[GS] Wonder Boost

[Pure24]

Just had a random thought while I was relaxing... what do people think about giving civs boosts to building wonders that historically belong to said civ?

For instance, Inca would get a flat 25% boost towards Machu Picchu, America gets 25% towards Statue of Liberty and Golden Gate Bridge, and so on...

Sure, it wouldn't be balanced because some civs such as the Zulu have no wonder and all, but... that's not really the point here. The point is to actually unbalance it so that it feels appropriate for a civ to build its wonder. This is why I thought giving it such a substantial boost. It would also make getting another civ's wonder feel like a real coup.
Or instead of giving bonus production towards said wonder, you could have an additional yield bonus for a civ building it's native wonder (e.g. +2 culture in every city for a civ which builds its native wonder).

...

As an aside, how about extra yields for Natural Wonders that were historically found within the civ's borders. Perhaps +1 to all yields given by the wonder (and additional +5 combat strength to those that bestow combat bonuses).
Again, broken. But so much more fun, maybe? I don't know, it isn't a fleshed out idea yet... it would really make finding a wonder that much more unique if it belongs to the land in which your civ lived

 

[Karmah]

Just had a random thought while I was relaxing... what do people think about giving civs boosts to building wonders that historically belong to said civ?

For instance, Inca would get a flat 25% boost towards Machu Picchu, America gets 25% towards Statue of Liberty and Golden Gate Bridge, and so on...

Sure, it wouldn't be balanced because some civs such as the Zulu have no wonder and all, but... that's not really the point here. The point is to actually unbalance it so that it feels appropriate for a civ to build its wonder. This is why I thought giving it such a substantial boost. It would also make getting another civ's wonder feel like a real coup.
Or instead of giving bonus production towards said wonder, you could have an additional yield bonus for a civ building it's native wonder (e.g. +2 culture in every city for a civ which builds its native wonder).

...

As an aside, how about extra yields for Natural Wonders that were historically found within the civ's borders. Perhaps +1 to all yields given by the wonder (and additional +5 combat strength to those that bestow combat bonuses).
Again, broken. But so much more fun, maybe? I don't know, it isn't a fleshed out idea yet... it would really make finding a wonder that much more unique if it belongs to the land in which your civ lived

Yeah , I wouldn't like it. Traits are enough for me as a fun factor reminding of the civ. Wonders tied in anyway to real world would spaced out 'the alternate history' fun of civs for me.

 

[The googles do nothing]

For instance, Inca would get a flat 25% boost towards Machu Picchu, America gets 25% towards Statue of Liberty and Golden Gate Bridge, and so on...

I would rather have the civ be rewarded Diplomatic Victory points for building the wonders. Like you said not all civs have wonders to build so you could substitute having city's with natural wonder tiles.

 

[kaspergm]

Not a fan of this idea, mostly for balance reasons.

Also, I don't buy the argument that wonders should be build by civs that have them irl. Civ is not supposed to be a simulation of actual history. I'd rather consider actual history just one example of a playthrough of civ, while each new game gives a different spin on how things could evolve.

 

[Pure24]

Not a fan of this idea, mostly for balance reasons.

Also, I don't buy the argument that wonders should be build by civs that have them irl. Civ is not supposed to be a simulation of actual history. I'd rather consider actual history just one example of a playthrough of civ, while each new game gives a different spin on how things could evolve.

Don't get me wrong, not saying that they SHOULD be built by civs that have them in real life. It's more like an addition to the way civ bonuses are based upon their historical representation.

The way I thought of it initially was a way of making wonders not be 'generic', as in they should have an inherent interaction with the civ you pick, separate from their bonuses. I'm also not pointing out any 'problems' with the game.

But I do appreciate your opinion. Back to the drawing board for me then!

 

[lotrmith]

I'd actually be down for Civ-specific wonders. They all have a unique building/improvement, why not give each a unique wonder or have the occasional wonder thrown into the mix? It might feel better to have a unique wonder than, perhaps, a unique building or improvement that seems lackluster or 'forced' (generic film studio transformed into Hollywood, for example).

Obviously it's too late, for existing balance reasons, but it would have been nice if it were a consideration from the get-go (or a consideration for future installments).

 

[Datian]

I don't think it would affect balance that much - I mean, the civs aren't perfectly balanced, and that's ok.

However, the wonders are meant to be equally available to all the civs, because they're seen as an achievement of humanity. That's been the point in every iteration of the game.

 

[kaspergm]

But I do appreciate your opinion. Back to the drawing board for me then!

That was just my opinion, there's no right or wrong here.

Btw. another thing to consider is replayability. This is already a huge Achilles' heal for Civ6 in my opinion, i.e. that most playthroughs feel the same, even worse when you pick the same civ, because the game heavily pushes you in a specific direction with civ unique abilities (if you play England, you're very likely to go naval, if you play Greece, you'll go culture, if you play Russia, you'll focus on religion and culture, if you play Korea, you'll focus on science, just to name a few of the (admittedly) more obvious). But if you start to give each civ bonus towards specific wonders, this will only make that matter worse.

 

[Jaybe]

Wonders should be PERMITTED in only their countries of origin (or optionally, any of their predecessor or successor states). So, if you want a wonder: play that or one of those civs.

And NO, I am not serious. I AM kidding though.
But is this as valid as any other system?

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions.

 

[Ciarson]

a boost that could be good for balancing would be one tied to the wonder rather than the civ.


you could have boost to wonder that grant bonuses to a specific tile type (or get one from surrounding specific tile, like the "temple of artemis" or "templo mayor" ). that way they would be easier to build in place where they would be the most effective making it as competitive as cities that have less affected tile but large amount of production.

Some example:
Great Bath could have a small production boost for every floodplains tile in the city territory.
Petra could have a small production boost for every desert tile in the city territory.
Chichen Itza could have a small production boost for every rain forest tile in the city territory.
St basile cathedrale could have a small production boost for every toundra tile in the city territory.

of course some civ may have boost that can go well with a specific wonder boost as much as some wonder may be best for a specific civ.

 

[Pure24]

a boost that could be good for balancing would be one tied to the wonder rather than the civ.


you could have boost to wonder that grant bonuses to a specific tile type (or get one from surrounding specific tile, like the "temple of artemis" or "templo mayor" ). that way they would be easier to build in place where they would be the most effective making it as competitive as cities that have less affected tile but large amount of production.

Some example:
Great Bath could have a small production boost for every floodplains tile in the city territory.
Petra could have a small production boost for every desert tile in the city territory.
Chichen Itza could have a small production boost for every rain forest tile in the city territory.
St basile cathedrale could have a small production boost for every toundra tile in the city territory.

of course some civ may have boost that can go well with a specific wonder boost as much as some wonder may be best for a specific civ.

I've long thought about this... wonders in general need a boost. Some do not, but it seems as though they're a sacrifice most do not consider worthwhile, especially on higher difficulties. Buffing instead of nerfing for me seems like a better idea. Throwing out the balance (to a certain extent) makes for more interesting play options - for instance, consider the Mamluk. It was totally OP and unbalanced, but made playing as Arabia interesting; do you take advantage of their guarranteed religion game? Maybe go for a madrasa science strategy? Maybe. And next time, you could go for a crusade. But with that nerf it really stops being a very viable option, to wait for them. Balance restricts variability, which is what civ thrives best on. You could still do a Crusade as Arabia. But it becomes a midgame war strategy utilised just like any other Civ (except Kongo).
Strong unique traits makes them much more unique than weak differences

That was just my opinion, there's no right or wrong here.

Btw. another thing to consider is replayability. This is already a huge Achilles' heal for Civ6 in my opinion, i.e. that most playthroughs feel the same, even worse when you pick the same civ, because the game heavily pushes you in a specific direction with civ unique abilities (if you play England, you're very likely to go naval, if you play Greece, you'll go culture, if you play Russia, you'll focus on religion and culture, if you play Korea, you'll focus on science, just to name a few of the (admittedly) more obvious). But if you start to give each civ bonus towards specific wonders, this will only make that matter worse.

I guess that's one way to look at it. However, I present to you this argument: let's use the United States as an example. They have bonuses on their home continent and a film studio.

But you usually don't have to worry much about loyalty on your home continent, because Capital City. The Statue of Liberty thus can encourage you to go out and conquer another continent. Being able to set it up fast means you may not have to worry so much about loyalty in those instances...

Point is, wonders do not really have the exact bonuses of the civ you're playing as. So you may tweak the Civ-specific bonuses such that building your wonder will not optimise the bonuses you get unless you play in a way that itself is contrary to what that Civ is built for. Thus, you get more options for play rather than less. Sure, you could build the Statue of Liberty as USA. But why would you?

...

PS: Imagine going for Science as Korea and being up against a Civ with its wonder (maybe you also have Macedon in the game and want the Great Library, just as an example). Makes wanting to grab that wonder a very interesting thing to go for... even if you're way ahead, losing that wonder would be a real possibility.

The increased threat of loss makes the decision very engaging, and success that much sweeter, because I think you'd be building wonders which are not your Civ-specific ones WAY more than you will your own