Wonder Question...

[Vegasgustan]

Okay everybody...I usually play on Regent or Monarch and I like to play with more islands and ocean than land. I pose this question...

Should one build the Great Lighthouse to cut down on the suicide galleys?

I read the article of Wonder Addiction and I must agree about the Great Library, but I think that the Great Lighthouse and perhaps the Pyramids are really helpful.

What do YOU think?

 

[Rosschild]

For whatever it's worth, here's what I think:

You are right in saying that the Great Lighthouse and perhaps the Pyramids are useful. But as the article you mentioned points out, when they become a crutch, you're slowing down your own improvement. What happens if, for example, you are beaten to the Great Lighthouse? Is your entire gameplan sunk? My personal opinion is that, if I find myself saying that a particular Wonder is essential to my game, I intentionally avoid building that Wonder until I learn to play without it (same idea goes for playing Civs of different traits etc.). I find that it makes me a stronger player in the long run.

Of course, all this is only true if your intention is to improve your game. If you're content with your abilities and are having fun, the keep doing what you're doing and enjoy the game however you like.

 

[Vegasgustan]

Thanks for your thoughts...

Who is next?

What about suicide galleys?

 

[citizen001]

I hate to say this but I still sense the aroma of wonder addiction on you. try playing a couple completely wonderless games and you'll find that by not building wonders you can boom in other areas (such as military) and you'll eventually come to conquer wonders other civs build.

 

[Tomoyo]

The Lighthouse is one of the wonders that is easy to build when you don't want it and hard to build when you need it. Therefore, don't build it. It does cut down on the suicide galleys, but think: 300 shields = 10 galleys.

 

[Beamup]

The Great Lighthouse is, IMO, not worth building in order to cut down on suicide galleys for the reason Tomoyo just pointed out - it's just not cost-effective that way until it's saved more than 10 galleys from sinking... which it's highly unlikely to manage.

The time the Lighthouse is valuable, I'd say, is when it's being used mainly for the increased speed. A 33% increase in speed is (VERY roughly) equivalent to a 33% increase in number of ships in some ways. So, if you are in a situation where you're using a large number of galleys on ferry duty, the Lighthouse just might increase ferry efficiency enough to be worthwhile. Or it can speed up exploration and contact - unfortunately the benefit of this is less readily quantifable.

But it's never a must-have. Like every other wonder, it's ALWAYS a tradeoff on where the shields will be most useful. And it makes it to "more useful than extra units" less often than most IMX.

One other thing I'll mention - the Lighthouse doesn't have anything like the tendency of the Library or a few others to become a crutch IMO. Its benefit is always just an increase in efficiency, not something that will alter the way you play the game.

 

[Offa]

On some maps, the lighthouse really is very important, especially low difficulty (ie slow tech) island maps where it permits safe travel to other continents. It can trim centuries off the conquest time by avoiding the need for navigation. In addition by preventing the AI from using it you can gain an enormous trading benefit.

 

[Vegasgustan]

I am not really addicted to Wonders. I did play a complete Wonderless game and I found it to be a better challenge, but a little less "fun". I have to agree with Tomoyo about the shield difference, that does make sense. The time I really love to use the GL is when I am playing that "Warlust" scenario that comes with the game. It really changes things quickly. Thanks everbody.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

The great lighthouse is often a wonder that is crucial to early (gotm) victories.
Unlike the Pyramids which needs to be started in your second city if you want to have a chance to it, you can start building it a bit later if the gotm is of moderate difficulty level.

I think on archipellago emperor or below it is good to build it, but not too early. You can start it with your 5th or 6th city or so (but try making it not 5th or 6th on corruption rank). Certainly if this is also the wonder that can activate your golden age. You can aim for it to be ready just when you became republic.

I think before the Hoover dam, the lighthouse is the only wonder that can be worth building.
Any other wonder is only worth being rushed by leaders. (Leo's most importantly)
Great library, Pyramids and TOA are wonders that should be captured.

Of course, that is when going for conquest or domination. Cultural victories are a different issue.

 

[Goosbar]

i think, if your playing on islands, that the pyramids ad some other wonders are, like he said, to be captured. the pyramids for instance, put a granary in every city on the same continent, or landmass. so if you build it in a city on an island with only three other cities, whats the point? some dont even produce that much culture

 

[Randy]

I have to say WackenOpenAir nailed it. The only games I go for a wonder are some GOTMs but not all. And if I don't get it I have a back up plan in place.

If I'm way ahead of all other AI I may build one just so an AI won't get it. (regent or lower).

If I get a leader then yes I will build a wonder just to use the leader.

Now the forbiden palace (small wonder) is different If I have to I will build it. I would rather use a leader but some games they are rare.

 

[Hakim]

I used to dismiss the lighthouse until the day I was beaten to another wonder and had to build it. Now it's my favourite and I almost restart the game if I can't get it. I usually play large continent maps with 12 civs on PTW. I also use the 0-research strategy from the first turn, buying techs from other civs instead of researching them myself.

Not only do the ships get another movement point, The Lighthouse also enables them to stay safely on sea squares. This brings benefits such as:
-instead of going 1 square out from coast and back, you can begin at a sea square, go 2 squares into the ocean and back.
-when your ships are on sea squares, they will not be attacked by barbarian galleys, and probably not by enemy ships either (never happened to me).
- you will get a larger world and territory maps that can be used for trading
- you will get to the small islands not adjacent to the coast first and can settle them first.
- a corrupt city on a remote arctic island wont produce much, but it makes your empire larger. Your ROP deals will be better and think about how many ROP deals you will sign (and renegotiate) with 12 civs from that point to the end of the game. That's a major effect.
- all the arctic islands will ensure you get oil later on, and other resources as well.
- you might reach the other continent first (I usually get 2 continents) and now you can soon trade contacts with 5-6 civs unknown to your neighbours.

 

[Vegasgustan]

I used to dismiss the lighthouse until the day I was beaten to another wonder and had to build it. Now it's my favourite and I almost restart the game if I can't get it. I usually play large continent maps with 12 civs on PTW. I also use the 0-research strategy from the first turn, buying techs from other civs instead of researching them myself.

Not only do the ships get another movement point, The Lighthouse also enables them to stay safely on sea squares. This brings benefits such as:
-instead of going 1 square out from coast and back, you can begin at a sea square, go 2 squares into the ocean and back.
-when your ships are on sea squares, they will not be attacked by barbarian galleys, and probably not by enemy ships either (never happened to me).
- you will get a larger world and territory maps that can be used for trading
- you will get to the small islands not adjacent to the coast first and can settle them first.
- a corrupt city on a remote arctic island wont produce much, but it makes your empire larger. Your ROP deals will be better and think about how many ROP deals you will sign (and renegotiate) with 12 civs from that point to the end of the game. That's a major effect.
- all the arctic islands will ensure you get oil later on, and other resources as well.
- you might reach the other continent first (I usually get 2 continents) and now you can soon trade contacts with 5-6 civs unknown to your neighbours.

And the all the little children say Amen!

"Amen"!