Wondering about performance with different degrees of upgrading

[Selsaral]

I am currently playing Civ4 on a p3 1 gig with a geforce4 4200. It runs but extremely slowly.

Right now I am about to upgrade to a new machine, an athlon64 3200 with 1 gig of RAM and a new monitor (Dell 2005fpw).

Since civ4 is the only game I play right now, I am thinking of keeping my geforce4 4200 because as far as I know it's entirely adequate to run civ4 (especially if the CPU is plenty fast).

Am I right about this? Will a geforce4 be plenty fast? Would a new card like a geforce6600 be a whole lot faster at running civ4? Further the monitor I am buying is a widescreen LCD 20.1", and its native resolution is 1680X1050. Will a geforce4 4200 be fast enough to run Civ4 quickly at that res?

Thanks for any advice anyone can give.

 

[EmperorQuaestor]

The monitor is irrelevant. Your card is too old. Put a 6800gt in that and you will be good.

 

[Kurbads]

Well, I do have 4200. no problems at all. sure i want better and so on, game also has smaller resolution then my 1600/1200 desktop - dont know exactly, its not important for me in CIV game, like in some TW battle would be. as You see - I havnt looked at taht at all! can be flustrating for your LCD who loves native resolutions, I went for uber CRT a year ago on purpose not to suffer these problems.

I also have poor CPU - 1.8Ghz, so Your AMD will rock. (well, my memory - HDD solution is bit above best)

I think You dont need new VGA card. Your problem can be however AGP vs PCIExpress 16 slot problem - You 4200 needs AGP slot, while if You want upgrade later, You will need PCI-E slot. So my advice, that You never asked - look for veried motherboard that has both AGP and PCI-E. I saw one yesterday when looking for new VGA card (I play this TW sometimes)

as for VGA card - currently there are new approach - dual chip nvidia 7800 out, almost every user can make it work (almost). ATI must so something more extra in short time not to loose market at all, I talked to product managers of biggest distributors around, they try not to stock high end VGAs currently, as the new dualchip technology and ATIs market position must lead to price/performance jump really soon. (JUST MY IDEA. can be wrong, I have ideas all the time)

So I posponed new VGA card purchase for another month or so.

 

[sfuller]

You will need a new motherboard with your new processor. I am worried that you didn't mention anything about it because you are switching entire platforms. This has second and third order effects that will frustrate the heck out of you if you order the parts and have the sum of nothing when you get them.

Do not get a AGP/PCIe motherboard. There are only a few and they are notoriously unstable.

What I would say is get a nforce4 motherboard (I'd reccomend the ASUS - non sli) and a dual core a64x2 3800+, along with a new graphics card, at least a 6600 with 256mb of ram. I built a system with these major components last week and it's a dream for the price.

You can spend the dough now or paint yourself in a corner (with AGP) and have to spend twice as much six months from now. If you're not going to heed my advice because it's too expensive, then short yourself on the cpu by going single core, but stay socket 939 at least. If you continue to wait out for the newest technology (socket m2 etc) you'll never get anything, but I'll tell you that the nForce4 is a mature and stable solution which is widely regarded as the best availible for gaming now and a solid investment for the next two-three years at least!

And I would cut back on your monitor. That thing is a beast and to power any 3D game properly you'll need a very good video card. I have watercooled, overclocked x2 4200+ and 7800GTX and to drive my 2001FP maxed out...wow, it takes alot of horsepower, I should probably have another 7800GTX in SLI to play Call of Duty 2 @ 1600x1200. I know civ doesn't tax the graphics card like FEAR or whatever, but maybe you should go for a nice 19" and put the money into the box itself. You'll be looking through the monitor, I get it, but...if you don't have the machine to back it up...well...

 

[Selsaral]

Thanks guys.

I brought up the monitor because its native resolution is quite detailed and much higher than what I run now, and usually higher resolutions require a faster computer and/or graphics card. I run Civ4 in 1024X768 right now.

I am of course getting a new mobo. If I decide to stay with my geforce4 4200 right now I can get a socket 939 nforce3 250 mobo with an AGP slot. True, I lose the upgradeability of PCi-X, but there's plenty of better AGP cards that I could upgrade to in the future. True, the AGP cards are more expensive but not by a whole lot, and in a year or so when I expect to get a new graphics card they will be dirt cheap on ebay.

Right now the ONLY game I play is civ4. I do a lot of browsing etc otherwise, but that's it for games. That's why I want to pinch pennies and not spend money on a graphics card. The last graphics game I played was Tribes2. So as you see the only app I need to worry about is civ4.

When I come accross a new game I need I can just get a new graphics card then.

 

[Selsaral]

What I would say is get a nforce4 motherboard (I'd reccomend the ASUS - non sli) and a dual core a64x2 3800+, along with a new graphics card, at least a 6600 with 256mb of ram. I built a system with these major components last week and it's a dream for the price.

Yeah. Honestly, this is out of my price range. I have a case, power supply, CD ROM drive, hard drive, cables etc. So 160$ for the processor, 80$ for the mobo, 80$ for a gig of RAM and I can walk away with a huge upgrade (if my geforce4 4200 is enough for civ4).

I'm pinching pennies here...so I can afford that kickass monitor. I have little worry about running modern games (except Civ4!). So if Civ4 runs great at that native resolution on an athlon64 3200 and a geforce4 4200, I'll be a happy and rich camper!

 

[sfuller]

Fair enough. Maybe you should consider a better AGP graphics card solution, you can pick up a 9600xt for fairly cheap and that'll help quite a bit.

 

[Selsaral]

Yeah that's certainly an option. If I do this half upgrade thing, there's no doubt my graphics card will be by far the limiting factor in my machine and ripe for replacement. I am trying to decide just how cheap I am, and what I can get away with.

The self-control it took to pay bills instead of buy a new computer the day civ4 came out was more than I have ever used in my entire life teehee.

 

[romelus]

you'd want a new vid card. i also have gforce 4 ti4200, it's in an amd xp 1.8 ghz, 1.5 gb ram box. civ 4 runs at the minimum graphics options, not extremely slowly, but certainly slowly enough that if you try to notice the lag, you will. and i'm only running at 1024x768. i am quite sure that the vid card is the bottleneck, and you will have a very very hard time running civ 4 at high resolution with ti4200. don't be confused by the game's official minimum card requirement, it is a joke

if civ4 is of any importance to you. trust me and get a better vid card, even if you might have to get a lesser monitor. or find a couple hundred bucks somewhere somehow

 

[EmperorQuaestor]

Do yourself a favor. Don't buy into the past. AGP is dying/dead. Go for the future, PCIe.

I run an athlon 3000 (1.8ghz), win2k, 1 G ram, but my PCIe 6600gt (single, not sli) runs everything maxed with total smoothness.

If you have to save a few months to do it right, then save. Otherwise in a few months you are facing all that again anyway.

 

[Zydor]

"I am buying is a widescreen LCD 20.1", and its native resolution is 1680X1050. Will a geforce4 4200 be fast enough to run Civ4 quickly at that res?"

In a word - no

1600 x 1200 at hi res AA on etc etc will bring many current cards to their knees, still run, just, but they gotta work at it with reduced eye candy in many cases. A geforce4 4200 will not even come close, it will not run at that resolution with 3D games. Your additional factor is the wide screen res of 1680X1050, I dont believe the 4200 supports that widescreen format in theory, let alone the real world power needed to fling it on screen.

If you are desparate to upgrade now, ditch the wide screen, get a 19" CRT (great value prices now, give aways almost),that will give you head room on the budget to go for a PCI-e board - maybe, look at figures carefully as you on a tight budget.

In post 6 you're nearly there re budget, as mentioned above, save a wee bit more then go for it, but on a PCI-e board, no widescreen & a 6600gt 128mb.

If you buy the widescreen with a 4200 you will be staring at a virtually blank screen at 1680 x 1050. Dropping down to non widescreen resolutions on a widescreen monitor just to get the game to run (and then slowly) is not a pretty sight when you reflect what you would have just paid for it.

Regards
Zy

 

[logical_psycho]

Thanks guys.

I brought up the monitor because its native resolution is quite detailed and much higher than what I run now, and usually higher resolutions require a faster computer and/or graphics card. I run Civ4 in 1024X768 right now.

I am of course getting a new mobo. If I decide to stay with my geforce4 4200 right now I can get a socket 939 nforce3 250 mobo with an AGP slot. True, I lose the upgradeability of PCi-X, but there's plenty of better AGP cards that I could upgrade to in the future. True, the AGP cards are more expensive but not by a whole lot, and in a year or so when I expect to get a new graphics card they will be dirt cheap on ebay.

Right now the ONLY game I play is civ4. I do a lot of browsing etc otherwise, but that's it for games. That's why I want to pinch pennies and not spend money on a graphics card. The last graphics game I played was Tribes2. So as you see the only app I need to worry about is civ4.

When I come accross a new game I need I can just get a new graphics card then.

You need one with PCI-E, not AGP or PCI-X... PCI-X is practically old PCI... which is crap for video cards. I wouldn't buy a new system with AGP now. You could decide to use the Ti4200 you have, it will run this game fine... but future games could be a problem. AGP seriously limits your upgradability. The only option you'd have is the 7800GS AGP (if I'm correct) that was just recently released. If you only plan on playing CivIV for the upcoming 3 or 4 years, it might be an option, otherwise it isn't.

 

[LFaWolf]

That's like putting a having a Ferrari with a Civic engine. You are wasting all the CPU power. I gave mine T4400 away. Buy a $100 6600 and you are better off.

 

[Captain Pugwash]

Screen resolution does matter. There are more pixels to handle which means more horsepower to do it. Also, some cards might not support 1680x1050 period. Be careful otherwise it just wont work at all. Dont' take a sword to a gun battle

 

[Selsaral]

Yeah it sounds like I could get away with my geforce4 in normal resolutions, but it will be a little rough with the widescreen resolution. The geforce DOES natively support the widescreen resolution so I am good to go there.

It runs so ridiculously slow right now that I am pretty sure any improvement would be nice. But it sounds like the cheapness of avoiding buying a new video card right now (150$ basically) may not be worth civ4 performance and future upgradeability.

Part of the problem is that because I don't play ANY other games right now, I feel like I am wasting money on a graphics card. If I find a new game to play in a year or so, the video card I buy now will be obsolete then. I was thinking it could be prudent to wait.

Anyways, thanks again for the advice, I will continue to ponder and shop.

 

[Reignking]

I'm upgrading my machine right now, as well. I've got an ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 coming in today -- both AGP and PCI Express. And a 6600GT has been sitting around waiting for it...I got an LCD monitor for only $200 from TigerDirect a few months ago, which is 1280x1024. Civ 4 ran fine at that resolution -- on my 866mhz/GEForce2.

 

[nin9abadga]

don't forget though that your pc is only as fast as your slowest component. i had a xp 3200+ with ddr400 dual channel ram and an at x800xt (agp) and with that processor it was fast (ut 2004 maxed out for e.g) but the wonder movies were choppy and slow in civ4, although performance was ok in general.

i upgraded the processor to an amd 64 4000+ around christmas and it flies now. i run it at 1680 x 1050 with no problems at all.

so in short, i would buy the best you can afford, make yourself as future proof as possible.

nin9abadga