded in that locale.

Applied to CIV4, the task is the tech tree, and it is broken down into individual techs. Do it yourself and it takes far longer than if you trade. Most AI's will (unrealistically) decline the gains from trade for themselves unless you offer a highly advantageous trade. Mansa does this significantly less, so he trades more, so he techs faster than everyone else, even though his traits make him only marginally better at teching (mainly FIN) than other leaders.

 

[DaveMcW]

Because Mansa is the biggest tech trade slut.

 

[Derakon]

Stefista: that's great and all, but the OP was asking why a human playing as Mansa had such a stronger tech game than when playing as a different (still Financial) leader.

 

[UncleJJ]

@stefista and DaveMcW.

I think the OP was meaning why is Mansa a good techer when played as a human. The AI Mansa is indeed a trade slut, but a human doesn't have to role play him that way

EDIT: Duh, I read those two posts and didn't read Derakon, who made exactly the same point.

 

[DaveMcW]

Oh.

Financial + Almost Anything* is a good long-term techer.
*except protective and aggressive

 

[ahcos]

long term financial doesn't matter imo, long term all land-securing traits win easily - IMP, maybe EXP and CRE (if you used it to block of more land), even AGG or PRO if you use it to acquire more land by war or even protecting your land from aggressors.. but in short-mid terms financial is easily #1, maybe contested by PHI if you get ALOT of GPs and IND if you get alot of wonders and/or failure gold. and long term, well, financial is always useful, so whatever. more gold = more/better troops = more land...

@topic: there might be better techers in human hands, personally i LOVE spiritual just for being able to switch to a useful civic as soon as it's unlocked. anarchy is painful if you have to switch between civics often and don't have the right GPs to launch a golden age. maybe you should compare between two top-tier leaders instead of top-tier to mid-tier leader (at best, even though wang kong is financial which makes him almost top... but from all the financial leaders, he's the worst.) play as huyan capac, darius or lizzy and compare again x)

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Wang is financial, too.

You had the same start, same opponents, settled in the same places, had the same goody hut luck? The differences, in that case, are:

1) Anarchy for civic/religion changes
2) Mysticism for wang, wheel for mansa
3) Cheap temples for mansa
4) Mint vs. saewon

The only advantage for Wang is cheap castles (which you probably didn't build) and better gunpowder units.

I'd guess that it's a combination of turns saved on the wheel, turns saved on anarchy, and the effects of the mint vs. the saewon - mint is earlier and has an effect on gold, which is more valuable than beakers. Mint is one of the best UB's out there, actually.

 

[stefista]

Whoops, I got too far ahead in thinking and didn't read OP. Nevermind....