Why is Republic better than Monarchy?

[tR1cKy]

Switch to Republic. Stay in Republic. I rarely find a need for Monarchy. I would have to be religious and in a chronic state of war to even bother with it.

While you can survive the Ancient Era with it, Monarchy's tech rate is just too slow to continue with in the Middle Ages.

IMHO, it's wrong to be so absolute. As an example, what if you go for an early domination or conquest? In this case you don't care about the middle age tech race, and often you play the zero research gambit, a situation in which the government is irrelevant since the research is done in the max turn limit anyway.

 

[budweiser]

You can often get to monarchy before you can get to republic by at least a few dozen turns. You simply need to acquire less techs. In that case it may be worth it to get the food and production bonus sooner rather that later. In this case, if you go to war and clear your continent, you can stay in monarchy all the way to democracy and then switch. This is another case where democracy is useful; skipping republic completely.

BTW its not entirely true that a monarchy cannot keep up in tech. There are many other factors that apply, including the players skill in trading. I would say they can keep up at least until the industrial age, then it gets harder.

 

[Tomoyo]

A monarchy can definately keep up in tech. It's just that it hard for them to get ahead in tech.

One tool that is usually forgotten is the pointy-stick research...

 

[tR1cKy]

One tool that is usually forgotten is the pointy-stick research...

Er... i've heard people talking about the pointy-stick but i'm not sure what it actually means. It is the research made at 10.0.0 with only a specialist somewhere?

 

[budweiser]

It means make war, then get techs for peace. Pointy stick = spear and arrows.

 

[Tomoyo]

And it works best with sticks, not guns... since you need to whack a lot of AI to get a modern/industrial tech.

 

[tR1cKy]

Ok, i was quite off-mark then. Thanx you all!

 

[Renata]

IMHO, it's wrong to be so absolute. As an example, what if you go for an early domination or conquest? In this case you don't care about the middle age tech race, and often you play the zero research gambit, a situation in which the government is irrelevant since the research is done in the max turn limit anyway.

Republic's cash-flow is so sweet when going for domination -- all those culture/settler rushes. Less important in a conquest victory, perhaps, unless you're trying to maximize score.

Renata

 

[gunkulator]

IMHO, it's wrong to be so absolute. As an example, what if you go for an early domination or conquest? In this case you don't care about the middle age tech race, and often you play the zero research gambit, a situation in which the government is irrelevant since the research is done in the max turn limit anyway.

Then you probably stay in Despotism anyway so the point is moot.

 

[RoboPig]

hate it, not as good economically as democracy and the unit payrolls are killing me

 

[tR1cKy]

Then you probably stay in Despotism anyway so the point is moot.

Er... tile penalty

 

[Tomoyo]

hate it, not as good economically as democracy and the unit payrolls are killing me

What do mean "not as good economically as democracy"? They have the same bonus! If you're talking about corruption, I'll counter with the extra revolution...

 

[Alexfrog]

What do mean "not as good economically as democracy"? They have the same bonus! If you're talking about corruption, I'll counter with the extra revolution...

Democracy also gives a production bonus, which is pretty awesome. Corruption is also less. You lose a few turns switching, but you'll have two entire ages to reap the benefits. Only way democracy isnt the best is in war, and then, unless you are going to be at war absolutely nonstop, Republic's war weariness isnt very bad at all.

I tend to go Despotism->Republic->Democracy

If religious, I might switch more later if going to war, but generally I'll just try to have short wars where I take some stuff and then get peace and more stuff in the peace deal, then repeat a bit later.

I tend to try and run at a minimum of 70% science, often up to 100%, from the Middle Ages on. Usually, my GPT from the AIs is more than all my expenses. This is in C3C, Deity difficulty.

I go for the paths the AIs dont go for as much, and swap and get GPT. For example, in Middle Ages, I ignore the bottom half, and go for Monotheism, Theology, Education, Democracy, etc...
I'll be swapping these for the more miliaristic techs in the bottom half, and then I'll tend to do the techs like Magnetism at the end.
In Modern Age, I get steam power for railroads, and go up the replacable parts track while they are all messing around with Nationalism and Communism and stuff. I go for Industrialization, Corporation, etc, all the way to Tanks. I try to get Darwin, giving 2 techs (generally Refining + Steel, I find). I try to hit Tanks 3-4 techs ahead, and start a modern war with them, in which I take some cities quick, and then go into peace as soon as they will talk to me (for more stuff), then repeat a bit later. I'm in democracy the whole time, so I dont want to let the war weariness build up too high.

 

[Tomoyo]

Democracy does not give a production bonus. It gives a worker efficiency boost. By the time you get Democracy, that won't help.

I use the same research path you use, except without the Democracy.

 

[tR1cKy]

The "production bonus" he experiences is probably due to the slight reduction of corruption and waste...

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Democracy also gives a production bonus, which is pretty awesome. Corruption is also less. You lose a few turns switching, but you'll have two entire ages to reap the benefits.

Ok, Demo has a slightly less corruption than Republic, and faster Workers. The later can be useful, but in most cases you don't have many native Workers at that time anyway.

Just ask yourself: Do you really beleive you're saving as much due to corruption level 1 and 150% Workers, as you loose within the usual 9 turns of Anarchy, plus 4 turns to research an otherwise useless, optional tech (or you have to buy it from the AI, overpriced)?
9 turns of Anarchy, this means the leading AIs will pull ahead at least 2 more techs. This means you pay for a useless resource. This means 1000s of lost shields that late in the game...
You may be forced to go Commie, but here you get a pay-off.

Democracy? As useful as Feudalism. About the only time I deliberately used it was in 20k attempts. A REL Civ is given, and you head for Shakes anyway, and you don't fight that much (so not enough Slaves).
Occasionally, I use Monarchy in a war-heavy game, and here it can happen that I switch to Demo later (usually after capturing the GLib, no other way to keep up in techs otherwise). But I NEVER ever switched from Rep to Demo with a non-REL Civ.

Alexfrog: Btw, do you mean C3C or earlier versions? Before C3C, Demo scores better compared to Republic. But in C3C, forget it.

 

[Rohili]

Ok, Demo has a slightly less corruption than Republic, and faster Workers. The later can be useful, but in most cases you don't have many native Workers at that time anyway.

Just ask yourself: Do you really beleive you're saving as much due to corruption level 1 and 150% Workers, as you loose within the usual 9 turns of Anarchy, plus 4 turns to research an otherwise useless, optional tech (or you have to buy it from the AI, overpriced)?
9 turns of Anarchy, this means the leading AIs will pull ahead at least 2 more techs. This means you pay for a useless resource. This means 1000s of lost shields that late in the game...
You may be forced to go Commie, but here you get a pay-off.

Democracy? As useful as Feudalism. About the only time I deliberately used it was in 20k attempts. A REL Civ is given, and you head for Shakes anyway, and you don't fight that much (so not enough Slaves).
Occasionally, I use Monarchy in a war-heavy game, and here it can happen that I switch to Demo later (usually after capturing the GLib, no other way to keep up in techs otherwise). But I NEVER ever switched from Rep to Demo with a non-REL Civ.

Alexfrog: Btw, do you mean C3C or earlier versions? Before C3C, Demo scores better compared to Republic. But in C3C, forget it.

Erm, you forgot to mention the doubled unit support costs for Republic. That, compounded with the lesser corruption, gives a substantial gpt boost. (Doubled unit support is what hurts Republic most IMO, not the corruption)

"Usual 9 turns of anarchy"? I have never experienced such long anarchy periods, even with non-religious civs I have anarchy for 4-6 turns at most.

 

[tR1cKy]

Erm, you forgot to mention the doubled unit support costs for Republic. That, compounded with the lesser corruption, gives a substantial gpt boost. (Doubled unit support is what hurts Republic most IMO, not the corruption)

psst... unit support.

 

[Tomoyo]

Erm, you forgot to mention the doubled unit support costs for Republic. That, compounded with the lesser corruption, gives a substantial gpt boost. (Doubled unit support is what hurts Republic most IMO, not the corruption)

"Usual 9 turns of anarchy"? I have never experienced such long anarchy periods, even with non-religious civs I have anarchy for 4-6 turns at most.

You forgot that Republic has unit support. If you're peaceful enough to use Democracy, you don't need a huge army. You can stay below the unit support limit. (And usually still wage war effectively)

EDIT: X-post

 

[Turner]

Republic may have double unit support, but keep in mind for every town you get one free unit, every city 3 free units, and every metro 4. While this probably won't offset the double unit support, it does go a long way to offsetting it.

As for the anarchy, the least I think I've had that late in the game has been five turns. It's not unusual to for me to see seven or eight turn anarchies. Which is a big reason why I don't switch once in Republic. Unless I'm a religious civ, or I'm so far ahead that I can handle the AI catching up by two techs.