Will the new mod kit let us have more combat attributes?

[general hein]

While the 1 number for combat may make the game easier to understand, I want to be able to play historic combat scenarios. Being able to give units attack and defense stats seems essential if you want to have more realistic warfare. The new mod kit will allow us to change the basic code of the game, so in theory we should be able to do code this in. Really the question is, do you think it will be too hard to change the basic elements of combat for civ 4?

 

[The Great Apple]

Is it really that unrealistic? If a group of swordsmen starting attacking some knights, would the knights not change - making them the "attacker"?

To answer your question... maybe. I'd say probably.

 

[BomberEscort]

...Being able to give units attack and defense stats seems essential if you want to have more realistic warfare...

There is a work around for this. It is not exactly what you are looking for but it is close. The following CIV4UnitInfos.xml entries can be used to simulate this:

<UnitClassAttackMods/> Used to give a strength bonus while attacking a certain unit (must be a specific unit, eg - UNITCLASS_RIFLEMAN, use multiple entries if necessary)

<UnitClassDefenseMods/> Used to give a strength bonus while defending against a certain unit (must be a specific unit, eg - UNITCLASS_RIFLEMAN, use multiple entries if necessary)

<UnitCombatMods/> Used to give a strength bonus against a certain unit class of units (must be a class of units and not a specific unit, eg - UNITCOMBAT_MELEE, use multiple entries if necessary)

UnitCombatMods give the bonus to strength in all cases (attacking or being attacked).

Note to developers: Break up <UnitCombatMods> into <UnitCombatAttackMods> and <UnitCombatDefenseMods> allowing for attack only bonuses (or defensive) against a certain group of units (eg - Melee), but keep the original <UnitCombatMods>. This would keep me from having to enter every unit in a group into <UnitClassAttackMods> and give the users the flexibilty of attack only modifications against Melee units, for example.

<DomainMods> Used to give a strength bonus against a certain domain (ie - land, air, sea). Must be a domain only (ie - DOMAIN_SEA, DOMAIN_LAND, DOMAIN_AIR)

For example:

1) a Grenadier has a UnitClassAttackMod of 50% verses Riflemen. This means that when attacking Riflemen, it has a strength of 18 and when defending it has a strength of 12.

2) Currently nothing uses UnitClassDefenseMod, but the principle is the same as #1

3) There are several examples for UnitCombatMods: Infantry has a 25% bonus against all Gunpowder units, whether defending or attacking.

4) A Bomber is an example of a domain mod. It is -50% vs all Ships (DOMAIN_SEA)

With these settings you can create, with a lot of effort, your attack and defensive strength units. Although the units would still have one overall strength, this level of customizing allows us to take it farther than default Civ IV.

 

[Seven05]

Well thank you BomberEscort, you just saved me a lot of typing

I actually prefer the unitclass mods over the unitcombat mods as it eliminates some odd effects and it only makes sense that certian units only receive a bonus when attacking or defending but not both.

First you have the age old argument of can "Unit A" defeat "Unit B" (typically this is Spearman/Tank). I prefer to think of it as can this old, neglected out of date unit that hasn't been given any new supplies or training in a thousand years beat a new, up to date unit with recent training? By using unitclass rather than unitcombat mods you solve this problem entirely. Now you can having things like a spearman that is effective against chariots but receives no bonus against calvary. It also allows you to tone down some of the obviously superior units. For example the Axeman receives a +50% bonus versus all melee units, whether attacking or defending. Combine that with minimal promotions and defensive bonuses and you have the flawless counter to the swordsmen. But, change that to an attack bonus only and now the axeman is mediocre, at best, when used to defend. Then there are some of the other odd bonuses like infantry receiving a +25 bonus against gunpowder units when it is a gunpowder unit itself, obviously a "quick hack" to ensure it's better than other gunpowder units but no better against tanks, for example.

Anyway, I could go on for days but just consider that it is well worth the effort to go through and expand/correct some of the initial bonuses given to units. I'll be releasing my new combat mod in a few days if you want to see the effect without doing it yourself. It's a much better way of doing things, combat is no more complicated than before but it has more depth and there is more incentive to keep your units using current technology. Best part of this all is that the AI understands it perfectly.