[R&F] Will fast science victories get faster in R&F?

[acluewithout]

...I’m guessing, yes?

I can’t see the nerfs to city states and trade routes (you need buildings for cs bonuses and TRs) will slow things down much: buildings can be chopped in, and TRs aren’t that important. Some card changes could hurt, but no doubt clever things can be done with dark ages cards. Games won’t last long enough for loyalty to hurt much, and colleseum will still be strong so you can keep trading away amenities.

On the other hand, commercial alliances will surely help amassing gold; and surely clever things can be done with Govenors.

Will good players build the government plaza? Hmm.

 

[Kyro]

It doesn't look like loyalty affects city spamming/capturing much so I doubt it'll get slower if anything as that is the most powerful element in all strategies. Eurekas and Inspirations are still at 40% at least and alliances are not mutually exclusive to the blitz strategies we have now. We have no word of exploits being fixed this expansion either. The nerf on the 100% building cards might hurt quite a bit but I believe it's being overcompensated by governor abilities and alliance trade routes.

Oh and Scotland is going to have 100% production boosts for the entirety of the game from the looks of things, unless they somehow limit each boost to once per city state but that looks technically impossible since that distinction is not made known in the diplomacy window. That means Scotland is probably going to make it even faster.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

Unlike the vanilla, the spaceport can be purchased directly by governor, even the space project can be filled by builders through the Royal Society in government plaza. So GP purchasing may no longer useful.
100% building policies nerf; eureka nerf; the science output of population nerf; and if you're going too fast, science cost increase.... It is likely that the bottleneck will shift from money to technology in R&F.
By the way, It seems that there is still no science/culture penalty for conquering fast/playing wide, so I think if you want to be the fastest, it still mostly depends on your conquering speed.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Take care and make use of the +100% Science policy card.

Unlike vanilla, in R & F SV in higher difficulties may be slower, since the world may progress to Renaissance too quickly so that you lose the 100% science card. This also indicates that high and low difficulty( or faster or slower Civ, starting locations, etc), may lead to very different SV route.

Your strategy highly depends on world era progress and your related speed. Winning at Medival, Renaissance and Industrial, will be very, very different.

 

[pgm123]

Take care and make use of the +100% Science policy card.

This only applies to cities with 4+ adjacency and a population of 10+ now, doesn't it? Or am I confusing it with a different card?

 

[Arent11]

Unlike the vanilla, the spaceport can be purchased directly by governor, even the space project can be filled by builders through the Royal Society in government plaza. So GP purchasing may no longer useful.
100% building policies nerf; eureka nerf; the science output of population nerf; and if you're going too fast, science cost increase.... It is likely that the bottleneck will shift from money to technology in R&F.
By the way, It seems that there is still no science/culture penalty for conquering fast/playing wide, so I think if you want to be the fastest, it still mostly depends on your conquering speed.

I guess they did that because they saw that aztecs have a unique advantage & the simplest way to give all civs the same possibilities was to allow builders in general add to the space projects.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

This only applies to cities with 4+ adjacency and a population of 10+ now, doesn't it? Or am I confusing it with a different card?

Of course the Classical/Medival Dark age policy,

Holy Site provide +100% Science, but -25% Culture.

I don't really care about the Rationalism card in fact. It may be useful, but R & F SV you probably won't get to Rationlism too quickly( due to the -25% culture )

 

[pgm123]

Of course the Classical/Medival Dark age policy,

Holy Site provide +100% Science, but -25% Culture.

I don't really care about the Rationalism card in fact. It may be useful, but R & F SV you probably won't get to Rationlism too quickly( due to the -25% culture )

Oh, I got you. I was confusing cards. You'll also have to choose your dedications carefully to avoid leaving the Dark Age.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Oh, I got you. I was confusing cards. You'll also have to choose your dedications carefully to avoid leaving the Dark Age.

In fact you only need the medival one. In classical I suspect we won't have that much campus and holy sites to make sense, more importantly, the 1st wildcard government.

Assume era systems works as it shows, then an era lasts 26~40 turns in quick speed, which is 40~60 turns in normal speed, so medival is possible to get at T80~120/ 120~180, which satisfies your SV time. (Currently this is around T140, in R & F due to the 100% bonus the victory time will be around T130 for normal civ with a typical starting location I think.

 

[pgm123]

In fact you only need the medival one. In classical I suspect we won't have that much campus and holy sites to make sense, more importantly, the 1st wildcard government.

Assume era systems works as it shows, then an era lasts 26~40 turns in quick speed, which is 40~60 turns in normal speed, so medival is possible to get at T80~120/ 120~180, which satisfies your SV time. (Currently this is around T140, in R & F due to the 100% bonus the victory time will be around T130 for normal civ with a typical starting location I think.

Gotcha. So you'll only need the one Dark Age? Would you plan to try to springboard that into a heroic age or is that unnecessary? There's a dedication that gives you Era Points per kill of non-barbarians. Seems to fit with a Knight-heavy strategy. It seems Classical Golden Age would be the way to go because it makes the Dark Age more likely for the Medieval. But you'd have to pick the dedication that you'll be least likely to get. I'm not familiar with what they are for that era except the Eureka one.

It seems a bit tricky to conquer during a Dark Age. Would you raze cities to avoid the loyalty pressure? Or do you think with governors it won't be enough of a problem?

 

[NegativeZero]

Of course the Classical/Medival Dark age policy,

Holy Site provide +100% Science, but -25% Culture.

I don't really care about the Rationalism card in fact. It may be useful, but R & F SV you probably won't get to Rationlism too quickly( due to the -25% culture )

Since the boost is +100% science from the city w/ holy site (and not a specific source), wouldn't that boost the science yields of specialist slots in the campus? Converting 2 food to 2 science (4 science with policy) seems worth it considering you don;t wish to grow your cities too big.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Gotcha. So you'll only need the one Dark Age? Would you plan to try to springboard that into a heroic age or is that unnecessary? There's a dedication that gives you Era Points per kill of non-barbarians. Seems to fit with a Knight-heavy strategy. It seems Classical Golden Age would be the way to go because it makes the Dark Age more likely for the Medieval. But you'd have to pick the dedication that you'll be least likely to get. I'm not familiar with what they are for that era except the Eureka one.

It seems a bit tricky to conquer during a Dark Age. Would you raze cities to avoid the loyalty pressure? Or do you think with governors it won't be enough of a problem?

A renaissance heroic age is good, if you have enough time. But what I suspect is that we'll finish our SV before renaissance.

Also, it depends on how difficult to maintain dark ages, is it possible to get a dark age from a dark age, without disturbing your development? (Since you're actually developing fast you're sure to get a lot of Golden age points from techs, civics, suzerains or captures)

 

[spfun]

What a well designed, balanced civ game we have when we've got people winning SV in 120 turns on standard... *sarcasm* What was the fastest wins in civ V?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

What a well designed, balanced civ game we have when we've got people winning SV in 120 turns on standard... *sarcasm* What was the fastest wins in civ V?

I guess it's somewhere around T100(Standard Speed)?

Civ V have trade bug that you can get infinite amount of money by trading...

Maybe around T150 if not using trade bug. (for fastest SV)

Normally SV lasts for 200~220 turns I think.