Why Scouts Should Be a Priority Build

Onii-chan

King
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
637
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Well it's not that scouts aren't good, it's just that there are so many other things you want to build in the early game as well. I normally wouldn't build more than 2 (maybe 3 on a huge map)
 

megabearsfan

Prince
Joined
Jan 17, 2006
Messages
543
Location
Las Vegas, NV
4. They are super useful for herding other countries' units so they don't get in your way. Most importantly, you can stop a pesky foreign settler from encroaching. (Without declaring war). It takes some maneuvering, and you have to put the scouts a few deep, but it can work. BTW, foreign settlers can move THROUGH your units, so plan accordingly.

As an aside, if you place your units on the near side of rough terrain, then the opposing settlers won't be able to pass. Sure, they can move through your units, but they can't end their turn there. So since they can't pay the extra cost to enter the rough terrain, they can't progress past you, even with a line of units 1-deep. See example: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=795336290

I end up only needing to build one or two scouts, and then I end up getting one or two more as a reward from villages.
 

Alchemy101

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
26
missionaries are the best scouts in the game
Just move them carefully (i.e. hex at a time). With the extra movement they are good but it you accidently move next to a barb you're lost. In a more "civilized" game, I sent out unescorted missionaries and apostles to "convert the civilized world" on to learn that barbs were harassing the more developed nations. I think I lost 3 when using log range plot movement.​

I also agree: slinger > scout for early builds. It's not until I become more "established" that I might want a scout for more "distant" exploration.
 

Mr. Shadows

Nomad of the time streams
Joined
Jul 6, 2015
Messages
650
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Incheon, R.O.K.
So far I've been building two on continents. I'd build more on pangea. Fog busting is paramount but picking up huts is great too. Maybe the biggest thing is that if they get stranded far from home I don't miss them the way I would a warrior or slinger- which may as well be an archer given the cheap upgrade.
 

Nefelia

Prince
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
458
One of the balance mods I use tacked a 1 gold/turn maintenance on slingers and warriors. It also changed the combat strength of the scout to 12, made it so it crosses rivers without extra movement costs, and reduced the production cost of the scout. I've been using quite a few scouts with that mod. :D
 

paz_paz

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
18
I rush buy tons of scouts later in the game to fog bust. And I try not to research rifling. (Founding cities is best for fogbusting though, but tedious. Or using 1 charge workers. But rush buying scouts is fastest.) Early game scouts are rather useless, cause they won't be around to kill 3 barbs asap which can be very helpful if you are planning to build an encampment.
 

xamlop

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
35
Nothing can beat scouts to immediatly get tribal villages, meet city states, discover a new continent, natural wonders, and get the best sens of your surroundings so that you can optimally plan your expends, all of wich are very important early game and can't be delayed (boosts and inspirations and stuff...), so I have trouble believing anything else than scout first can be optimal in any setting. In a multiplayer game or on deity you probably want only 1 but he's important.
 

KmDubya

King
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
632
Location
Nong Bua Lam Pha, Thailand
A slinger gets you much more than a scout does.
  • A slinger can explore as fast as a scout can in rough terrain
  • A slinger is needed for the archery eureka which is easily accomplished by finding a barbarian encampment nearby with your starting warrior and attacking and healing until the barb spearmen is barely alive. The initial built slinger goes there and kills and the warrior clears the camp for another eureka.
  • The AI will declare soon after meeting you since:
    • They start out unfriendly
    • They have two cities compared to your one
    • They have three to four times your army size
    • There is no penalty for surprise war in classical
  • You need the slingers to be upgraded to archers to hold off the initial attack. You'll want at least three archers so best to build them as slingers and upgrade.
If I get a scout free from a village that's great but its better to build a slinger. After I hold off the initial assault I can either transition into offense or stop the war then and there. I'll then build horsemen to do my scouting, they don't have to run away from barbarians and can't get ganked if they end up cresting a hill and finding a barbarian war party that is in melee range of them.
 

xamlop

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
35
Nothing is more valuable early game than being the first to meet a city state and the AI will never kill you with his 4 warriors...
 

KmDubya

King
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Feb 2, 2008
Messages
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Location
Nong Bua Lam Pha, Thailand
Nothing is more valuable early game than being the first to meet a city state and the AI will never kill you with his 4 warriors...

Sumeria and their six war carts and two warriors in my current game had my two cities into the red before I was able to kill his troops off with my three slinger>archers and warrior. All that saved me was the AI attacking both cities at the same time rather than doing one then the other.

Sumeria was 20+ hexes away.

My starting warrior discovered the closest city state first, others were no where close by and half were probably conquered in the first thirty turns anyway ....

If you make a scout first maybe you find something first but you are weaker. If you make slingers first you might still find something first but will be much stronger and safer. For me I'm making the slinger.
 

eris23

Warlord
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
122
Usually I go scout, settler, builder, military units.

Scouts are great to snatch other civilizations 3rd (sometimes even the second) settler and because that first envoy is awesome.

@King Jason
Those early boni are truly worth. Getting those 2 culture is saving yourself a monument, getting those 2 production for units is a mined desert tile being worked, getting two more science almost triples your science output. Also, during ancient era, you get a round of minors asking for simple stuff, like trigger eurekas and inspirations, building spearmen, discovering natural wonder, etc.
And who really has the hammers to found a religion when you're being denounced left and right and fighting against the Triple Alliance because everyone hates you for spawning close to them?
 

teks

Prince
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
330
Location
Florida
I don't get the slingers > scouts. Once the scouts get their first upgrade they are moving twice as fast as slingers, and that speed keeps them alive. They also reap discovery rewards faster as getting all those bonuses depends entirely on speed.

And the final killer, how is that slinger getting back exactly? Oh yeah you can upgrade them to archer to stop an AI rush. But it'll be some 10-15 the turns before they get back and that's if barbarians don't kill them first.

The scout is worth the discovery bonuses, he gets bonuses better then slingers, so slingers are just crappy scouts.
 

Victoria

Regina
Supporter
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
11,883
I believe like most answers, its in the middle somewhere. I do like to find 3 CS and extra landmass and goody huts and natural wonders and I do in fact like talking to people which I do realizes many here do not.

Above emperor forget scouts... u r ded & tilted m8

Below, I do try but it all depends on strategy. Currently doing a french central rush build to powerhouse those wonders and only a tiny bit of my entire mind is not foggy.
 

Kizo

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Messages
97
And the final killer, how is that slinger getting back exactly? Oh yeah you can upgrade them to archer to stop an AI rush. But it'll be some 10-15 the turns before they get back and that's if barbarians don't kill them first.

The scout is worth the discovery bonuses, he gets bonuses better then slingers, so slingers are just crappy scouts.
Don't send your slingers too far out? Just because people are comparing whether to build scouts or slingers early doesn't mean they have the same roles. Keep slingers at a short-to-medium distance from your capital, use them to maintain line of sight to prevent camp spawns, get the boost for Archery, then clear the area with your army. Yes, you might miss out on a couple tribal villages this way. You also won't die.
 

Kelmort83

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
Messages
46
I must be doing something wrong.

Any cities with less than 10 hammer will chain produce Scout / builder.

I use those scouts on hill around my civilization, also for adjency bonus when defending.

Whenever I find a good spot (+6 defense / with good vision range) I fortified him and forget about it.

Vision is a huge thing in everything in life as in gaming :D
 

miaasma

King
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
626
i always build at least one first thing but i'll usually end up buying the other. first envoy bonuses are pretty amazing
 

johnny_rudeboy

Warlord
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
288
I usually get one as my first build. Meeting CS first and get that early boost is huge. And then there is the ancient villages that is always nice to get.
And when ever I tried another strategy and dont use a scout I dont know my surroundings as well and then dont settle my new cities on the ideal location. Might miss out on a lux or a strategic resource that is out of range. If the cloud is gone that dont happen.
 

se7en

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 17, 2003
Messages
96
This is really difficulty dependent. On low difficulty levels building scout builder scout is probably ideal. That would be suicide on Immortal.
 

Mark Twain

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
12
I usually dont go with scouts i try to take it slow and go for builder > slinger > settler > slinger/archer then going for the barbs!
 
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