Wonder Building

[eyrei]

Wonder Building

We will have the ability to build three great wonders in the near future. Universal Suffrage will be complete in PDX in 8 turns, and our research on scientific methods will be complete in 4 turns, allowing us to work towards a theory of evolution. Completion of the TOE will allow us to build Hoover Dam.

Here is what I propose. PDX continue it's work on Universal Suffrage. Fox's Nest completes it's factory, builds a place holder for a couple turns, and then starts on the TOE. In the meantime, PDX builds a coal plant in preparation for Hoover Dam. As soon as Fox's Nest finishes the TOE, PDX (with its shiny new coal plant) will build Hoover Dam. Once Hoover Dam is finished, PDX will obviously scrap it's coal plant.

Please discuss.

 

[donsig]

FYI: Fox Nest now makes 21 shields/turn. Its factory will be done in two turns raising its production level to 30 or 31 s/t. Since theory of evolution costs 300 shields it will take 20 turns to build it after the factory is done (22 turns from now).

 

[donsig]

PDX doesn't have a factory yet though it can build one in nine turns. A coal plant would take six turns after that. 8 + 9 +6 = 23 turns so PDX would be ready to start Hoover the turn after theory of evolution is scheduled to finish in Fox Next. Good timing but we are scheduled to research atomic theory and electronic next anyway. We'll have scientific method in 4 turns and then if it takes us less than 18 turns to research atomic theory and electronics then we'll be using ToE for other techs and maybe will even be able to start Hoover before we finish ToE.
BTW, PDX would be making about 50 s/t with the factory and coal plant so Hoover would take 16 turns meaning hoover would be done in PDX in 39 turns from now.
Switching Pherris to factory now would let it finish in two turns. A coal plant would take 7 more turns bringing production up to about 30 s/t. ToE would then take another 20 turns while Hoover would require 27 (either of these by pre-building the palace). That's 29 turns to ToE or 36 turns to Hoover, though these times would decrease with railroading, mining and growth.

There are more possibilities that I will try to summarize later

 

[chiefpaco]

Good plan, Eyrei. I originally thought it would take less time for Pherris to build the ToE if it switched from the MA. Then I realized that the ToE is 200 more shields than the MA so a factory in Fox Nest would make up for the building from scratch.

A scientific study on the optimal time to get ToE might serve us. I am not exactly sure how it works. Isn't it the tech you're researching + 1 of your choice? At what point would it be optimal?

Some numbers for Eyrei's case:
Mil Academy, 400 shields
ToE, 600 shields

PDX is 8 from the US. Has no factory, generates 29 shields.
Fox Nest is 2 turns from a factory. Generates 21 shields.
Pherris is 11 turns from the MA. Has no factory, generates 18 shields.
Both Pherris and Fox Nest could stand for some tile improvement.

Fox Nest might produce 30 shields/turn with a factory. That would make ToE a 20 turn build.

Pherris could be switched to a factory and complete it in 2 turns. It could then restart the Mil Academy and finish it in 15 turns (I think, by factory multiplication of 18 to 27). But it would have a factory too (like getting a 4 turn factory). If Pherris will be making Armies, I think a factory would serve us well there.

 

[donsig]

I've been delving into the wonder building numbers all morning. I'm not sure that switching Fox Nest and/or Pherris to a factory will hasten the building of our great wonders at this point.

For instance, Fox Nest currently makes 21 s/t. Switching to something as a place holder for ToE, would allow Fox Nest to complete ToE in 19 turns. (Faster with railroading.) Building the factory in Fox Next in two turns would boost production in that city to 31 s/t. Building ToE would then take 20 turns plus the 2 invested in the factory for a completion time of 22 turns from now. (This time would decrease as the area was railroaded.)

The numbers for Pherris are similar. BTW, I think we must seriously consider holding off on the military academy as we vie for US, ToE and Hoover. Pherris could complete Hoover in 33 turns if it started pre-building now. It would also be done 33 turns from now if we switch to factory now. Like Fox Nest, these times will decrease as the area is railroaded.

Allowing PDX to complete US and then work on either ToE or Hoover:

Switching to ToE would take 21 turns plus the 8 for US or 29 turns. Building a factory then ToE would take 8 (US) + 9 (factory) + 14 (ToE) or 31 turns. Building a coal plant after the factory would mean ToE would take 33 turns from now. The times for Hoover are longer since it costs 200 more shields than ToE.

To sum up, the quickest we can built the wonders:

US in PDX in 8 turns
ToE in Fox Nest in 19 turns if we switch now
Hoover in Pherris in 33 turns if we switch now

The latter two times would decrease as we railroad the areas. These figures to not include rushing factories or coal plants. That could be done but there is competition for funds from military (22 pikemem to upgrade @ 100 gold each) and CAP (Oka and Hieraconpolis are begging for our culture).

 

[eyrei]

The only way to provid a placeholder in Fox's Nest would be to switch to the military academy and switch Pherris to a Palace.

PDX should definately be the site for Hoover Dam. During the time between finishing US and the TOE, it can build a factory and then rush a coal plant after building for a few turns to reduce the cost. If we get the TOE, which I think we will, there will be no competition for Hoover, so a few turns will not matter. Then Pherris can finish the academy and build the rest of its improvements and then start pumping out armies.

We should reassess on the turn that PDX finishes US, as things do have a tendency to change unexpectadly.

 

[donsig]

RE: putting Hoover in PDX

Without a coal plant in PDX:

Universal Suffrage will be done in 8 turns.
It will take 9 turns to build the factory.
The factory will bring PDX production up to 43 s/t so a coal plant would take only 4 turns to build. I don't think rushing is needed.
The prodution will rise to 50 s/t with the factory / coal plant combo and so Hoover will take 14 turns.

Hoover would be done in (8+9+4+14) = 35 turns from now with out rushing.

Without a coal plant in PDX:

Universal Suffrage will be done in 8 turns.
It will take 9 turns to build the factory.
The factory will bring PDX production up to 43 s/t.
Hoover would take 19 turns to build.

Hoover would be done in (8+9+19) = 36 turns from now without a coal plant.

Rushing the factory would shave turns off this time according to the following schedule:

Spend 4 turns building factory then rush: shaves 4 turns for 496 gold
Spend 5 turns building factory then rush: shaves 3 turns for 380 gold
Spend 6 turns building factory then rush: shaves 2 turns for 264 gold
Spend 7 turns building factory then rush: shaves 1 turn for 148 gold

We could also move our immortal army up to PDX and disband it there while it is working on the factory. I think that would be worth 100 shields. That in itself would shave 4 turns off the time. Letting the factory then build for 3 turns we could shave one more turn by rushing the factory for 212 gold. Hoover would be done 31 turns from now.

Putting US and Hoover in PDX and ToE in Fox Nest makes planning simpler and allows Pherris to continue as our military production center for armies while Civanatoria could become a great military unit factory to fill the armies.

 

[crabapple]

I support building both factory and coal plant before the wonder and dosing have shown that it is faster to build coal plant before the hoover

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by donsig

We could also move our immortal army up to PDX and disband it there while it is working on the factory. I think that would be worth 100 shields. That in itself would shave 4 turns off the time. Letting the factory then build for 3 turns we could shave one more turn by rushing the factory for 212 gold. Hoover would be done 31 turns from now.

Now, this is interesting. I hadn't thought of that. But not for Hoover. We can all but guarantee no competition for Hoover if we get to TOE first. We can all but guarantee getting TOE if we stop the cascade from US. Let's use this army to shave 4 turns off of US, and make sure we build it before anyone else gets scientific method. How many turns will it take to get that army to PDX?

 

[donsig]

We can't disband the army to shave time off of US. We can't rush wonders in any way (gold, shields from cutting down forests or shields from disbanded units). Disbanding the army would only shave turns by allowing us to get a factory or coal plant up quicker.

We could use the army to shave turns off ToE in Fox Next. Let the Nest complete its factory in two turns. Start a coal plant in Fox Nest and disband the army there. We'd only need 60 more shields for the plant so it would be done in three turns (one after we get scientific method). Fox Nest would then need an additional 17 turns to finish ToE, total is 22 turns but railroading done around Fox Nest would greatly enhance its overall production (since it would have the factory/coal pant combo). Railroading 5 tiles would bring production in Fox Nest up to 43 s/t shaving 4 turns for a total of 18 turns from now for ToE.

We'd only gain a turn over just pre-building now in Fox Nest but we'd be swapping the army for a factory and (temporary) coal plant in our capital.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by eyrei


Now, this is interesting. I hadn't thought of that. But not for Hoover. We can all but guarantee no competition for Hoover if we get to TOE first. We can all but guarantee getting TOE if we stop the cascade from US. Let's use this army to shave 4 turns off of US, and make sure we build it before anyone else gets scientific method. How many turns will it take to get that army to PDX?

Hehe. I feel pretty stupid now. What world was I in?

Wishful thinking, I guess. Would have been very cool if we could do it that way...

This is what happens when they actually make me work at work.

 

[Cyc]

You guys are amazing. This is exactly the kind of brain-storming we need, not only in the wonder building dept. but in other areas as well.
I like the US and Hoover in PDX plan, and I also think transporting the immortal army to the Capital to help with the coal plant is excellent. Then Fox Nest could knock out the ToE. By the way the coal plants will inspire me to make more calls for sanitation. Hospitals will be needed to cover the rise in illness.
Overall, it sounds like you've got a good plan ironed out.

 

[Rain]

Is there a consensus of opinion here on a proposed plan?

 

[donsig]

I think the general consensus so far is to build universal suffrage and Hoover dam in PDX and theory of evolution in Fox Nest. Pherris will build the military academy. Fox Next will complete the factory.

There are suggestions to build a coal plant in Fox nest and use gold and/or our immortal army to hurry it along. There is a suggestion to switch Pherris to factory and then restart the academy. No consensus and anything in this paragraph yet. We really need governor approval of any build queue changes as well as a citizen discussion and/or poll to disband our army.

 

[Rain]

I have posted a poll regarding the disbanding issue. It is generally stated as this discussion is incomplete. It doesnt seem to warrant a separate discussion as this discussion seems to contain the relevant information and splitting it would not seem helpful.