Why some Civs have 2 unique Units?

[Ticio]

Why some civs have 2 unique units and other just 1?

I always though it may be like that for balance purposes.

For example, Germany, japan or Gran Colombia having just 1 unit but having great civ bonuses but the theory falls down as soon you realize that England has 2 Unique Unit (red coats being specially powerful) but also very strong civ bonuses.

I would argue that is the same for USA, Vikings and Hungary.


So maybe it has nothing to do with balance purposes; then why?

 

[Pietato]

Some units are linked to leaders, while others are linked to the civ itself. It is also a matter of relative balance between civs, not extreme equality.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Why some civs have 2 unique units and other just 1?

I always though it may be like that for balance purposes.

For example, Germany, japan or Gran Colombia having just 1 unit but having great civ bonuses but the theory falls down as soon you realize that England has 2 Unique Unit (red coats being specially powerful) but also very strong civ bonuses.

I would argue that is the same for USA, Vikings and Hungary.


So maybe it has nothing to do with balance purposes; then why?

GC actually also has two unique units.

Generally, the longer the game has been developed, the more uniques have been handed out to civs. Prior to GS, unique units were mostly limited to civs which likely planned second leaders (America, France, England, plus Norway). But by GS many civs were getting two uniques, and that wasn't just limited to units. Not only did Hungary and the Ottomans get two unique units, but the Ottomans also got a unique governer on top of the usual uniques and Sweden, the Inca, and the Maori got second unique improvements.

It's just feature creep is all. I wouldn't worry about it too much except in cases like GC where the uniques tend to compound into a broken civ design.

 

[Ticio]

I'm pretty okay with that, I was just wondering because it was extrange to me and maybe it had something to do with something in particular.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Originally when picking leaders I like to think that when they went with Teddy Roosevelt they obviously wanted him to have his Rough Riders. To be fair it would be strange if that was America's only unique unit so they decided to give them two.
Of course didn't want America as the only one with two units so they gave a couple more civs two units that could theoretically work such as England, Norway, Macedon etc.
That's what I at least think happened.

And yes the Comandante General for Gran Colombia is technically considered a UU considering you get era score for gaining the first one.

 

[Sostratus]

And yes the Comandante General for Gran Colombia is technically considered a UU considering you get era score for gaining the first one.

The CG is actually attached to Simon’s ability. The Llanero is the Colombian UU.

Since almost all civs have only 1 leader, it seems like semantics, but it does matter (see England only having redcoats under Victoria.) when they made 6 they wanted a more flexible system for Civ and leader additions than 5. They may well have added some of these UUs as a part of that - under the hood they are attached to the leader’s trait and not the Civ.

That said, we still don’t have a truly unlimited system where leaders and civs are independent. Each Civ defines what leaders it has; Eleanor is two separate leaders in the code. So you can’t really add a “universal leader” that all civs could use in addition to their existing ones, nor could you have a “any Civ any leader” mode. (Although adding Sid Meier as a leader like in Civ4 would be funny.)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The CG is actually attached to Simon’s ability. The Llanero is the Colombian UU.

Yes but it still means that the civ does get 2 UUs when you play as them.

It is different for Bull Moose Teddy's America or Eleanor's England as they only get one UU from the civ and not the leader.

 

[Deggial]

Why?

Shortest possible answer: Variety.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

The CG is actually attached to Simon’s ability. The Llanero is the Colombian UU.

Since almost all civs have only 1 leader, it seems like semantics, but it does matter (see England only having redcoats under Victoria.) when they made 6 they wanted a more flexible system for Civ and leader additions than 5. They may well have added some of these UUs as a part of that - under the hood they are attached to the leader’s trait and not the Civ.

That said, we still don’t have a truly unlimited system where leaders and civs are independent. Each Civ defines what leaders it has; Eleanor is two separate leaders in the code. So you can’t really add a “universal leader” that all civs could use in addition to their existing ones, nor could you have a “any Civ any leader” mode. (Although adding Sid Meier as a leader like in Civ4 would be funny.)

Yes, this bothered me from the beginning. I don't understand why they wouldn't have coded the game to make leaders actually modular if that was a core feature of VI. (Somewhat related to that is my frustration that the menu sorts civs by leader and not civ name).

And yes, the extra uniques are all attached to a leader, even the infrastructures: Victoria's redcoats, Teddy's rough riders, Trajan's columns, Harald's viking longship (which I think may hint at a second Norwegian leader?), Matthias' Black Army, Pachacuti's Qaphaq Nan, Kristina's Bibliotheque, Simon's Comandantes Generales. Suleiman actually gets two with Ibrahim and the janissaries.

The only exceptions to this are UIs which can be built by UUs: the Roman Fort and the Maori's Pa, but that's only because the second UI is tied to the civ's UU, and otherwise the leader has no additional uniques.

I personally would have preferred if most civs/leaders got this same "bonus unique" on top of the default uniques, just to give them a clearer niche and represent their culture more. Examples:

* Germany - Teutonic Knight
* India - Mughal fort
* Aztec - Chinampa
* Khmer - Baray
* Maya - Chultun/Saacbe

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

And yes, the extra uniques are all attached to a leader, even the infrastructures: Victoria's redcoats, Teddy's rough riders, Trajan's columns, Harald's viking longship (which I think may hint at a second Norwegian leader?), Matthias' Black Army, Pachacuti's Qaphaq Nan, Kristina's Bibliotheque, Simon's Comandantes Generales. Suleiman actually gets two with Ibrahim and the janissaries.

The only exceptions to this are UIs which can be built by UUs: the Roman Fort and the Maori's Pa, but that's only because the second UI is tied to the civ's UU, and otherwise the leader has no additional uniques.

Rome doesn't technically have any extra unique infrastructure though. Roman monument's are the same as regular monuments, just you get them automatically, and the forts built by legions are the same as regular forts, just come two eras earlier whereas the Maori's Pa functions differently and the Qapaq Nan looks different.

I also don't think that Norway will get another leader but it only made sense to give the longship to Harald.

You also forgot Alexander and his own leader Hetairoi UU.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Rome doesn't technically have any extra unique infrastructure though. Roman monument's are the same as regular monuments, just you get them automatically, and the forts built by legions are the same as regular forts, just come two eras earlier whereas the Maori's Pa functions differently and the Qapaq Nan looks different.

Fair, but together the aesthetic change of the monument and the mechanical change of the fort to me add up to an additional unique.

I also don't think that Norway will get another leader but it only made sense to give the longship to Harald.

Well second leader, which also includes alternate personas. So I could also have just been talking about Magnificence Harald.

You also forgot Alexander and his own leader Hetairoi UU.

I actually thought the Hetaroi was the civ UU and completely forgot about the Hypaspist. I really dislike Macedon's one-dimensional design.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Fair, but together the aesthetic change of the monument and the mechanical change of the fort to me add up to an additional unique.

All monuments got an aesthetic change with R&F according to their culture, not counting the fact that you also have the choice of getting a unique one if you choose to follow the Elder Gods now.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

All monuments got an aesthetic change with R&F according to their culture, not counting the fact that you also have the choice of getting a unique one if you choose to follow the Elder Gods now.

Yeah but none of those cultural monuments are civ-specific like Trajan's. I think he is the only civ with a unique monument design.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yeah but none of those cultural monuments are civ-specific like Trajan's. I think he is the only civ with a unique monument design.

I guess I thought that was the default Mediterranean style monument just specifically based off of Trajan's column. I've never played Rome after the update so I never knew that or looked that closely.

Well second leader, which also includes alternate personas. So I could also have just been talking about Magnificence Harald.

Now that you mentioned it I know kind of want a Varangian Harald.