Workers - Automate or no?

and besides, the only city that is half decent or better is the capital, all other cities just plain suck, in any era. i could play a one city challenge and itll be better.

This is just not true at all. The capital is the only "half decent" city? No offense, but I have only played this five times and I know better than this. You should really look into making the decisions on city building for yourself in the future so you can learn how to make cities be more productive. I am not even referring to advanced topics that get thrown around on these forums without a second thought. I am talking about the bare basics to making an efficient civilization which has multiple highly productive and critical cities.

You may want to read over the beginner's guide PDF. I found it amazing.
 
ok for example at the end of a noble space race game Constantinople had 500 normal production points from many factors including great engineers. Ankara has only 50 production points. i usually ended up rushbuying buildings..

(i modded many aspects of the Byzantine Empire including the city lists.)
 
That may well be in that game. Running Bearacracy. Although I must admit, being able to build an ICBM in 2 turns (1 if heroic epic is in there) on marathon is freakin all-star impressive.

However, if this is the case you can throw this back into your feeling that city specialization isn't important.

Mathalamus said:
i dotn see the need for speciailization. why specialist at all? if.. say the AI gets smart enough aand captures every production and military cities what do you have left? youd have to change your GP and cottage cities into military powerhouses and that takes time. when your facing Monty, you don't have time, you already lost.

i generally let my workers do whatever the hell they want. and build every building, thus if even my capital ( always the core research, financial and production city) is captured and/or razed i can still carry on without changing a thing. usually i set up my second city to be the second most productive, etc city.
By these guidelines Bearaucracy is the only civic that aids your playstye. And IMO that civic will aid anyone's playstyle for a good length of the game. I have a hard time coming out of it once I am in it. Even if I am spiritual.

I have on many occassions had cities better than my captial in a given area. It is hard to rival my capital in it's specialty but I have had cities do this and surpass it. Usually in every game I end up with 6-10 cities that are just as good if not better than my capital. Using specialization helps quite a bit and at times I feel I am taking too long getting all the building I need in there. Most of my cities in a domination game are playing "catch up" for most if not all of the game. Getting a forge, factory then power and granary (not always in that order) are usually my prime focuses early on. Then add in courthouse and health and happy buildings and its like a non-stop waiting list before they can do what they are suppose to do (provided I plan to use this city for production). Getting liraries and sch can be a bit easier and quicker. But there is still a long wait involved either way until the city is "ready to go".

The problem is "If Monty captures all your military and production cities" you are still screwed even under your system.

ok for example at the end of a noble space race game Constantinople had 500 normal production points from many factors including great engineers. Ankara has only 50 production points. i usually ended up rushbuying buildings..
If COnstantinople gets captured, you are in a world f hurt because suddenly your best production city has only 75 production under Beuraucracy. All your engineers are captured. It seems to me you specialize your capital and you don't specialize your other cities or not for production anyways. The only way you can get 500 hammers in your capital is to specialize hammer output at the cost of science and gold. I don't believe a city that pulls in 500 hammers a turn is also the leader in science and gold. And if it is the case, your other cities are being badly neglected. And badly is an understatement.
 
im playing a game right now. so far i ahve 4 cities at 1120 BC (at marathon speed) 9 workers, all in groups of 3, not automated, 2 archers per city, 80% research. pretty good for now.

well the start was crappy. oops. i had gold, cows and spice within the BFC. im making the capital to be mostly farms and mines.

im not organized enough to manually manage the workers, the improvements and roads are slapdash.

(10 minutes later)

*sigh* suieman of the Otto-fag Empire declared war, sent a stack of doom at Jerusalem, and was quickly defeated by three archers... glad to know i built all those archers for this.

(20 minutes later)
ok im clearly last in score and there's nothing i can do. i think i should quit that game and go back to my strategy which worked.
 
Score doesn't mean anything. I play on Monarch and and thinking of trying my luck at moving up to Emporer. And I am always at the lower end of the score list by the middle ages. Don't let score dictate how you are doing as I have won being like 9th/15th place in score before. Pretty much everyone below me got their ass beat by someones army and never recovered. Score is from what I can tell based on a mixture of land size, wonders, and techs. If you have no wonders and an AI has 2 or 3 around your size, others are REXing, etc score is going to fluctuate. It doesn't really reflect how well you are doing in the game accurately. Much like the power chart. Usually someone DOW's me, their power bar is like a mounatin and mine more like a hill or a flatland on the graph. Then usually you will see their mountain just plummet. The information on this game is more fickle than solid.

Savegame? I don't see how you are in last place with 4 cities by 1120 BC and 8 archers and 9 workers at 80% science. That is alot of commerce. Exactly how many gold veins were in your BFC? 2 can't even provide that kind of cashflow if all you are using is farms and mines. There is information being left out somewhere.
 
im playing a game right now. so far i ahve 4 cities at 1120 BC (at marathon speed) 9 workers, all in groups of 3, not automated, 2 archers per city, 80% research. pretty good for now.

well the start was crappy. oops. i had gold, cows and spice within the BFC. im making the capital to be mostly farms and mines.

im not organized enough to manually manage the workers, the improvements and roads are slapdash.

(10 minutes later)

*sigh* suieman of the Otto-fag Empire declared war, sent a stack of doom at Jerusalem, and was quickly defeated by three archers... glad to know i built all those archers for this.

(20 minutes later)
ok im clearly last in score and there's nothing i can do. i think i should quit that game and go back to my strategy which worked.

9 does not equal 4*1.5.

There is no reason you need 2 archers in EVERY city unless you're using them for monarchy :).

There is no reason sully should declare on you early unless bribed by someone more aggressive (get him to pleased).

There is absolutely no reason city specialization should hamper your expansion, but overbuilding workers and infra will definitely hamper your expansion. though 4 cities by then isn't that bad anyhow, you can probably get 8+ by 1 AD on marathon that way.

Most rookies get tripped up on tech and "what to build choices", with improvement specialization also being pretty common. If you screw up your tech/diplo/building choices, you aren't going to do well no matter what.
 
Here is a map of my current game. The B.C.s are rapping up and I have 6 cities and here is a list of all my units. I am actually debating on making the other 3 workers I should have as They won't have much to do now until Civil service. I probably will around my discovery of calendar. (What I plan to research after Math) City C has been outproducing my capital all game. City E and B will probably rival my capital in either science and/or GPT by late medieval. F is a junk city just to block japan - more strategic location than anything. Although it has corn already and will have clams once my borders pop again. (Thank you Madrassa) D is similar but both will serve as decent production cities eventually.

My capital and city B both have a gems resource. IN ~500BC I founded city D as the last of these 6 as Mongolia cut me off early. My score was second from the bottom at this time. I finished alphabet 2 turns later and traded it to Freddy for IW and Meditation and jumped up to 2nd place in score. Then I researched priesthood and am now trying to get calander as I have 3 resources in my borders that can give me a +4 :) in all cities on my continent. If I can figure out why I can't trade resources with Tokugawa I could get +5 :) and make all these cities size 10s. I am also getting ready to invade mongolia with swords once my central production city gets done building its granary. He is on the sliver of land to my SW.

Does anyone know why I may not be able to trade gems for gold to tokugawa? All but 1 of my cities has a trade route with him due to open borders. I have sailing - I don't know if he does. He has at least 2, maybe 3 sources of gold and I cannot even see his resources, they are not redded out - they just arent there in the trade screen.

But here is a game where I had 6 cities by 500 BC and I was 2nd to last place on Monarch. One tech and tech trade and boom, second place. ONe thing I don't get what you are trying to say here is you say:
" 9 workers, all in groups of 3, not automated"
Then say:
"im not organized enough to manually manage the workers, the improvements and roads are slapdash."

I am not trying to tell you how to play civ just suggesting you try out specialization as I think if you got the hang of it I think you would enjoy alot of strategic elements the game has to offer. None of us picked up civ and just knew how to specialize properly. On the contrary all previous incarnations of civ encouraged the build everything motto. For the first year this game came out all kinds of discussion was going on over the best way to specialize in the new system. It takes trial and error and it helps to see what paths other people take on this to mold a style of your own. You can't be like "I'll try this specialization tactics thingy" then come back the next day and say "thanks for that, I beat diety last night." ;)

An important point me in team mentioned that was alluding me was that you have to center your entire strategy around your cities and what each one is in need of to find out what is important here and there overall. diplo plays in the grande strategy above specialization really moreso that the cities themselves. Although it does play a role there too. Its all about making your cities more lucrative in what they do. Tech and building choices (and improvements) effect these directly.

MeInTeam said:
Most rookies get tripped up on tech and "what to build choices", with improvement specialization also being pretty common. If you screw up your tech/diplo/building choices, you aren't going to do well no matter what.
 

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well to be fair i had almost no gold ( due to me running science at 80%) and i got fudealism but most of my military is still archers. i was practically immune from land warfare due to mansas smart descion to suirroud my territory, yes hes friendly.

but others were well into there Renaissance or even industrial age. and i was barely in medieval.

i dont have the save game cause i ddint save.. oh well.

lesson learned: use a good start, not a crappy one.
 
well to be fair i had almost no gold ( due to me running science at 80%) and i got fudealism but most of my military is still archers. i was practically immune from land warfare due to mansas smart descion to suirroud my territory, yes hes friendly.
Me and Mansa wouldn't have been friendly at all by the sounds of this. Usually my neighbors that touch my borders at the beginning of the game are enemies. I am lanning to trade with Toku to my north as I fight mongolia. But then I plan to turn on him if something better does not arise. I would rather own the land near my capital than land further out. So I will probably fight him. China and Germany are to my west just north of Mongolia so I may end up going over there instead if it suits me nd just throw the Forbidden Palace over in the west somewhere. I would like to win diplomatically or culturally this game because I haven't won either of those for a while. But if things go well enough here, I may get tempted to take up another domination.

but others were well into there Renaissance or even industrial age. and i was barely in medieval.
Hehe, yeah I've been there. Usually this is a case of improper expansion. Whether it is overexpansion or underexpansion - it's all relative to your neighbors and the surrounding terrain.

lesson learned: use a good start, not a crappy one.
I wouldn't even say that neccessarily. If it helps you, by all means. BUt I assure you that on noble a "bad start" is extremely rare.
 
i played a second game, i fared a lot better.. but.. well ill just post the save game here and let you be the judge on how screwed i am.

( vanilla BTS 3.19, as the Byzantine Empire)
 

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i played a second game, i fared a lot better.. but.. well ill just post the save game here and let you be the judge on how screwed i am.

( vanilla BTS 3.19, as the Byzantine Empire)

LOL. I will have a look at it tonight when I get home. I am about to head that way actually. I will post back tomorrow afternoon.
 
Hmm. I couldn't get the game to load. I know you said you modded city names and such... which I don't think would cause it to crash. I know things in my game are modded as well. It has 5 views though, so I wonder if anyone else got it to run.

EDIT: ON a not so fun side note, as I was gearing up to invade mongolia, he founded Islam in the city directly west of me next to my borders. But the city is placed very crappy. As was debating if I should keep it or burn it, Toku declared war on me! So I actually end up going to war with Toku instead while Genghis took full advantage of my war and was somehow teching like mad. I was planning to end the war with Toku just as CHina declares on me and brings a stack of 10 CR2 swords and 2 combat (1 shock) axes into my borders. AT which time my largest army in the field was 5 units. 3 CR2 swords, 1 CR3, and a C2 Medic spear. I have since been fighting over city F having it change all kinds of hands between us.
 
I have my 10 second rule for workers. If I can't find something obvious for a worker to do in 10 seconds, it goes to automation. That will mean I have covered all resources I can see, and all improvements I know I want. At that point the worker can wander and waste time and build extra roads, whatever. I do reclaim control of all workers when Railroad comes around. After I have built rail on all places where it gives +1 hammer and done a few long rail lines from edge to edge of my borders, the workers can go back to their mindless routine. If something happens to change things: an event destroys an improvement, a city culture flips, etc, then I grab some workers and manually move them until the 10 second rule kicks in again.
 
i dotn see the need for speciailization. why specialist at all? if.. say the AI gets smart enough aand captures every production and military cities what do you have left? youd have to change your GP and cottage cities into military powerhouses and that takes time.
and build every building, thus if even my capital ( always the core research, financial and production city) is captured and/or razed i can still carry on without changing a thing. usually i set up my second city to be the second most productive, etc city.
It sounds to me that your game isn't all that stable, yet. Especially when you say something like this:
and besides, the only city that is half decent or better is the capital, all other cities just plain suck, in any era.
The reason your cities suck is because you don't specialize them.

The principle is quite simple: Cities have the potential to benefit your Civ in different ways. The first one is coastal, the second one is ripe with :food: resources, the third one is mostly hills and forests, and the fourth one has bonuses for both :gold: and :hammers:. For an example. Surely there are more or less efficient ways of managing your resources and your population?

The coastal city would focus on :commerce:, the second one could be used to run specialists (a good way to create :gp:, which is a good idea in itself), the third one is a solid weapons forge and the fourth could be a combination of money and production (perhaps for building Wonders). Building :hammers: buildings in the coastal city would be less efficient than building :commerce: buildings. And building :gold: buildings would be most useful in the first and the fourth city. If you build your units in the third city you don't need to build Barracks and Stables in the other ones. An so on.

It doesn't, of course, hurt to have all buildings in all cities but its wasteful when you could only build say 1/3 the number of available buildings in any given city and only perhaps lose 1/10 of the potential benefits. The rest of all that production could go into building World Wonders - and units. That way you're not constantly under the threat of imminent destruction by warmongering rivals.

Sure, eventually you would wanna build all the :hammers: and :gold: buildings in all of your cities (to keep up with costs and not to be outproduced by your enemies), but only after you've taken care of the priorities. At the very least, you should build all the buildings in the order that they do the most good to the city in question.

You do however have a point in building a more solid empire, where no city is more valuable than another. But this could just as easily count for the rest of your empire, aside from your core cities.

Personally I tend to focus on a few heavily specialized cities for my :science:, maybe one dedicated :gold: city and a handful of :hammers: cities to get out the units. The rest of my empire is there mostly to cover territory and grab resources. These cities tend not to be as important or useful, and end up being either dedicated :hammers: cities or supplemental :gold: suppliers. Because by that point I will be needing both units and cash to maintain my empire... There is little point in, say, building the more expensive :science: buildings in these cities, as all of them wouldn't amount to even one of the specialized :science: cities (with Academies and specialists).
 
i try to have my first city the jack of all trades.

and.. i dont particularly like inland cities so i make those coastal too.
 
i dont particularly like inland cities so i make those coastal too.

Coastal receives some nice trade routes and a few additional positives, however an inland city with the ability to work most or all of its tiles is a far more powerful city. I may often move my capital to and inland city during bureaucracy if its working mainly cottaged tiles and some mines.

If you're not a Financial leader, their is very little benefit having many coastal tiles, on the whole.
 
Deals involving gold require a side to have currency.
Actually, I was reffering to the resource. He had 2 veins of gold, I had 2 gems and was wanting to resource trade. But for some reason my gems and copper were on the list but none of his resources were.
 
Actually, I was reffering to the resource. He had 2 veins of gold, I had 2 gems and was wanting to resource trade. But for some reason my gems and copper were on the list but none of his resources were.

Did you have sight of his cities?
 
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