Why wouldn't I go for Universal Suffrage/Free Speech etc?

[romelus]

i've never used universal suffrage. i usually emphasize production tile improvements, and keep science high, so i don't need the production boost badly, nor do i have much money to hurry things. hereditary rule is essential on higher difficulties. i usually just go hereditary rule and then representation or police state for the rest of the game

i use vassalage every time, and sometimes nationhood when i'm sneak attacked or don't have enough luxury resources (barracks giving +2 happy people is good). i sometimes use free speech, but not when i don't have a lot of towns (not enough grass tiles)

slavery is always useful. sometimes i go from slavery to emancipation. emancipation is a powerful thing. once i was very far from democracy when someone adopted emancipation. over time the unhappiness almost shut down my research, and i almost couldn't discover democracy and get emancipation myself i've also used this emancipation dirty trick on AIs, and they lagged so badly behind in tech they never caught up.

merchantilism is very good especially with representation and statue of liberty! free market is fine, but state property is the ultimate civic since i like to expand. beats environmentalism in almost all cases

i love organized religion. for most of the game i'm building improvements in cities. it's like a civic that gives you +25% on overall production, hell of a lot better than universal suffrage! theocracy is good when at war. i don't use free religion that much. 10% research is nice, but i use representation+merchantilism to compensate. if i have a popular religion, i like to keep it so i have some AIs on good terms until i kill them or ally with them

 

[Magnumaniac]

Emancipation stinks! There's my nice totally dominant huge civ, churning out GPs due to a perfectly sustainable Caste System. Everyone is happy, everyone is comfortable and healthy, there is no slavery. Then... some backwater civ on the other side of the planet finally manages to discover Democracy a thousand or so years after I did and promptly changes to Emancipation. All of a sudden half of my empire downs tools and becomes instantly unhappy - talk about unbalanced!!!

Why did Firaxis implement the civic choices in the game and then completely nerf them with Emancipation and the UN?

 

[snipafist]

the high-end techs work well together if you're set on being a peaceful civ. One or two of them can combine very well with older civics though. In the end game, a police state/vassalage/emancipation (because you have to and the faster cottages are nice)/state property/theocracy state with the pentagon can just roll over peaceful civs (and even smaller warmongers) nearby. On higher difficulty settings, the happiness bonus from hereditary rule and the health bonus from environmentalism can both be game-breaking in the late game.

 

[Jack Naples]

Generally I'd go along with Aussie Lurker. Representation and the free civics (Free Speech, Emancipation, State Property and Pacifism) are unbalanced in that the player can exploit them to the AI's disadvantage. First because you can get Rep in the 1st era if you build the Pyramids, and second because free civics are already good without their zero upkeep giving you more flexibility in your choice of other civics. Free Speech is surely a no-brainer vs Bureaucracy - who wants to pay medium upkeep for a poxy P and C bonus when you can get *double* culture and a gold bonus for nothing?

I've modded the civics in my game, but I'm not completely happy with them.

 

[troytheface]

well i was in a game once and i readied myself for war with police state and state property and theocracy and nationalism and when i was done with the war - and after a bit of time , i switched to the free speeh ect line ...and my points began to fall. Course i drafted afor i invaded. (Frederick - large Continent, Prince)

 

[RX2000]

Yea as has been said above, Environmentalism is definitely NOT something I would "aspire" too. The +3 health just doesnt do a thing that late in the game. Heck, by that time you should already have recycling centers, or be close to getting them anyways. I would just rather stick with free market when in peace and state property when in war (depending on size of your civ too.)

 

[Wodan]

Personally I'd be thrilled if Firaxis changed the UN so that you could vote in ANY civic....

Wodan

 

[Conqueror '91]

Wodan:

Go to this link:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=143682

Its a mod that allows any civic to be introduced as a UN resolution.

 

[seasmath]

Generally I'd go along with Aussie Lurker. Representation and the free civics (Free Speech, Emancipation, State Property and Pacifism) are unbalanced in that the player can exploit them to the AI's disadvantage. First because you can get Rep in the 1st era if you build the Pyramids, and second because free civics are already good without their zero upkeep giving you more flexibility in your choice of other civics. Free Speech is surely a no-brainer vs Bureaucracy - who wants to pay medium upkeep for a poxy P and C bonus when you can get *double* culture and a gold bonus for nothing?

I've modded the civics in my game, but I'm not completely happy with them.

It's not even a commerce bonus! It's an almost useless gold bonus! (Boo.)
The italisized word should be replaced with "commerce."
I will clarify the difference between gold and commerce if someone asks. I'm assuming everyone knows the difference.

 

[Sorceresss]

Personally I'd be thrilled if Firaxis changed the UN so that you could vote in ANY civic.

Personally, I would be thrilled if Firaxis eliminated the UN : that bloated, corrupt bureaucracy.

 

[Duuk]

Am I the only one that uses slavery early and keeps it late?

I love it. Also makes it easy to maintain happiness. In our MP club, the other players call it "Happiness Through Mass Murder". Reducing population to control sickness and unhappiness while speeding up buildings. What could be better?

 

[Sorceresss]

Am I the only one that uses slavery early and keeps it late? I love it. Also makes it easy to maintain happiness. In our MP club, the other players call it "Happiness Through Mass Murder". Reducing population to control sickness and unhappiness while speeding up buildings. What could be better?

Must be a psycho-sadistic asylum MP club.

 

[Duuk]

Must be a psycho-sadistic asylum MP club.

It's really quite useful. I focus heavily on building my city's early growth to get them to 5-6 POP for the production capacity... but then it speeds quickly to 8 or 9 before I have aqueducts/etc. So now I have overcrowded, unhealthy cities... and the ability to solve that issue.

 

[danedwardsuk]

I love the fact that players are 'forced' into emancipation. Isn't that how countries developed IRL.

 

[alco75]

Am I right in thinking the unhappiness penalty for not being in Emancipation accumulates over time? (i.e. starts out with, say, 1 unhappy face and adds more unhappy faces as turns pass)

 

[Bast]

Personally I'd be thrilled if Firaxis changed the UN so that you could vote in ANY civic....

Wodan

Me too! That would be fun.

 

[buck beach]

Never used Env.
Almost never Free Religion.
Rarely use Emancipation.
Universal Suffrage vs Representation, depends on the situation. It's not like U.S. is a must.
Free Speach is good if you need culture, but... Burocracy and Vassalage sometimes are more needed.

The Universal Suffrage sure comes in handy for rushing great must have projects like the Three Rivers Gorge Dam or the Space Elevator (that is if you got the money).

 

[Grogs]

Am I right in thinking the unhappiness penalty for not being in Emancipation accumulates over time? (i.e. starts out with, say, 1 unhappy face and adds more unhappy faces as turns pass)

Yeah, it seems that way. Combine it with some escalating WW and you've got a mess on your hands.

It's not even a commerce bonus! It's an almost useless gold bonus! (Boo.) The italisized word should be replaced with "commerce."
I will clarify the difference between gold and commerce if someone asks. I'm assuming everyone knows the difference.

Not sure what gives you that idea. It *is* commerce that gets a +50% modifier. That means you get the bonus whether you're running 100% science, culture, or gold. I understand where the confusion comes from. I think the little mod that changes the gold or commerce symbol to something different is insanely useful.

I'm a big fan of some of the early civics. If you've got a city with lots of extra food, slavery is quite powerful in the early game. It's also good for warmongers who want to rush cultural improvements/courthouses in captured cities. Caste system is insanely useful for warmongers and peaceniks alike (GP production/expanding culture in captured cities.) I also like Beuracracy a lot. That 50% bonus is actually *multiplied* by the other bonuses. For example, if you have 50 commerce, at 100% science it will give you 50*1.5=75 beakers per turn. With a library/university, it's 75*1.5 = 112 bpt. I don't know of any other bonus of the game that stack like that (multiplies rather than adds.) Unless I've got a *lot* of towns, I can usually research faster in Beuracracy.

 

[eldar]

Hmm. Indeed, hmm.

On the Govt side, I tend to slide fro Hereditary Rule->Rep->US. Police State if I really want to gear up for war; I've only used it once. With Pyramids, I always skip HR, then go to US when I have plenty of Towns for the +1 Gold-rushing big projects late on is of course the other advantage.

I almost never use Free Speech. Maybe I ought to in research-oriented games. Vassalage / Nationalism, though, are very powerful. (Having said that, I totally forgot about Nationalism in my last game when I was sneak-attacked... I'd have been drafting Mech Inf, too, ideal for sorting out those pesky Gunships!!) I guess that means I tend to stick with Bureaucracy. Not much of a boost, but it's a boost nonetheless.

Slavery - always adopt as soon as I get BW. If you get sneak-attacked and haven't adopted it then wish you could whip up a quick Archer... be prepared! Caste System, I never use. Early food is for growth, later cities with enough food will get the right improvements to allow the specialists I want. I tend to hit Emancipation, and stick with it.

Likewise, I tend to grab Free Market as soon as I can, and stick with it. I guess SP is fine with a huge, sprawling, close-to-domination empire, but I tend to be well short of that, a well-developed empire of 20-30% landmass/pop where the extra trade route is more valuable.

Religion - either Org Rel or Theo, depending on my current goals.

This is all for "standard" games; where I have specific goals, esp. culture wins, things will be very different (Free Speech for starters).

 

[BlackMage]

Free Religion can be very useful if you get beat to the early religions and everyone is mad at you because you are a "heathen"