why should we be friends?

[vexing]

is there any real benefit to making a declaration of friendship with another civ?
the only positive i've seen is other civs who are already friends become friendly to you.

for negatives when other civs dislike your friend they end up disliking you, and friends always ask for hand outs.

plenty of civs remain "friendly" without the declaration of friendship so what's the point?

 

[Rathelon]

In my current game I've gone out of my way not to declare friendship with others. With one exception, the Iroquois, who were the early powerhouse (and my neighbor), so I became his friend. With everyone else I refuse and it doesnt impact my standings. I've been friendly with all civs but two the whole game. Eventually, they'll all find reasons to hate you anyhow.

 

[nokmirt]

I love when they ask you to declare war against someone else. You tell them no, but then the next turn you ask them to declare war against their enemy (you've changed your mind), and they tell you no. You'd think they would be happy for your change of heart. What I would like to know is what lunatic wrote the programming for this AI diplomacy.

 

[biohazard72]

I love when they ask you to declare war against someone else. You tell them no, but then the next turn you ask them to declare war against their enemy (you've changed your mind), and they tell you no. You'd think they would be happy for your change of heart. What I would like to know is what lunatic wrote the programming for this AI diplomacy.

Not to mention getting warmonger hate, leading to denouncements and war declarations, from the civs who ASKED YOU TO GO TO WAR WITH A PARTICULAR CIV.

 

[chgrogers]

I look at it this way they asked you to go to war and you made them look bad by instead of being the distraction the main show. Instead of the English and American war its the French and American War. You upstaged them with your warmongering

 

[DaveGold]

At the moment, it appears that the AI can ask you for gifts/tribute and if you refuse a friend then he denounces you and all nations dislike you. On the other hand, if you ask your friend for a gift you just get refused and he hates you again.

Is this just double standards against the human players or am I missing something?

 

[Dralix]

I love when they ask you to declare war against someone else. You tell them no, but then the next turn you ask them to declare war against their enemy (you've changed your mind), and they tell you no. You'd think they would be happy for your change of heart. What I would like to know is what lunatic wrote the programming for this AI diplomacy.

That AI is probably asking the other AIs the same about you ...

"What lunatic wrote the brain for this human? I asked him to declare war and he said no, then the very next turn he asks me to declare war against the same enemy? "

 

[nokmirt]

That AI is probably asking the other AIs the same about you ...

"What lunatic wrote the brain for this human? I asked him to declare war and he said no, then the very next turn he asks me to declare war against the same enemy? "

If the AI was programmed properly it probably would have still needed helped one turn later. The whole thing that is stupid about it, is the fact that the AI said he has been through this with me before and the answer is still no. Then why did he ask me to declare war, just the last turn? Now I wonder what lunatic wrote your brain? Or are the AI's shortcomings finally starting to finally seep in (are you beginning to understand?)? I thought communicating with the AI was (let's put this in a nice way) a task, but when a human can't understand the simplicity of my arguement here...well I feel badly for the world we live in!

 

[biohazard72]

I'm going for a no-friend strategy next. The diplomatic repercussions of a friend denouncing you are huge, and the AI is so insane that you know it will happen. Especially if you warmonger.

 

[nokmirt]

I'm going for a no-friend strategy next. The diplomatic repercussions of a friend denouncing you are huge, and the AI is so insane that you know it will happen. Especially if you warmonger.

Me too, AI friends have gotten me nowhere, except some happiness now and then. AI insanity, some humans just don't get it! One guy told me I was a lunatic because the AI acts so stupidly! I wonder if half the posters on some of these threads have even played this game.

 

[Dralix]

Now I wonder what lunatic wrote your brain? Or are the AI's shortcomings finally starting to finally seep in (are you beginning to understand?)? I thought communicating with the AI was (let's put this in a nice way) a task, but when a human can't understand the simplicity of my arguement here...well I feel badly for the world we live in!

It was a joke ...

 

[Alphons Rodulfo]

is there any real benefit to making a declaration of friendship with another civ?

I think you get better deals with civs that are friendly towards you. And the declaration of friendship probably helps in maintaining the 'friendly' status.

I think it helps to sign declarations of friendship with civs that you don't plan to attack for the whole duration of the game.

 

[timtofly]

I'm going for a no-friend strategy next. The diplomatic repercussions of a friend denouncing you are huge, and the AI is so insane that you know it will happen. Especially if you warmonger.

If you are a warmonger, you are an outright liar if you try to make friends.

 

[Roto-Router]

Yah, but warmonger or not, AIs with whom you have a friendship declaration will make totally unreasonable requests: like asking for half of your gold per turn. If you don't honor these requests you take a big diplomatic hit with them. This wouldn't be so bad if you could ever ask the same kind of thing of the AI and get an affirmative answer, but in my experience they always say no. I don't mind giving an AI friend a free luxury if I have spares, but 50 or 80 GPT is beyond the pale.

 

[vexing]

I think you get better deals with civs that are friendly towards you. And the declaration of friendship probably helps in maintaining the 'friendly' status.

I think it helps to sign declarations of friendship with civs that you don't plan to attack for the whole duration of the game.

yeah, you get better deals from "friendly" civs, but you don't get better deals from a declared friend vs a friendly civ, and it seems like civs only want the declaration when they're already friendly. declining has no negative impact, they just say maybe later. and the declared friend is going to get pissed at you eventually so i still don't see any benefit to the declaration.

 

[southpw11]

I'm going for a no-friend strategy next. The diplomatic repercussions of a friend denouncing you are huge, and the AI is so insane that you know it will happen. Especially if you warmonger.

Yea i experienced this too. I went to war in early game with a friend over fountain of youth, and then was denounced. I'm in the year 1905 now, and everyone still holds it against me.

The only benefit I can see to declaring friendship is staving off being war decced for a while longer.

 

[nokmirt]

It was a joke ...

Yes I know just a barrel of laughs!

 

[Lowfreq73]

Let's face it, the whole diplomacy "system" is butt. It just wasn't thought through. I have a feeling that CiV will become just like my beloved Harpoon series....I'll need to wait for enthusiasts/modders to make it "right."

 

[Dralix]

Yes I know just a barrel of laughs!

Meh. If we removed every unfunny joke from internet forums, there would be a handful left.

I thought it was amusing that you changed your mind after one turn, and then commented about the AI doing the same thing. So I made a silly post about an AI on a similar internet forum doing the same thing. I stopped short of finishing it with "God/Evolution, you suxorx!!!" to avoid starting any religious debate.

My post was meant as a parody of yours. It was not my intent to call you a lunatic as you claimed. If you really think that, then I apologize.


On the topic of seemingly schizophrenic AIs, there will always be some amount of WTH? factor in an AI that relies on die rolls, which I'm sure this one does. In order to avoid an AI being totally predictable, there has to be some amount of randomness to it. That means that sometimes odd things will happen, like one turn the AI wants war, the next it doesn't. Does this happen too much? Hard to say based on what we see. People don't post about the times that things make sense.

I agree that the diplomacy isn't perfect, but I think it's far better since the patch. There still seems to be some wonkiness, like how the AI seems to regard their units as borders, and doesn't differentiate between you settling near them and them settling near you.

As far as DoF goes, I want to do some more experimenting, but I think that to make lasting friendships, you have to actively nurture the friendship, not just declare it and expect it will last without work on your part.

 

[nokmirt]

Meh. If we removed every unfunny joke from internet forums, there would be a handful left.

I thought it was amusing that you changed your mind after one turn, and then commented about the AI doing the same thing. So I made a silly post about an AI on a similar internet forum doing the same thing. I stopped short of finishing it with "God/Evolution, you suxorx!!!" to avoid starting any religious debate.

My post was meant as a parody of yours. It was not my intent to call you a lunatic as you claimed. If you really think that, then I apologize.

I am sorry I took it the wrong way. The reason I changed my mind in one turn, is because the Persia was the civ I was asked to declare war on. I happened to look at my map closer that next turn, and Persia built a city near my borders on the tip of India. I control the rest of that peninsula so it kind of aggravated me (why put a city so deep in my territory, away from support from it's own empire?). I wanted to burn that city to the ground. So I decided to ask Japan if they still wanted my help against Persia. Their leader refused and said the answer was still no, as if I had bugged him so much about the subject. Perhaps I am a lunatic, for trying to get along with the AI. It has no idea what a change of heart is does it?

Let's face it, the whole diplomacy "system" is butt. It just wasn't thought through. I have a feeling that CiV will become just like my beloved Harpoon series....I'll need to wait for enthusiasts/modders to make it "right."

Harpoon I used to play it in the Navy. Do they have that for the PC? I have not played in years, and at the time it was a board game. We used to simulate the Iowa BB vs. the Russian Kirov cruiser. Then one time we rebuilt the Italian battleship Vittorio Veneto and gave it tomahawk missiles, bow thrusters, and a CIWS phalanx system. We'd modify these ships from WWII and simulate wargames. Sorry for getting off topic, but those were some good times.