Why Let Another Civ Establish an Embassy?

[steveg700]

So, another civ is trying to establish an embassy. Obviously, this will provide a positive diplomatic bonus (and all those forum-dwellers who seem to only read threat titles and not the actual posts will point that out even though I just did), but does this outweigh the negatives?

The embassy grants them a visibility boost, which to my understanding means their spies will be better at conducting espionage and it will definitely mean losing a +3 bonus in theological combat. I can get what's in it for them. It's basically an attack vector.

And the diplo bonus doesn't seem to be necessary. I can still get friendship declarations without it, and chains of friendship declarations lead to further bonuses, and you get an alliance all else seems to fall to the wayside.

 

[kaspergm]

To stop them from pestering you with the question every third turn ...

 

[Bitterman]

They give you 25 gold, which is a 1/4 the cost of a worker in the early game if I'm not mistaken.

But yeah, if you want to play optimally it doesn't make a whole lot of sense I guess. Maybe if they are very far from you.

 

[Tech Osen]

They give you 25 gold, which is a 1/4 the cost of a worker in the early game if I'm not mistaken.

But yeah, if you want to play optimally it doesn't make a whole lot of sense I guess. Maybe if they are very far from you.

Embassy is 50 gold. Trade delegation is 25.

 

[Bitterman]

Oh yes, my bad. I usually call it embassy always.

Yeah it doesn't get you anything useful I guess.

 

[Karmah]

Positive diplo modifier. One that can turn the tide of your relationship enough to start getting friend then allied. If you like that kind of thing. I do like to control my diplomacy.

 

[Archon_Wing]

It's free gold.

Then you just murder them afterwards.

For less violent games it allows the chance of making friends in a few turns which makes the threat of attack much less likely. The disadvantage in theological combat is irrelevant until much later. You can just take defender of the faith to deal with that anyways.

 

[Rosty K]

I am happiest making peace between nations (c)


Unless I have a serious reason to not want to reveal my location (embassy also shows them your capital!)... Though by the time the civic is available you kind of expect them to know where you are anyway.

 

[Victoria]

There are hidden modifiers here, they did show them in the logs but have removed them since the last patch.
I did do some initial small testing but was hoping they would leave them around.
These modifiers pushed up and down a civs ability to make positive decisions toward you.
So trading 1 great work for another great work pushed the value up
Making a promise pushed the value up
Breaking a promise noticeable dropped the value.
Wish I had done more testing now.

Regardless, accepting an envoy is a potive friendly move toward a civ and refusing is negative.
The delegation is also there to counteract initial feelings toward you being negative. I imagine embassies are there to counteract negative agendas. It’s an older dip mechanic when times were simpler. Now it may help push a civ to the level where it may vote for you in Congress.

 

[Tech Osen]

Regardless, accepting an envoy is a potive friendly move toward a civ and refusing is negative.

It's annoying how the AI often won't accept a delegation if you forget (or don't have the cash) to send it the very turn you meet them. Can often mean the difference between lasting peace or inevitable war.

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

Agreed. Often you only have one turn before they instantly dislike you and bar your chances of sending a delegation. I think barring being at war, delegations should always be accepted.

 

[Victoria]

If a civ is friendly to you it will accept your delegation
Upon meeting you or when you meet their agenda you can get a delegation/embassy
I think there should be an option to kill your envoys (lose you money)

Anyway, below is some modifiers in an XML (DiplomaticActions.xml) You can see there is no possibility of getting an embassy if denounced or at war. It is theoretically possible to get a resident embassy with an unfriendly but highly unlikely. For neutral there is quite some possibility and I have done it quite a few times and it seems like accepting their deals and promises helps.

<Row StateType="DIPLO_STATE_ALLIED" DiplomaticActionType="DIPLOACTION_RESIDENT_EMBASSY" Worth="75" Cost="-10"/>
<Row StateType="DIPLO_STATE_DECLARED_FRIEND" DiplomaticActionType="DIPLOACTION_RESIDENT_EMBASSY" Worth="75" Cost="-10"/>
<Row StateType="DIPLO_STATE_FRIENDLY" DiplomaticActionType="DIPLOACTION_RESIDENT_EMBASSY" Worth="50" Cost="10"/>
<Row StateType="DIPLO_STATE_NEUTRAL" DiplomaticActionType="DIPLOACTION_RESIDENT_EMBASSY" Worth="25" Cost="15"/>
<Row StateType="DIPLO_STATE_UNFRIENDLY" DiplomaticActionType="DIPLOACTION_RESIDENT_EMBASSY" Worth="0" Cost="100"/>

How does worth and cost work? well the worth base value of 75 is high so it is worth them doing a lot while the cost of doing it is -10 as in it is better to do than not.
Quite likely they are RND but I see no proof of this.

 

[Starwars]

It's annoying how the AI often won't accept a delegation if you forget (or don't have the cash) to send it the very turn you meet them. Can often mean the difference between lasting peace or inevitable war.

The most annoying thing is when a friendship ends, so you send a friendship request to reenable it. But nope, the AI doesn't want it, that's fine... guess he's planning something.
Then when ending that turn, they send a friendship request of their own.

 

[Victoria]

The most annoying thing is when a friendship ends, so you send a friendship request to reenable it. But nope, the AI doesn't want it, that's fine... guess he's planning something.
Then when ending that turn, they send a friendship request of their own.

This is likely a dip state cache not updated or no global cache existing. Because you move first your status is updated but theirs is not. A little bit of extra coding would smooth things in this area.

 

[Tech Osen]

The most annoying thing is when a friendship ends, so you send a friendship request to reenable it. But nope, the AI doesn't want it, that's fine... guess he's planning something.
Then when ending that turn, they send a friendship request of their own.

The other day I had that happen with an ally where most of my traders went to. He wanted friendship the next turn but when I wanted to renew the alliance he had apparently used that alliance type with someone else and I already had 4 other alliances running...

 

[Victoria]

I wanted to renew the alliance he had apparently used that alliance type with someone else

That’s called turn based games and 4/5 ain’t bad mr greedy

 

[kaspergm]

That’s called turn based games and 4/5 ain’t bad mr greedy

While I kind of agree, it annoys me to no end that there is no option to renew an alliance before it actually ends. Many times have I experienced having, say, a research alliance going with a specific AI for several rounds, and then at some point when it ends discover he'll have randomly signed a research alliance with one of the other AIs on the very turn our alliance runs out.