Why does the spearman unit become available with the Hunting tech if you can't build that unit until you discover a source of copper or iron? My only guess is that you could trade for a resource from another civ -- but can you trade for a resource that you don't have the tech for yet?
Why is Spearman unvieled w/ Hunting?
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MrCynical
Deity
No, you have to have the tech to trade for a resource. There are quite a few other units that also require resources from a tech you don't necessarily have yet, mainly to make it harder to beeline for a specific advanced unit.
Not that it really matters in a functional sense, but I just don't why they didn't make Spearmen available with Bronze Working then -- if there's no way to build them until you get bronze, and there's no way to get bronze until you have bronze working, then it's impossible to get spearmen until you discover bronze working, whether you trade for that bronze or mine it yourself.
Any expanation of spearmen are on the tech tree before they could possible be used?
Any expanation of spearmen are on the tech tree before they could possible be used?
Gogf
Indescribable
They don't want you to be able to build spearmen without hunting.
The Great Apple
Big Cheese
Exactly. You can get Bronze Working without hunting.Gogf said:
The thinking could be the hunting spear, or the type of wooden spear ancient man used before working metals. This would allow a spearman unit of a sort, although nothing like the spearmen normally associated with warfare.
So you could say that historically it's correct, the first 'spearmen' were hunters.
So you could say that historically it's correct, the first 'spearmen' were hunters.
Woodgar
Chieftain
As others have said, you need two techs (Hunting and Bronze Working) to build Spearmen neither of which is a pre-requisite for the other.
For myself, it "feels" that Spearmen should really be on the Bronze Working tech rather than the Hunting tech, but it doesn't make any difference as far as game play is concerned.
For myself, it "feels" that Spearmen should really be on the Bronze Working tech rather than the Hunting tech, but it doesn't make any difference as far as game play is concerned.
I think the logic is "that while your civilization may have discovered bronze and be building all sorts of snazzy things out of it you won't necssarily know that you can make it into a weapon unless you have also discovered that avenue of technology as well.
Imagine discovering the use of a spear for hunting ... bone or stone tips ... but it's ONLY for hunting. Then you discover Bronze and put 2 and 2 together: "You know, if we combine this metal stuff with our spears, we could actually make better tips and potentially use them as weapons!"
It's a logical addition of two different technologies.
Imagine discovering the use of a spear for hunting ... bone or stone tips ... but it's ONLY for hunting. Then you discover Bronze and put 2 and 2 together: "You know, if we combine this metal stuff with our spears, we could actually make better tips and potentially use them as weapons!"
It's a logical addition of two different technologies.
Okay, thanks everyone -- that makes perfect sense. I can see how many other units in the game are dictated by the same function.
It's similiar to how you discovered macemen with civil service, but cannot build them unless you have machinery -- the example only differs in that w/ maceman, the unit is cross-referenced with a previous tech -- with bronze working it's sort of the other way around.
Anyway, I just wasn't thinking -- I've certainly dodged ahead to brozne working many times w/o getting hunting and often thinking "gosh, I wish I had hunting so I could get spearmen" -- so really, I feel dumb for this relationship never occuring to me before!
It's similiar to how you discovered macemen with civil service, but cannot build them unless you have machinery -- the example only differs in that w/ maceman, the unit is cross-referenced with a previous tech -- with bronze working it's sort of the other way around.
Anyway, I just wasn't thinking -- I've certainly dodged ahead to brozne working many times w/o getting hunting and often thinking "gosh, I wish I had hunting so I could get spearmen" -- so really, I feel dumb for this relationship never occuring to me before!
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
The bronze would seem more relevant to the armour than to the weaponry of spearmen. An obsidian or flint spearpoint isn't much worse for killing people than a bronze or iron one.
The Last Conformist said:
I think the point is that the stronger the tip, the more capable of piercing armor it is. Additionally, one could argue that Bronze allows for greater crafting of point types ... perhaps longer, more suited for armor piercing and so on.
Well, I'm not one to get into a heavy 'debate' when at the end of the day it's somewhat of an abstract game, but I would contest that leather armor is often considerably under rated.
I've actually worn leather armor that was easily 1/8th - 1/4 inch think (over lapping plates), and historically it was often hardened to a point that we - as modern day people - can hardly comprehend.
http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Elf/Legolas/Armor/legsPald_judy.jpg
This is leather, believe it or not:
The thing is, leather armor back then wasn't like a leather pair of pants, it was extremely rigid, thick and typically overlapped to provide considerably protection.
I've actually worn leather armor that was easily 1/8th - 1/4 inch think (over lapping plates), and historically it was often hardened to a point that we - as modern day people - can hardly comprehend.
http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Elf/Legolas/Armor/legsPald_judy.jpg
This is leather, believe it or not:
The thing is, leather armor back then wasn't like a leather pair of pants, it was extremely rigid, thick and typically overlapped to provide considerably protection.
Kolyana said:
You're mixing eras. Yes, with technological developments, you can make some pretty impressive leather armour. But if your civilization has just managed to learn to hunt animals, and hasn't figured out Bronze yet, you aren't going to have that level of sophistication.
Bh
Agreed, but if they know their hunting and then discover Bronze, one could argue that they're now in a slightly more advanced era and are actually wearing good leather and even Bronze.
Of course, none of this has much bearing on CIV IV - which, let's face it, is somewhat abstract, but I think it's a reasonable assumption to say that they could conceive of an improved spear - or utilize the metal for such.
Actually, thinking about it ... "Spearman" really refers to Spear tip *AND* armor, does it not?
Of course, none of this has much bearing on CIV IV - which, let's face it, is somewhat abstract, but I think it's a reasonable assumption to say that they could conceive of an improved spear - or utilize the metal for such.
Actually, thinking about it ... "Spearman" really refers to Spear tip *AND* armor, does it not?
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