Win Rate Data - Please post your games' results here!

I guess this thread is over, but I remember Gazebo saying it cheered him up to hear about losses, so:

Tried a Standard speed Emperor game with Shoshone and got conquered by Mongolia, and Marathon speed Deity game with Ottoman Turks where I nearly got conquered by Songhai. I messed up forward settling Catherine, and ended up with a city in the middle of her empire that I could have played on from.
 
I never said people should stop posting, I just said that I don't really feel like doing the chore of updating the chart anymore and haven't done it in too long.

Perhaps this thread should be reopened by someone else who's willing to do it.
 
Wodhann said:
I never said people should stop posting, I just said that I don't really feel like doing the chore of updating the chart anymore and haven't done it in too long.
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Too bad, the mighty G have spoken, you have no choice but to obey :D
 
Even if the initial purpose was to survey how civs were doing, it's definitely interesting to read those mini-AAR. This same post could be left for that purpose.

If you want to make some statistics, I think it's more logical to do it on the same version, and without AARs. Also, reduce questions.
So, open a post for current beta: 21/5 stats, asking more or less the same
CIV, Settings (consider Communitas map, standard pace and normal size the standards, so only mention any setting if it differs from standard), Difficulty, (don't ask relative difficulty, it's too difficult to evaluate, and it changes as the player improves), total turns and Outcome (victory type or defeat type). Maybe ask also for thoughts, but that's better left for the announcement of the beta post.

Like:
Rome, Marathon, King, t.340, conquered by Arabia.
Polynesia, Prince, t433, Diplo victory. (tougher than expected)

This is much easier to manage. Although it lacks the beauty of the AAR, so maybe separated is better.
 
Wodhann said:
Difficulty level by itself literally means nothing if you don't know the person's skill. It's completely relative.
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My point is that it really doesn't matter, and that this is very difficult to evaluate objectively. The outcome is a fact (win or lose), the difficulty set is a fact (Prince, Emperor), but the supposed difficulty is an opinion. Not that you cannot do statistics on opinions, but I think it's not very useful and requires extra effort on posters.
Usually players try a level they think can win with some challenge. If they find the difficulty too easy, they will move to a harder one, too punishing and they may lower it. So I think it's safe to say that most players play to it's ability level, sooner than later. Exceptions are testers that search for bugs or AI failures.

So, if AI improves and games become harder, we'll see an increasing number of defeats, followed by some games played at lower difficulties or achieving victories once new mechanics are learned. We could also monitor the distribution of player skills for those who care posting, prefered civs, most common non-standard settings. And most importantly, which victories/defeats are more likely, which of them happen sooner or maybe too soon.

Recently posted game results are very few, and it's difficult to say anything about this (you need big numbers to make good statistics). AARs are informative, but depends on the analitic skills of the poster.
 
tu_79 said:
My point is that it really doesn't matter, and that this is very difficult to evaluate objectively. The outcome is a fact (win or lose), the difficulty set is a fact (Prince, Emperor), but the supposed difficulty is an opinion. Not that you cannot do statistics on opinions, but I think it's not very useful and requires extra effort on posters.
Usually players try a level they think can win with some challenge. If they find the difficulty too easy, they will move to a harder one, too punishing and they may lower it. So I think it's safe to say that most players play to it's ability level, sooner than later. Exceptions are testers that search for bugs or AI failures.

So, if AI improves and games become harder, we'll see an increasing number of defeats, followed by some games played at lower difficulties or achieving victories once new mechanics are learned. We could also monitor the distribution of player skills for those who care posting, prefered civs, most common non-standard settings. And most importantly, which victories/defeats are more likely, which of them happen sooner or maybe too soon.

Recently posted game results are very few, and it's difficult to say anything about this (you need big numbers to make good statistics). AARs are informative, but depends on the analitic skills of the poster.
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Here's the problem though:

Person 1: "I lost three games! They were too hard! I was playing Greece in all three."

Person 2: "Hm, this seems to point a bit towards greece being underpowered..."

Person 1: "Yeah man I was playing Deity for the first time and Greece just sucks"

Person 2: "... Yeah Greece might not be the problem here"

Without relative difficulty a win/loss stat is kind of meaningless.
 
Wodhann said:
Here's the problem though:

Person 1: "I lost three games! They were too hard! I was playing Greece in all three."

Person 2: "Hm, this seems to point a bit towards greece being underpowered..."

Person 1: "Yeah man I was playing Deity for the first time and Greece just sucks"

Person 2: "... Yeah Greece might not be the problem here"

Without relative difficulty a win/loss stat is kind of meaningless.
Click to expand...

You aren't asking for opinions. You're asking facts.
This goes like this:
Greece, Deity, turn 120, conquered by Shaka.
Greece, Deity, turn 350, Poland won cultural
Greece, Deity, turn 333, Germany won diplo.
We can think that a) the player is not good at deity or b) is not good with Greece or c) he's having problems winning with Greece in deity.
But we don't bother with a single player problem, we're trying to see the big picture.

Of course some players are going to try something harder than they can handle, but I don't think this is the rule.

EDIT. Of course, you can do as you wish, it's you who is giving your time into it, so do it as you see fit. I just think with less info, but better it may be easier for you to keep track.
 
Ok time for my mini AAR.
Version 6/15, Ethiopia, Prince (more or less my level), Communitas, normal pace, normal size.
Tried culture victory, to see how it performs now. Cultural victory on turn 295 (could have been faster, I got distracted).

Map was weird. Two very small continents, everybody crowded, Tradition was a must. I wanted to try culture with Tafari, as its ability grants techs with full social trees and with religious beliefs. I picked the tundra pantheon (had two cities with lots of resources in tundra) and I believe I was first to take a religion. My founder belief: expending GPs, of course, so I could benefit for going Tradition. In my small continent I had Korea with just one city, Soshone, Morocco and France. In the other one were Bizanz, Indonesia and Iroquois. France was the only one attempting something harsh, but never took anything except a pity CS. Wars with Morocco were common, and they fought mostly in my territory, cause I were in the middle. (I was first to take Mt Sinai).
I just focused in culture and raised a unit or two whenever my friends told me that Napoleon was plotting again against me. Being next to Korea was good for improving my research, even Morocco was rather advanced, I practically neglected science. I picked Rationalism tree, but only because my empire was rather small and peaceful. Order later, but I guess it didn't matter.
Civs in the other continent were frankly backwards. Iroquois conquered Constantinopla and that's it.

I expanded a little to some islands, just for tactical reasons, but I didn't need to worry, for the map was 85% water. Bussiness as usual, beelined archaeologists, and I was almost winning before digging. If I had faith-purchased more musicians I would have won really fast, but France at least attacked me with his musqueteers (I think it was the sight of my archaeologist in its lands what pulled the lever), and I got distracted with that war. A couple of musicians to Morocco was enough to finish the game.

AI cannot possibly win if it doesn't make an extra effort on culture, at least in middle difficulty levels.
 
So basically I have a game that I'm not going to finish because of a bug: the retreating unit bug.

Playing on Standard as Morocco, Communitas. Doing just fine and on a way to a win with Diplomacy most likely; although I'm not the biggest or most powerful around, my Faith is solid, my Culture is solid, and my military is solid. But...

...any war that should occur inevitably involves city insta-kills from opponents who opt to attack my city with a melee unit from more than 1 tile away. The city retains full hit points when this happens, and often realistically at such a surprise, the only way to take it back is to insta-kill it in return. In order to protect my cities from this, I need to surround every city with units so nothing can get into melee range, which is an unimaginable pain in the butt. Basically, this bug is just making warring really dumb...the game is rather unenjoyable until it is fixed somehow. :/
 
Gidoza said:
So basically I have a game that I'm not going to finish because of a bug: the retreating unit bug.

Playing on Standard as Morocco, Communitas. Doing just fine and on a way to a win with Diplomacy most likely; although I'm not the biggest or most powerful around, my Faith is solid, my Culture is solid, and my military is solid. But...

...any war that should occur inevitably involves city insta-kills from opponents who opt to attack my city with a melee unit from more than 1 tile away. The city retains full hit points when this happens, and often realistically at such a surprise, the only way to take it back is to insta-kill it in return. In order to protect my cities from this, I need to surround every city with units so nothing can get into melee range, which is an unimaginable pain in the butt. Basically, this bug is just making warring really dumb...the game is rather unenjoyable until it is fixed somehow. :/
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Disable animations.

G
 
I've lost quite a few more than winning recently while playing on Emperor. The new AI wars are the majority of my losses. Then I just played Zulus and started to win again because of how fast and stupid their ranged units can get with all the unit spams now. Majority of my losses were to warmonger civs and being conquered (Greece, Shaka [when I'm not playing him], Rome are the biggest culprits). Lost to Egypt once, and then I just do restarts if I see an Egypt AI in the game.

To sum it up:
Emperor games
America - Lost to triple war declare, Jakarta got the finisher. It was an alliance of Greece/Huns at first and then Indonesia came in to take my capital. (I was stuck between all of them)
Morocco - Conquered by Rome on turn 130~.
Morocco 2 - Rome AGAIN. Turn 200.
Byzantine - Lost to Greece/Mongolia gangbang.
Zulu - Conquest Victory on turn 340~.
Korea - Egyptian cultural/science victory established. I quit on turn 200 before it went any further because it was futile.

King
Austria - Loss. Iroquois cultural victory turn 340. (I was the only one warring him and I could only survive since everyone seemed to declare on me instead and kept denying me city states together, even if their diplomats come from all the way across the map)
Shoshone - Cultural victory turn 400. Thanks to mount Kilimanjaro giving me that hill bonus at my front choke to hold off Attila at all times.
Shoshone 2 - Conquered by Shaka/Caesar turn 150.
Inca - Cultural victory turn 220. Shaka was too slow on the invade (but then again, not much he can do even then because I had two very good choke points). I just ran away with Goddess of Nature early on.

Edit: Added another one because nobody posted yet.
 
Japan/Tectonics/Deity/Huge/Marathon

Culture win

Funny map, with like 90% water.
I was crammed on one island with China, Korea and Inca. Each of us had room for two cities, and then we had to start to fight. Which we did, everyone was declaring on everyone else all the time. In the end I prevailed and had the island for myself. Meanwhile I found Morocco, Ethiopia and Rome on neighboring islands. Morocco and Ethiopia has some space for luxurious 4 cities each, but Rome was restricted to two. He didn't like me, I didn't like him either so I put him out of his misery. Despite me killing 4 civs dead, the remaining civs liked me (or pretended to). Since Morocco and Ethiopia were too powerful to be walked over, other civs too far away, I played peaceful for a while.
I found backwards Iroquois, whose 3-city island I added to my lands. Of course, once Ideologies came around people got angry and first Carthage, then Morocco attacked me. However, against my elite Navy bot attacks only ended in the demise of the respective civ. In principle, I was on a very good way to domination victory, but since my archeologists swarmed all over the map, I won a culture victory before.
Strange thing in the end, even though I had by far the largest tourism output, I had discontents. Don't know how that happens, maybe because of opposing world ideology? Regardless, I had to revolt to freedom to win (can't win by culture if you suffer ideology discontent).

Policies were: Full honor, full Liberty, full Exploration, a lot in Order, switch to Freedom on last turn.

I founded with sea god pantheon, but Ethiopia swarmed me with missionaries. First time I experienced that AI goes after my cities when I founded myself. Probably because I did a bad job of spreading my religion. Well, for many cities his religion was better than mine anyway, so no big deal.
 
Civilization: Persia
Game Settings: Epic Pace / Fractal Map / Standard Size
Relative Rank: Easier (Immortal)
Outcome: Domination Victory
Version: 6/15, I think

Quick background:
I only recently began using this patch, and usually play Deity in the base game. This was my second Immortal game, the first being a Babylon game that I quit at the end out of boredom - I intentionally attempted a mostly peaceful Science Victory, and didn't realize at that time just how long that takes at the end, especially on Epic pace.

Game summary:
Interesting map, as is usual with the Fractal setting. There were 3 continents:
1: Myself (Persia), Spain, Siam
2: India, Babylon, China
3. Egypt, Greece

I went Authority (Finish) > Tradition (3 - filler) > Rationalism (Finish) > Autocracy (3)
I had a coastal start on a thin continent with Spain close by. Spain started off forward settling me to get Fountain of Youth very early. The thin continent and awkward placement of city states made it so I really only had 2 expand options, and neither were strong: a mostly Tundra location to the north, and a large island shared by a city state to the south. Spain DoW me early, which put me in war production early, and I wiped her out in a counter attack. Went on to conquer Siam > China > Babylon > Greece and was prepping to take out Egypt when I got in a two front war unexpectedly.

Ghandi was my bro this whole game, despite my genocidal tendencies. His capitol was right next to the Babylon cities I took, and was WIDE open terrain wise, though he was ahead of me in science and had a very large navy and land army. I thought he would be my friend right to the end when I could quickly buy some artillery and blitz him, but he surprised me with a DoW right when I DoW'd Egypt. My entire navy and land army was on another continent, and I only had a few conscripted untis from the Authority finisher to defend the Babylonian conquests, and my capitol was wide open to his navy. Turtled hard, flipped a border city several times, and he got my Capitol in the red at one point...but I counter attacked taking both Thebes and Dheli around the same time on turn 460.

I plan on trying deity next. If I can be honest I've found this patch to make the game easier if you play wide and are super aggressive. The base game discouraged aggressive play through a very harsh happiness mechanic, and without that mechanic I feel like I snowball quickly.

We'll see what happens in Deity though ;)
 
Aztecs/Pangea/Deity/Huge/Marathon

Culture win (unfinished)

As Aztecs, going on a rampage seems appropriate. I picked god of war, and fought from the beginning. And the yields flew!
I was on the eastern part of the Pangea, and during the frist couple of ages killed Polynesia, Songai, Siam and made Poland my vassal.
Still, every other civ wanted to be my friend.
After that I stopped conquering, as I didn't want to attack a friend. Instead I sent out swarms of Archeologists and got most of the artifacts of the world.
With all the culture from kills and conquests , I was way ahead of all other civs in policies, and got to pick first ideology for filling three trees, which is rare for me. I went Honour/Progress/Exploration/Order. A good combination to wage war, but it allows only one kind of GPs to buy (GGs and GAs you have enough of anyway).
After a while, my only Neighbor England and the most powerful AI Inca declared war. The Inca were very far away and never did anything. England was easily beaten. Still a domination victory was out of the question, since even conquering just half of England dropped me from +80 to -60 happiness, and there were still India, Russia, Germany of the same size, Inca of twice that size and Venice left.
Finally my PC couldn't load the save any more, but as I was close to winning by culture anyway and had two great musicians in store, it was just a question of waiting for the Incas to make peace and bomb them anyway.
 
China/Tectonics/Deity/Huge/Marathon

Loss

I had the Mongols as my Neighbor. The land between us was very flat and open, so I thought it would be a good idea to harass them with chariots. Ghengis, however thought it a better idea to flood me with archers. Before I had even researched a military tech, he came knocking with ten units and got my cap on turn 150.

A shame, since I got a perfect Pantheon, but nicely done, Ghengis.
 
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