Win Rate Data - Please post your games' results here!

[Wodhann]

This is a thread to help balance the CBP with win rate statistics.

For every game you complete, post the following:

Civilization - Who you played as

Victory Type - Domination , Science , Diplomacy , Cultural or Defeat

Relative Rank - Single-player only. Choose one:

Easier: You played a difficulty rank below your own level of play (example, an Immortal player playing Prince)

Compatible: You played within your own level of play (example a King-level player playing King)

Harder: You played above your play level (example a Prince player playing Emperor)

Insane: You played WAAAY above your play level (example a Chieftain/Prince player playing Immortal/Deity)​

Outcome - Choose one:

Walk in the Park: Game was not challenging at all and you stomped the adversaries.

Challenge: Game was fair and challenging.

Moral Defeat: Game was only won because of some flaw in the AI or game balance. This includes winning by savescumming or exploit.

Defeat: You lost and accepted the defeat. (In case of games ending with an AI civ winning, tell us which civ won and how)​

CBP Version^(New!) - Which version you're using. Won't count for stats but it's relevant for Gazebo to know if you're playing with the latest changes.

Additional Info - Optional, say something about the game and why it was easy/hard.​

___

STATS TABLE​

Civ | | | | |
America | | | | 1¹ | 1²
Arabia | | | 1¹ | 1¹
Assyria | 3¹
Austria | | | 2²
Aztecs | 2¹ | | | | 1²
Babylon | | | 1¹ | | 1²
Brazil | | | |
Byzantium | 1¹ | 1¹ | 1¹ | 1¹
Carthage
Celts | 1¹ | 2²
China | | | | 1¹
Denmark
Egypt | | | | 3¹ | 2³
England
Ethiopia | | | | 1¹ | 1¹
France
Germany | | | 1¹
Greece | | | 2⁰ | 1¹
Huns | 1¹ | | | 1¹ | 1²
Inca | 1¹ | | 1¹ | 2² | 1³
India | 2²
Indonesia | | 1¹ | | | 1²
Iroquois | | 1¹ | | 1¹
Japan | 3¹ | 1¹
Korea | | | |
Maya | | | | 2² | 1¹
Mongolia | 1¹
Morocco | | | 1¹ |
Netherlands | | 1¹ | | 1¹
Ottomans | | 1¹
Persia
Poland | 1² | | 1¹
Polynesia | | | | 1¹
Portugal
Rome | 2²
Russia | | | 1¹
Shoshone
Siam | | | 1¹ | | 2³
Songhai | | | 1¹
Spain | 1¹ | 1¹
Sweden | | | | | 1²
Venice | | | 1¹
Zulu | 1¹ | | | | 2³

Numbers are colored by comparing the prediction of game outcome and the actual outcome, based on stated player level and chosen difficulty.
█: Games are overall easier than they should have been
█: Predictions are overall correct
█: Games are overall harder than they should have been
█: One prediction canceled another (making the strength 0) which means it's sort of an in-between until more data comes up.
Numbers (¹, ², ³) mean the strength of the color in question, higher number suggesting that a certain outcome happens more frequently and/or with more significance. To avoid redundancy and for the sake of staying dynamic, numbers like this will cap at 10, represented by an X.​

Spoiler How this works :

Final difficulty will be evaluated comparing your relative rank and outcome. In other words, while playing a Compatible Challenging game is expected, an Easier Moral Defeat is highly unexpected and a sign that something is off.

The way the "exponential" numbers work is, basically the "strength" of a certain prediction. Predictions are indicated by colors. Olive being that the game was predicted correctly, blue being that the game was easier than predicted, and red being that it was harder than predicted.

Strength from each game finished comes from comparing the game outcome and the relative difficulty (which is why this is really important info). Like so:

"Easier" predicts "Walk in the Park"
"Compatible" predicts "Challenge"
"Harder" predicts "Moral Defeat"
"Insane" predicts "Loss"

This is why pretty much all the numbers in the "defeat" column have more strength than the number shown. This does not mean that there is something necessarily wrong, it's just a way to say that one would not predict that outcome based on initial circumstances.

Depending on the type of prediction, by adding a new game result the strength of each number can be increased, decreased, or even nullified converting the number into another prediction. Examples: 1² + 1¹ = 2¹; 1² + 1¹ = 2⁰; 1¹ + 1² = 2¹; and so on.

 

[glaivemaster]

Civilization: Zulu
Victory Type: Domination
Relative Rank: Easier (Emperor playing King to get used to mechanics)
Outcome: Walk in the Park

 

[Funak]

Civilization - Who you played as

Victory Type - Domination , Science , Diplomacy or Cultural

Nice incentive, I'm going to ruin the thread now by not posting a result (I guess I could post the result from my latest game but that wasn't on this version so I'd rather not).

Anyways, are those victory types only for what the actual victory-screen said? I mean I've won plenty of Cultural games by bashing my neighbors back into the stoneage and then getting influential over them, would that count as cultural, domonation or some kind of hybrid?
I guess this problem mostly applies to cultural, as there are multiple ways to win cultural victories.

 

[Wodhann]

That's a good question. I don't know, maybe just count the victory screen, after all that's what caused the victory.

About not posting, unless there were changes made to an specific civ or victory type, the stats will still be relevant I think.

 

[mikes61293]

Civilization: Arabia
Victory Type: Domination
Relative Rank: Compatible (Emperor)
Outcome: Challenge then Walk in the Park

The game started out fairly challenging, but once I established myself the late game became fairly easy.

 

[Gazebo]

That's a good question. I don't know, maybe just count the victory screen, after all that's what caused the victory.

About not posting, unless there were changes made to an specific civ or victory type, the stats will still be relevant I think.

Small request: an optional 'why was your victory easy/difficult' would be nice for me.

Nice initiative here, though I fear it is a nefarious attempt at something related to overhauls.

G

 

[Wodhann]

Small request: an optional 'why was your victory easy/difficult' would be nice for me.

Yeah I'll encourage it in the main post.

 

[callmewoof]

All games Deity, Epic speed. Rank n/a since I always play deity and vanilla deity.

Game 1
Civ: England
Map: Continents
Victory: Domination
Outcome: Walk in the park
Info: UB Factories are probably the best UB in the entire game. Literally. Let's see... 3gpt instead of 4gpt. 3 extra gold from traderoutes instead of none. Costs 10-ish% cheaper production to make. Gives +3 production to coal tiles instead of none. Requires zero coal to make which lets you go crazy building these things and go nuts with your coal. It's available two techs earlier than regular factories. And you get +1 Production per 2 citizens instead of per 4. This thing is so freakin' OP that I wanted to bold or italicize each detail, so as a compromise I'm only doing it with this sentence and you can use your imagination.

Their UU frigate is disgustingly OP too. You're pretty much unstoppable as soon as you get these. I was able to take down the top three world powers in 3 warsat the same time with these. Domination indeed.

Game 2
Civ: Dutch
Map: Earth (vanilla map)
Victory: Culture
Outcome: Depressingly easy
Info: So much culture that I had spies (from Statescraft) before the game gave everyone spies. BTW stealing techs with zero spy defense from any civ is fun. Getting your Ideology in Industrial is bonkers. Didn't even want the culture victory but the game forced it on me.

Game 3
Civ: Dutch
Map: Oval (yuck! Funak, this thing sucks. Only fractal from now on!)
Victory: Culture, unavoidable
Outcome: Dutch, sigh. Dutch can into Policy.
Info: I had enough votes controlled to win the Diplo victory which I didn't want, so I used those votes to NAY the Diplo victory condition world congress thing. I wanted domination, but as I rolled west Siam/Russia/Brazil/Iroquois/Portugal all melted into my 1 city vassal. Shaka put up an insanely amazing fight with a billion units and good pressure, but the game once again screwed me and forced the culture victory on me.

I tried to fight it too: no theme bonuses, no hotels, musicians only for Golden Era but to no avail. Had so much GPT that I was getting 2300 gpt after 1500/turn unit maintenance (I proposed the peaceful resolution in WC) and multiple deals paying the AI 40-60 gpt for a single luxury (nobody liked me). Too much money. Bleh.

Game 4
Civ: India
Map: Fractal
Victory: Domination
Outcome: Challenge!
Info: I was pinned in the middle of the map and for some reason nobody liked me having multiple cities with 20+ pop before a single AI in the entire could get one 20 pop city. The AI had me on my toes and was very clever with joint wars and good unit composition (none of that 10-ranged 1-melee crap). Very, very fun game. Too easy in the end though as infinite population leads to infinite science which leads to having units 1-2 eras ahead of everyone else. Oops.
Favorite screenshot: Iroquois hadn't discovered writing by turn 182 for some reason. They went from 8 cities to complete annihilation (not by me). Remember kids, Illiteracy kills.

 

[Gazebo]

All games Deity, Epic speed. Rank n/a since I always play deity and vanilla deity.

Game 1
Civ: England
Map: Continents
Victory: Domination
Outcome: Walk in the park

Their UU frigate is disgustingly OP too. You're pretty much unstoppable as soon as you get these. I was able to take down the top three world powers in 3 warsat the same time with these. Domination indeed.

Game 2
Civ: Dutch
Map: Earth (vanilla map)
Victory: Culture
Outcome: Depressingly easy

Game 3
Civ: Dutch
Map: Oval (yuck! Funak, this thing sucks. Only fractal from now on!)
Victory: Culture, unavoidable
Outcome: Dutch, sigh. Dutch can into Policy.


Game 4
Civ: India
Map: Fractal
Victory: Domination
Outcome: Challenge!
Favor

I haven't seen Steam Mills perform that well, but if they're regaled as OP, I'll nerf em a bit.

Dutch/India games with latest version, or pre-tweak/nerf?

G

 

[callmewoof]

All games were Pre-Swaptimize, sorry forgot to mention that. But they did include the "AI will attack you with force" and I really, really loved it. Defense wasn't just "5 ranged I'm okay", it took much better unit variety on my part. Going on the offensive was surprisingly harder too, still manageable. Great stuff!

As far as the steam mills go, that's just my personal opinion. Basically my position is "name a single building that gives you 10 production (14 avg city pop by that point in the game), 3 gold trade routes, 3 production resource tiles, no resources required, and available earlier". The 2 tech difference matters more than it seems - you need 3 techs to grab factories (Railroad/Steam/Industrialization). However, going as deep as factories means you are putting off Public Schools (a big no-no), and you can't grab the bottom tree military units. So usually you have to put off factories for awhile in a time where techs are still 12+ turns each (Epic speed). Getting steam mills that early is anecdotal to getting them an entire Era early.

Edit: Also zero resources required. I've never had "too much" coal unless I owned half the world, and I've always had to decide what city gets a factory, what city gets a seaport, and who has to wait until I can acquire my next 3 coal tile in 50 turns.

Again, just my personal opinion.

 

[Gazebo]

All games were Pre-Swaptimize, sorry forgot to mention that. But they did include the "AI will attack you with force" and I really, really loved it. Defense wasn't just "5 ranged I'm okay", it took much better unit variety on my part. Going on the offensive was surprisingly harder too, still manageable. Great stuff!

As far as the steam mills go, that's just my personal opinion. Basically my position is "name a single building that gives you 10 production (14 avg city pop by that point in the game), 3 gold trade routes, 3 production resource tiles, no resources required, and available earlier". The 2 tech difference matters more than it seems - you need 3 techs to grab factories (Railroad/Steam/Industrialization). However, going as deep as factories means you are putting off Public Schools (a big no-no), and you can't grab the bottom tree military units. So usually you have to put off factories for awhile in a time where techs are still 12+ turns each (Epic speed). Getting steam mills that early is anecdotal to getting them an entire Era early.

Edit: Also zero resources required. I've never had "too much" coal unless I owned half the world, and I've always had to decide what city gets a factory, what city gets a seaport, and who has to wait until I can acquire my next 3 coal tile in 50 turns.

Again, just my personal opinion.

We should take this to the england thread, but I think this is worth looking into.

G

 

[callmewoof]

We should take this to the england thread, but I think this is worth looking into.

G

Oooohh yeah derp I tend to forget those exist. Thanks!

 

[Enginseer]

Civilization - Byzantine

Victory Type - Domination

Relative Rank - Single-player only. Choose one:

Compatible​

Outcome -

Challenge: Game was fair and challenging.​

Mongolia too strong when you have 41 city-states when he annexes all of them on his single continent, but I've managed to use my religion to spread throughout his entire nation into succumbing to me.

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

Civilization - Polynesia

Victory Type - Culture

Relative Rank - Compatible (immortal)

Outcome - Walk in the Park

I played Terra map, and immediately swam over to the new world. Lost a few turns so, but no big deal on Marathon. Then it was just a matter of setting up Maoris all over the continent, grab most relics and win. There was nothing the AI could do to stop me. But I think it played quite well. Of the 11 civs that remained in the old world, 3 massive powerhouses emerged. Oh, and swaptimize worked very well.

Civilization - Portugal

Victory Type - Loss

Relative Rank - Challenge (Deity)

Outcome - Moral defeat

I tried to archer-rush Asokia. I had three archers surrounding a GG. During AI turn, warrior spawned on top of GG, in the middle of Archers. Ragequit a few turns later.


Civilization - Portugal

Victory Type - Loss

Relative Rank - Challenge (Deity)

Outcome - Defeat

Quite early, the Shoshone came with their carpet, including composite bows. I had one warrior and one archer, which were away trying to remove a barb camp from my intended expo site. And not even succeeding with that.

 

[Wodhann]

EDIT: Nevermind. I guess it won't work most of the time to say which of the AIs "won" a game since often lost games end with the player quitting.

 

[Wodhann]

Civilization - Austria

Victory Type - Diplomacy

Relative Rank - Easier, I think. Still figuring out which level I belong to in this new system.

Outcome - Walk in the Park

Additional Info - Felt Challenging at first because all the wars people started against me but in actuality I didn't really have to do much to defend myself anyway.

Diplomatic Marriage is OP. It's such an advantage. Once you get to a certain point with a city state the other civs have little chance to get them back, and you don't have to do much to revert that either.

 

[Takagi Hiro]

Diplomatic Marriage is OP. It's such an advantage. Once you get to a certain point with a city state the other civs have little chance to get them back, and you don't have to do much to revert that either.

Truth. I've been loving the hell out of them lately, but from a balance standpoint, it's just too much. I've had my city-state allies go on mass conquering sprees for me, even. And when the World Congress comes around, good game. I'm not sure what needs to change. Price? Decay? GP generation? Regardless, something is just too much about them. I'd hate to see my enjoyment with them be nerfed a bit, but it probably does need to happen.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Small request: an optional 'why was your victory easy/difficult' would be nice for me.

Nice initiative here, though I fear it is a nefarious attempt at something related to overhauls.

G

Seeing Gazebo talk about overhauls... it fills you with DETERMINATION!

I am but a vessel through which Undertale spills. I'm so sorry.

 

[Gazebo]

Truth. I've been loving the hell out of them lately, but from a balance standpoint, it's just too much. I've had my city-state allies go on mass conquering sprees for me, even. And when the World Congress comes around, good game. I'm not sure what needs to change. Price? Decay? GP generation? Regardless, something is just too much about them. I'd hate to see my enjoyment with them be nerfed a bit, but it probably does need to happen.

Probably price, methinks.

G

 

[Funak]

Probably price, methinks.

The price probably needs to scale with something, and scale a lot faster than it currently does. During the gold-inflation around midgame this becomes WAY too cheap. Possibility to have a completely different resource that you use to marry the city-state.