Without the Mids (SSE/WE Immortal wt)
- Thread starter obsolete
- Start date
The Rook
King
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
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- 788
If there aren't any GA's on standby!
Guardian_PL
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,231
Yes, we ARE waiting. 
I'm deeply impressed by Your game, with that start I would think of reload even on Monarch, not to mention Immortal
So I have absolutely no problem that You finish the game in 1990, not 1900. With that start? I'd lose, for sure.
I'm deeply impressed by Your game, with that start I would think of reload even on Monarch, not to mention Immortal
So I have absolutely no problem that You finish the game in 1990, not 1900. With that start? I'd lose, for sure.
obsolete:
I've often commented that the GP-Wonder cycle relies on trait acceleration - either Industrious or Philosophical. Philo doesn't accel the first Wonder, but it does greatly accelerate the arrival of GPs thereafter, much more than Industrious accelerates the production of Wonders. In the context of this strategem, they seem rather similar in function.
My suspicion is that it can only be done with acceleration in either or both arms of the GP-Wonder cycle. Would you be able to pull this strategy off with Genghis Khan?
I've often commented that the GP-Wonder cycle relies on trait acceleration - either Industrious or Philosophical. Philo doesn't accel the first Wonder, but it does greatly accelerate the arrival of GPs thereafter, much more than Industrious accelerates the production of Wonders. In the context of this strategem, they seem rather similar in function.
My suspicion is that it can only be done with acceleration in either or both arms of the GP-Wonder cycle. Would you be able to pull this strategy off with Genghis Khan?
Bleys
Deity
I gotta tell you obsolete, of all the posters who do games, I think I like your "style" the best. Saddly, I have difficulty translating some of your strats to Vanilla, but as soon as I get BTS, I plan to work my SSE/WE techniques to the max. Such cool stuff.
Veggiehater
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2007
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- 13
I find it strange that questions like these often appear in obsolete's threads. It's fairly obvious that obsolete likes maximizing 3 traits in particular: Industrious, Philosophical and Spiritual.
I rarely (maybe never) see any comments like this in other public games, for instance you don't see people go "Well that was all well and good that you were able to Impi rush with Shaka but do you think you'd be able to pull that strategy off with Saladin?"
My point being this, with a strategy that relies on accumulation of GPP what is so wrong with using the traits that maximizes their benefits when demonstrating them publicly?
Nothing. There's nothing wrong with it. My point is that I don't think this is a strategy you can use with just any leader. Clearly, you think the same. obsolete in this thread is trying to say "Well, it doesn't have to be Industrious!" but then goes around and boosts the other arm of the feedback loop with Philosophical.
Genghis Khan is neither and also promotes expansion with Imperialistic and Aggressive. I'd like to see if the strategem can be made to work with these traits (or really, any other trait combo that doesn't have cycle-boosting effects).
Genghis Khan is neither and also promotes expansion with Imperialistic and Aggressive. I'd like to see if the strategem can be made to work with these traits (or really, any other trait combo that doesn't have cycle-boosting effects).
Guardian_PL
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,231
Exactly.
If one plays with SSE it's pretty obvious that wonder building has to take place some time. Of course that to some extent one can do it with other leaders, but with Agg/Imp it's a tad better to concentrate on war, right? For the same reason Obsolete reloaded few times to not have stone close by in order to not use it. Because having stone and not leveraging it would be plainly silly like he said.
It's all about maximizing leader's traits.
Some said that SE is all and nice, but without mids is not so nice anymore. So obsolete shows us it's doable. But that's not enough, now ppl are b***ing that he ends game too late and plays with Phil/Ind leaders
If one plays with SSE it's pretty obvious that wonder building has to take place some time. Of course that to some extent one can do it with other leaders, but with Agg/Imp it's a tad better to concentrate on war, right? For the same reason Obsolete reloaded few times to not have stone close by in order to not use it. Because having stone and not leveraging it would be plainly silly like he said.
It's all about maximizing leader's traits.
Some said that SE is all and nice, but without mids is not so nice anymore. So obsolete shows us it's doable. But that's not enough, now ppl are b***ing that he ends game too late and plays with Phil/Ind leaders
Anyone tell me the point of NOT using a phil or ind leader if your strategy relies on spamming wonders and settling gp's? That's just being counterproductive and bad play. I'm not saying it's not possible but it's just stupid.
Give the poor guy a break already. I think he proved plenty of times this strat works under different circumstances. Now what I would be interested in is a deity win, looking forward to that one.
Give the poor guy a break already. I think he proved plenty of times this strat works under different circumstances. Now what I would be interested in is a deity win, looking forward to that one.
Bleys
Deity
And for the people who play random leaders, isnt it nice to have a powerful strategy when those PHI or IND leaders pop up? If a FIN pops up, are you going with a pure "NO COTTAGES!" thing?
LOL, if anything, I think obsolete is helping to show us one option of a "Style" almost everyone plays. That "style"? Different leadership traits requite different strats, especially at the higher levels. I almost never play different leaders the same exact way, thats just weak.
LOL, if anything, I think obsolete is helping to show us one option of a "Style" almost everyone plays. That "style"? Different leadership traits requite different strats, especially at the higher levels. I almost never play different leaders the same exact way, thats just weak.
actually i found that when i tried his strategy most of the time i got
(a)DOWed
(b)with such late settlers ran out of space
(c)fall hopelessly behind in tech.
(a)DOWed
(b)with such late settlers ran out of space
(c)fall hopelessly behind in tech.
Anyone tell me the point of NOT using a phil or ind leader if your strategy relies on spamming wonders and settling gp's? That's just being counterproductive and bad play. I'm not saying it's not possible but it's just stupid.
Give the poor guy a break already. I think he proved plenty of times this strat works under different circumstances. Now what I would be interested in is a deity win, looking forward to that one.
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
Is that a joke?
If you're afraid of running out of space, block off with expansions, if you can't afford the expansion, just sit the settler there until an AI settler comes.
War? Pay attention to the enemies. Be careful about religion. If they're aggressive, get some units at border cities.
Teching? Don't waste techs, don't trade them off too fast, and build research if you need to.
tuckerthecat
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2006
- Messages
- 63
I'd like to see you post an online game using Genghis Khan in a one city challenge ce dimplomacy win!
I dont understand these posts questioning Obsolete about his strat. Why the hell would you pick a leader with traits that dont support the strat you are using??
If I want to play a ce game I'll use one of the financial civs, If I want to go SE I'll use a phi civ, if I want to use Obsolete's strat I'll use industrius, If I want a game with constant war I'll take one of the warmongers. If I play with random leaders I'll pick the strat that suits whatever leader I get.
The only problem I have with Obsoletes method when I use it is I find myself pretty vulnerable to an early rush, if I make it to the middle ages I can win 99% of my games. ( only monarch & emp )
I use (warlords at emp level) very often a strat inspired by Obsolete (but being less good than him, less extrem), but i try an earlier expansion too.
I may even build some cottages
My experience is that you are indeed very weak in the early game, and can afford it only if your diplomacy is top notch. This works better on continents and without a psycho like Monty or Isabella nearby.
However I was able to put it even with Liz without stone nor marble (but nice hammer heavy capitol)
I may even build some cottages
My experience is that you are indeed very weak in the early game, and can afford it only if your diplomacy is top notch. This works better on continents and without a psycho like Monty or Isabella nearby.
However I was able to put it even with Liz without stone nor marble (but nice hammer heavy capitol)
Bleys
Deity
I will also add that while obsoletes FULL strategy may not be applicable across the board, he has many many tiny things than anyone can apply to almost any game that will make them stronger players.
The difference between Noble and Immortal level players is in the details. Little things, like timing chopping, checking your cities for correct tile usage, etc. Thats what I get out of these (and others), little things I can apply to my own games that make a world of difference. I am following a vanilla game BurN is running closer than many of these BTS games, and he has done some things I would never have considered, like running negative food a few turns to shave a couple turns off an important build, etc.
Technique is everything. Without good direction, players would muddle in Noble and such forever. The proof is in the details, and obsolete is one of THE most "attention to detail" players here.
The difference between Noble and Immortal level players is in the details. Little things, like timing chopping, checking your cities for correct tile usage, etc. Thats what I get out of these (and others), little things I can apply to my own games that make a world of difference. I am following a vanilla game BurN is running closer than many of these BTS games, and he has done some things I would never have considered, like running negative food a few turns to shave a couple turns off an important build, etc.
Technique is everything. Without good direction, players would muddle in Noble and such forever. The proof is in the details, and obsolete is one of THE most "attention to detail" players here.
obsolete
Deity
Well, as someone mentioned, that can be very misleading. Because the next GA they pop will spike that. Also, I expect to finally get some spies to roll good for once in a civc change, and slow that down a tad.
I’ll try to remember to get more details on that in any future games though.
I’m a bit confused. I think you mean, stole, and then traded? Can’t remember now, and too lazy to double check. But I think I did.
I noticed when trying to jump multiple-tear techs, the system tries to block this by giving the old ‘CAN’T TRADE’ routine. But if you trade for the first level, you can then steel the second level tech on the same turn. You can even trade a stolen tech on the same turn you nabbed it. I suspect Firaxis may change that in the future once someone brings it to their attention. It’s probably an exploit, but I don’t consider it a major bug/design flaw, because the game isn’t broke if it remains the way it is. In fact, it opens up some more strategy, and I’m getting tired of the whole linear aspects.
Interesting. And when I was playing WarLords they used to tell me it couldn’t work in BtS since the changes nerfed it
DoW = Declaration of War
I’m just curious where you got this term from originally. I remember first seeing it back in the Empires-In-Harm days.
Anyhow, the last few days I was off on a trip and very busy with other stuff. Now finally I’m back and will post another section.
obsolete
Deity
Part VIII First Blood II
A last minute check at our military advisor after preparing for Egypt.
67 Tanks
15 spies
23 infantry as the main defensive-core, with some auxiliarys about.
Lets unleash hell again!
Note: 65/75 GG Experience
A last minute check at our military advisor after preparing for Egypt.
67 Tanks
15 spies
23 infantry as the main defensive-core, with some auxiliarys about.
Lets unleash hell again!
Spoiler :
Note: 65/75 GG Experience
obsolete
Deity
1909
Alright, we attack in two separate flanks.
We attack Pi-Ramsses here, (because we can), knocking out a border city with its entire defense, (defenses that wont be able to be used to counter-attack us now.
We also attack with our second group in the south-west taking the city of Yayoi, which contains the United Nations. I was debating on razzing this city, just to eliminate the dreaded UN, however I think now that I can hold the city ok, it may be best to use it as a healing/protection base for my thrusts into deeper Egyptian territory. Thus, I am going to keep it instead.
And, we get a Great General.
Alright, we attack in two separate flanks.
We attack Pi-Ramsses here, (because we can), knocking out a border city with its entire defense, (defenses that wont be able to be used to counter-attack us now.
Spoiler :
We also attack with our second group in the south-west taking the city of Yayoi, which contains the United Nations. I was debating on razzing this city, just to eliminate the dreaded UN, however I think now that I can hold the city ok, it may be best to use it as a healing/protection base for my thrusts into deeper Egyptian territory. Thus, I am going to keep it instead.
Spoiler :
And, we get a Great General.
