Why Kongo is still the best

[tedhebert]

So... I'm back from My cruise in Alaska... As promised, I went to my last game to check on my amenities... @Linklite and @Leyrann

It's not a completely typical game for me, as I've just subscribed to Civitas: City-States Expanded and to Sukritact's Oson(Akan) civ, but I can go get a game from before that if you feel it over-impacted amenities... I don't think it did all that much...

I had a 12 city empire, so not very big. Managed to get 16 luxuries, 3 CS that impacted amenities a little, and had 3 Water Parks (I usually don't build any until I don't know what to build anymore ;-) )... I didn't even need to put an Amenity civics cars in... I' ll search in my previous games to see how I did with bigger empires (16-18)

Edit: also only had 3 wonders with no impacts on amenities

 

[tedhebert]

Here's an older one without those Mods... It's an extreme case ;-)

Playing Rome, Deity, huge map, Pangea: 18 cities, got a whopping 22 luxuries (of which only 9 were from my cities), PLUS cinnamon, cloves (city state, +6) and cosmetics (great person, +4)... Even managed to get Poundmaker to trade me his jeans ;-)

I DID build two EC in that game... that's very rare... I did have 2 civic cards slotted in: Republican Legacy (+1 to every city with a disctrict, +17) and Liberalism (+1 to all with 2 districts;+15)



I will say this though: Maybe I overstated how easy it is... Going through my saves, I realized that when I play coastal/sea games, I really build a lot of Water Parks in the late game... And on land games like pangea, it's NOT automatic that I'll get to +20/+20...

but still, I think this shows that it's very possible if you look out for the right CSes and GP, and keep good enough standings with most other civs that they'll trade with you.

 

[Linklite]

Perhaps the Water Parks is the misunderstanding. To my mind, they are Entertainment Districts, just built on water. I don't differentiate them beyond liking WPs more due to sea being less useful to build on. That would also make sense in my experience since it's around the time I unlock WPs that I start building things for amenities, often WPs if I can.

 

[Linklite]

Oh, and I hope you enjoyed Alaska, I've never been that far north in America.

 

[tedhebert]

Oh, and I hope you enjoyed Alaska, I've never been that far north in America.

totally Awesome, thx We got real lucky with the weather... it was supposed to be cloudy and rainy for most of our 12 day cruise, and in the end we only got 1 day of THAT, and 11 days of sun So we got to see clearly all the landscape, mountain ranges, glaciers... Really breathtaking !

 

[Leyrann]

So... I'm back from My cruise in Alaska... As promised, I went to my last game to check on my amenities... @Linklite and @Leyrann

It's not a completely typical game for me, as I've just subscribed to Civitas: City-States Expanded and to Sukritact's Oson(Akan) civ, but I can go get a game from before that if you feel it over-impacted amenities... I don't think it did all that much...

I had a 12 city empire, so not very big. Managed to get 16 luxuries, 3 CS that impacted amenities a little, and had 3 Water Parks (I usually don't build any until I don't know what to build anymore ;-) )... I didn't even need to put an Amenity civics cars in... I' ll search in my previous games to see how I did with bigger empires (16-18)

Edit: also only had 3 wonders with no impacts on amenities

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Getting all 16 luxuries isn't exactly an average game, and neither is 3 city-states that boost amenities. Two of which don't exist in the base game, I'd like to point out.

And yeah, 3 fully developed Water Parks probably covers almost all your cities, which is an additional 4 amenities in every city plus 3 or so local amenities in the cities you build them (that's a total of 57 amenities!).

I'd be more interested in what your amenities are at the moment where you enter in the Industrial Era in the civic tree, as that's in my experience the point in the game where they're most scarce, with cities and the empire already growing big, but no regional amenity buildings unlocked yet.

 

[tedhebert]

Getting all 16 luxuries isn't exactly an average game, and neither is 3 city-states that boost amenities. Two of which don't exist in the base game, I'd like to point out.

And yeah, 3 fully developed Water Parks probably covers almost all your cities, which is an additional 4 amenities in every city plus 3 or so local amenities in the cities you build them (that's a total of 57 amenities!).

I'd be more interested in what your amenities are at the moment where you enter in the Industrial Era in the civic tree, as that's in my experience the point in the game where they're most scarce, with cities and the empire already growing big, but no regional amenity buildings unlocked yet.

yeah I only keep my last save from one turn before the win… but from memory, i’m usually at even or +10+10 at that point in game… not at+20… It’s more at mid modern that I get back to +20… and I usually take my games to turns 250/300… I’m not much of a power player

 

[blackbutterfly]

@tedhebert Speaking of Alaska, one little known aspect of Kongo is that Mvemba can settle tundra (not just jungle).

You can build those Mbanzas on forest too, granting food, while preserving the natural beauty, allowing for future national parks.
But I have to say that although Kongo used to be my favorite, there are much better new civs from NFP like Vietnam which are even better at preservation than the Kongo.

Also thanks to recent buffs to Khmer, it too overshadows Kongo. Kongo sadly got hit with the nerf stick too many times

 

[rgp151]

Kongo sadly got hit with the nerf stick too many times

Yeah, I think ultimately that's true, I just still really like the free Apostles because they are such a unique feature with so much utility in how they can be used in terms of exploration, converting barbarians, getting money and of course getting relics. It makes for a unique style of play that adds depth you don't find in other civs.

 

[blackbutterfly]

@rgp151 One more thing: Kongo is particularly bad with NFP modes.

With two of my favourite: Zombies and Apocalypse, Kongo is particularly poor.

In Apocalypse, forest and jungle tiles can become hyper yielding. That is they regenerate after forest fires yielding more than they did before. It makes no sense to place Mbanzas on those tiles.

Zombies kill missionaries. So you get religion much later if at all. Also bad for Kongo. (You probably have to conquer a city with religion to get it. But you will spend a good 25+ turns to get Zombies under control).