Why is Mt. Rushmore enable by Facism?

[Tactilus]

I agree we with Democratic Republic except you forgot the Constitutional part. Constitutional Democratic Republic.

 

[Carver]

You can have democratic and republican processes in the same polity. The US legislative process is representative democracy; we elect people to make laws. The executive branch is republican in that the executive is chosen (in essence) by the fifty states.

 

[MNGhost]

Yeah. I actually agree that Oxford University and Globe Theatre are kind of awkward names for National Wonders that everyone can build.

Why not Great Theatre or Great University? National Monument, or Heroic Sculpture?

They're just abstractions to get the point across. Something people can relate to. You build a "Great University", what do you think? "Yay, I built a big university. Woot." You build "Oxford University" and it drives the point home. You just built a world-class institution of learning to be proud. It puts the image in your head.

Sure you could build just a National Monument (you could probably mod it in without too much difficulty, most likely), but building Mt. Rushmore has a lot more impact and is a lot more fun.

 

[Sorceresss]

[...] building Mt. Rushmore has a lot more impact and is a lot more fun.

You call that "fun" ?!!?

 

[Rhymes]

Shouldn't it be enable by Democracy, since Mt. Rushmore was built in America, as a symbol of greatness.

post that thread here and you'll get your answer

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=18

 

[abbamouse]

Well, fascism did have a tendency to build stuff that looked like Rushmore -- ie giant statues and sculptures of leaders. I always figured that they put Rushmore where they did not because fascism actually enables its construction but because it came along around the same time as fascism (the 1930s). Democracy emerged much earlier and we had things like the Statue of Liberty (courtesy of France) but Rushmore didn't come along for another 100 years. So maybe it's just an attempt to match Rushmore to its historical moment rather than its true "requirements."

 

[MNGhost]

You call that "fun" ?!!?

Yes, I do. Because when I build it I imagine a huge sculpture carved into the side of a mountain with my face on it. Just like the real Mt. Rushmore, but in homage to my glorious empire.

 

[daengle]

Constitutions do not have to be written; the UK's is unwritten and mostly tradition.

-the Wolf

This is very off topic and no one will care but ....

The modern legal basis for the sucession of the throne of England derives from the English Bill of Rights of 1689 in which William of Orange and his descendants were granted the crown of England in exchange for guarantees of certain rights to the nobility.

There is no English constitution, but below is a link to this charter which established the current British monarchy.

http://www.constitution.org/eng/eng_bor.htm

But then of course, there had been kings in England long before 1689.

 

[Schlomoe99]

Well, fascism did have a tendency to build stuff that looked like Rushmore -- ie giant statues and sculptures of leaders. I always figured that they put Rushmore where they did not because fascism actually enables its construction but because it came along around the same time as fascism (the 1930s). Democracy emerged much earlier and we had things like the Statue of Liberty (courtesy of France) but Rushmore didn't come along for another 100 years. So maybe it's just an attempt to match Rushmore to its historical moment rather than its true "requirements."

I agree. We built Mt. Rushmore in the face of Fascism. It did not mean that we had changed our government to be fascist.

 

[Reveilled]

Several hundred years ago, a Democracy was a government by which thngs were decided entirely by the votes of the people.

But (shock! Horror!) languages change over time. And the meaning of the word Democracy has changed with them. Nowadays, what was once definied as "Democracy" is now called "Direct Democracy", and as any dictionary will tell you, a Democracy is "Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives." (emphasis added)
A Republic is simply a government whose head of state is not a monarch. Venice was a republic. Cromwell's Commonwealth was a republic. The Soviet Union was a Republic. Pre-war Iraq was a republic. The United States still is a Republic.
But it would be foolish to use such a criteria as an exclusive measure of government. After all, it doesn't tell you anything about the government itself, only a single piece of information about its leader's title. The United States is a Democratic Republic, meaning that it is both a Democracy and a Republic. The two terms are not exclusive.

 

[PerpetualMotion]

*puts on his grandad hat*

Well back in our day there was no such thing as a constitution, one day some important nob just approached the King and had the following conversation:

Noble: Here's an idea Mr King, instead of having this inconvenient civil wars and popular uprisings every hundred years, why don't we just let the people decide who they want as the leader of this country.

King: But I am the King of England (and surrounding disputed teritories), I am the leader of this country.

Noble: Well yes of course sure.... but what if there was someone else took care of all the boring stuff like law and order, taxes and things and you could concentrate on higher matters.

King: And I would be in charge of this leader?

Noble: Well... kind of

King: ?

Noble: Well technically the people would be in charge of him as they elect him and have the power to vote him out, but you have a kind of... executive veto.

King: Which means?

Noble: If they elect a crap leader you can tell them to try again

King: Sounds complicated

Noble: Not really, it just means the people have the illusion that they are in charge of their own destiny and so they won't want to behead you every generation or so.

King: Hmm I like that. And what are these... higher matter you speak of?

Noble: Well basically you get to go hunting, eat large amounts of luxurious food and kill Frenchmen

King: Sounds good, make it so

Noble: Excellent your majesty... just one more thing, do you think this should all be written down somewhere so the people can see in a 'constitution' that they have these rights.

King: No that would be bad, I might change my mind next week.

Noble: Fair enough

That's one of the funniest things i've ever read. Is that really how it works over there? Makes me less ashamed of our government. We've got a super-nifty tricked out Constitution, unfortunately we stopped using it about 50 years ago. Not sure what happenned there.

 

[Dikaioma]

We've got a super-nifty tricked out Constitution, unfortunately we stopped using it about 50 years ago. Not sure what happenned there.

I thought I was the only person that noticed this...

 

[Nuh Uh]

I would imagine under the pretense of keeping it closer to the modern era, as it makes no sense whatsoever. Nationalism = Fascism? Hardly. It's simply convoluted and lame to make Fascism the premise for its construction as much as it is trying to justify it. One thing has nothing to do with the other; it dishonors the few honorable men our history holds, and it sends a completely inappropriate message to those who don't know any better. Sid Meier, while good at improving and captalizing upon other's ideas, really impresses me as somewhat of a dingbat, IMO. I bet my cat has more integrity and creative potential. Maybe he's a neo-thing-a-ma-jig, like a neo-Nazi. Whatever the reason, its a bad one.

 

[Nuh Uh]

(Behold, glorious capitalism and democracy in the make, as it carries the root of death for our planet's health - as well for our nation's philosophical legacy built upon moral integrity, national honor, spiritual justice, and social well-being.)

 

[Carewolf]

On the subject of constitution.
We had the opposite in Denmark. The first constitution had nothing to do with democracy, but assigned absolute power to the king, what we called enligthned monarchy. It was a really just tool to rid the nobility of its privileges and power; until then the nobility had appointed the king like in England.

 

[Meffy]

Erm, there IS this little ditty known as the Star-Spangled Banner, ya know... it was only set to music later...

Specifically, a week later.

In fact, in a way it was set to music before the words were written. Francis Scott Key wrote the words during the siege of Fort McHenry in Baltimore, Maryland, during the War of 1812. It was his brother who recognized that the words could be sung to the tune of a drinking song popular in England, "To Anacreon in Heaven."

Key wrote the words on September 13, 1814. On September 20, 1814, the words were published in two newspapers along with a note that the tune was "To Anacreon in Heaven."

Regarding war epics for the USA, may I suggest "The Red Badge of Courage"... or "The Longest Day" if movies can be admitted as epics? (TLD certainly qualifies on the length criterion!) Or to go a bit further, if television series can be epics, how about "Victory at Sea," perhaps the finest TV documentary ever -- with a great soundtrack too.

To my way of thinking "Star-Spangled Banner" doesn't qualify as an epic. It's a song, an anthem, but hardly of epic proportion even if we include all four verses instead of the usual one.

 

[Piemaster]

That's one of the funniest things i've ever read. Is that really how it works over there?

Lol, not any more, although when we first started experimenting with democracy in the 1700s, that was approximately how it worked.

Basically we didn't have much of a template on how a democratic country was supposed to work, so we just made it up as we went along.

 

[warpus]

and it sends a completely inappropriate message to those who don't know any better.

those who don't know what fascism truly is, you mean? they are free to look up the various things they encounter in the game on their own time and learn about them.

civilization is not meant to be an educational tool.. it doesn't have an agenda either. if we were all worried about sending out "inappropriate messages" to the daft, then we wouldn't have any games at all.

 

[Meffy]

Barely Relevant Trivia Time! We all know (*assumes a pontifical air*) fascism takes its name from the Roman "fasces," an axe with rods bound around its haft to add strength -- the translation into practical weaponry of the motto "united we stand, divided we fall," as the fasces' durability depends upon the bundle, not any individual stick in it.

Enough background. Here's the pitch:

Q: In what famous present-day legislative meeting place can you see prominently displayed two large symbolic fasces?

 

[Meatlord]

Perhaps those who are fed up with the Iraq situation should go bask in the magnificience of Mt. Rushmore and all they're frustrations with this war will melt away.

I still don't see the connection between war weariness and Mt. Rushmore (which I have visited).