World History Mod development thread

[kevinman4404]

Hmm... I've done a lot of research on meso/andes civs and my sources indicate that either they were most likely two seperate states (Huari splitting off from Tiwanaku) and acknlowedge the possibility that they were actually one empire (perhaps with dual capitals). But it definitely managed to get across that Tiwanaku was the more dominant state.

If you trust in your source, please provide it and I'll look into it; we have a few options, personally I like the idea of combining them

Could you explain the "Tiwanaku" UU? I have never heard anything about the military of either Huari or Tiwanaku; did the word reference a type of soldier?

Also, just to complicate things a bit more, ball courts were used throughout mesoamerica, southern native states and the caribbean. So they will wind up being a building, not a UB. Also, the Incan terrace is now an improvement, it will just be a farm you can put on a hill with a better graphic.

Currently, I am in need of the following:
-Maya UB
-Tarascan UB
-Teotihuacan UB (unless there was more than one sun temple, it should instead be a wonder should it not?)

Also note that buildings are really easy to model (no animations, yay) and if art does not exist that is ok!

I think I overlooked those leaderheads before (I have civ gold 5), but now that I think of it they should be fine! The first one would work fine for Tarascan

thanks for your help!
EDIT: sorry for the incessant editing! I must make things so confusing haha

 

[Krug]

Hmm... I've done a lot of research on meso/andes civs and my sources indicate that either they were most likely two seperate states (Huari splitting off from Tiwanaku) and acknlowedge the possibility that they were actually one empire (perhaps with dual capitals). But it definitely managed to get across that Tiwanaku was the more dominant state.

If you trust in your source, please provide it and I'll look into it; we have a few options, personally I like the idea of combining them

Could you explain the "Tiwanaku" UU? I have never heard anything about the military of either Huari or Tiwanaku; did the word reference a type of soldier?

Also, just to complicate things a bit more, ball courts were used throughout mesoamerica, southern native states and the caribbean. So they will wind up being a building, not a UB. Also, the Incan terrace is now an improvement, it will just be a farm you can put on a hill with a better graphic.

Currently, I am in need of the following:
-Maya UB
-Tarascan UB
-Teotihuacan UB (unless there was more than one sun temple, it should instead be a wonder should it not?)

Also note that buildings are really easy to model (no animations, yay) and if art does not exist that is ok!

I think I overlooked those leaderheads before (I have civ gold 5), but now that I think of it they should be fine! The first one would work fine for Tarascan

thanks for your help!
EDIT: sorry for the incessant editing! I must make things so confusing haha

Well, from what I've seen I haven't had much evidence to say one or the other was very dominant. I made the judgement myself that Huari was the Dominant one due to the fact that it's always sourced as the Huari Empire, and the Tiwanaku are nowhere to be seen in sources for the Huari. I'm thinking to go with one empire as Huari diffused off of Tiwanaku and they must have had similar cultures in at least some respects. I say one empire, but if there is any argument, just make both minor nations.

I have not techincally found anything on the Military of either empire, but, from what I gathered, the Moche who preceded and probably influenced both built fortifications around their cities. This must have meant that they had a standing army of some sort, probably composing of Spearmen. The name is just to show the two nations are combined. Though a lot of it was just speculation on my part.

I can get the Maya and Tarascan UB hopefully tomorrow. As for the Sun temple as a UB, I gave it a lot of thought as to it being a wonder as a well. But my reasoning is, if Teotihuaca was a city-state, then that means the culture in control only owned that city. So couldn't it be assumed that if the culture in charge controlled more cities, that other (Albeit Lesser) sun pyramids would have been built?

 

[kevinman4404]

ha! an interesting point. Well, they were a huge cultural expanse, and in all the places they conquered or influenced they never popped up. But if they had made new cities, who knows? Let's leave that one for now

OK, let's combine then

The Tiwanaku/Huari UU is kind of vague; I have no idea how I would make it different from the normal spearman. I will try to help us fine something better!

thanks for the help!
Kevin

edit: sorry- also carib UB. Miskito UB might like a revision- chocolate plantation is an improvement, doesn't really replace anything, anyways, the least we can do is think of a slightly different name

 

[Krug]

Alrighty-
Mayan UB: Kukulkan (Replaces Obvservatory, Adds an additional +2 Culture to the Science boost)
Carib UB: Cohoba Hut (Replaces Courthouse, 100 Hammers as opposed to 120 for the cost)
Miskito UB: Turtle Fishery (Replaces Market, Adds +2 Food)
Tarascan UB: Yacata (Replaces Monument, adds +1 )

 

[kevinman4404]

Perfect Krug! Thanks! I will soon get to work on these!
let's call off the search on a Huari/Tiwanaku UU.
I shall use Moche Predator and Moche Warrior Priest. While the Moche did not transform into the Huari/Tiwanaku culture, it was a culture dominated over by the Huari, so they can be mercenary-ish UUs. I have used a similar tactic for a couple other civs (not an ideal tactic but we have no other option... Tiwanakau practically never even fought)

I successfully rewrote (simpler) code for rise and fall, and everything is now working perfectly! (before there were problems with the birth of some civs). It's neat to see 6 civs fit into the small space (at the same time!) that is Southeast Mexico and convince eachother to go to war, ally, vassal, etc. Though they will obviously more spread out time-wise when I do time-related stuff accurately

Kevin

 

[Krug]

Yes! This sounds like it's going excellently! With this change the Test Map release to an earlier date? Also does this mark the end for all UUs needed? As I wish to start on the Creek Civlopedia tomorrow.

In the meantime, a new-ish idea: Revolution (Forced Ideology Change)

Now revolution stands for a lot of things in Civ, but here is an add on idea of mine. Using it as a way to force changes in ideology at certain points. The biggest example I can think of right now is Cuba. Basically, in 1956 in the mod, a revolt will start in a random Cuban town. This revolt is like any other, with a timer counting down how many turns it has left, and the same effects. There are only a few key differences:

- It lasts considerably longer (Something like 10-15 Turns)
- It spreads to other cities like Religions do (Spreading is faster than religions, but slower than Plagues in RFC Europe)
- Garrisoned units in a city with Revolution are taking constant damage, and increase the revolution timer in that city by one if destroyed by a revolution. However, the timer is decreased by one for every three turns a Garrisoned unit exists in the city.
- If a worker is Garrisoned in a city with a revolution, the worker unit is automatically destroyed and the Revolution timer increases by 1.
- If revolution spreads to the Capital, then a forced Ideology change occurs (For example, a player with a capitalist ideology in place will automatically have it changed to communism, facism, or any other form of government.)

I think this would be a good way to represent revolutions that didn't create new nations, but simply changed the government type, such as the Cuban revolution, don't you agree?

 

[kevinman4404]

Hm, ha, I think I might have confused you with releases. The test map (world map and map technology) has been suspended indefinitely, due to the fact that I cannot get wintermod to perform quickly enough.

What I am releasing is the actual mod, but in chunks. So the upcoming release will include all North and South American civs prior to colonization by Europeans. It will also include the basic, essential coding, such as rise and fall, immigration, some revolutions, etc.

I like your idea, as currently if the population doesn't like a civic all it can do is produce aimless rebels or create a new civ. So we definitely need something to change government types and ideologies. The turn timer confuses me- so 15 turns then the threat is gone? And it can be sped up/prolonged based on the units in the cities?

Ideally, forcible (ie revolution) policy change would work like in EU3, where rebels pop up in the unhappy town. For example, religious rebels would spread the religion to cities it conquers (if too many get converted, that would put pressure on you to change the religion, because if you don't you will face a lot of unhappiness and possibly even more revolts). Peasants would decrease tax revenue when they conquer a city. Ideological revolutionaries would be able to spread ideologies via conquering just like the religious ones. Rebels trying to change the government type would focus their military efforts on the capital, and only by conquering the capital would they stand a chance of changing the government type forcibly. (and later on there can be peaceful ways of change)

It would seem the EU3 method is more direct and lifelike, whereas your method is representative and mathematical. So with all respect, I will definitely include something (and both our ideas are easy to code, yours a little more so than mine) appropriate along the lines of rebellions/revolutions. And I will let you/everyone know in advance and get your input

The release cannot be moved forward- there is still much art and coding (game concepts ie revolutions, immigration, etc.) for me to do. I am really not looking forward to doing all the buttons (but I shan't be too lazy!). I feel moving the release forward would make things too tight, but it's soon at least

Kevin

 

[Krug]

I didn't expect my idea to be used as is anyway. I came up with it on the spot at 12:00 at night, so I expected it to have problems.

Your way is by far the one to use.

 

[Grishnash]

Hey! Glad to see things coming along I've done some work on the African Civilization Settler/War Map section, here's a new batch. Tell me what you think

Cheers!

@Everyone: Check out the new Forums!

Oh, check my African Civilizations Thread, aside from info on African Civilizations theres a list of 100 Things You Did Not Know About Africa Cheers!

 

[kevinman4404]

Thanks, they all look good! Nothing I can find to improve on!

I actually read through the 100 African facts in one go haha... while a couple I find controversial (ie African discovery of America at 1000AD... I realize that these claims are underinvestigated and that there isn't enough interest and that the archaeological process is slow... but I still would need more proof than similarities in artwork), it is truly interesting. Carthage 700000+ people in 300BC? Now THAT is a lot!

@Krug it wasn't a bad idea but that is one of the things that works best in EU3, and it would be ideal to bring it over. Who knows! Let's wait and see if I can code it

Kevin

 

[kevinman4404]

Here are most of the techs that will be included for mesoamericans/andes:

Spoiler :

Slash and Burn Agriculture
Raised Field Agriculture
Stone Working
Bronze Working
Sun Worship
Astrology
Early Astronomy
Early Paving
Tribal Weaponry
Logistics
Fortification
Ritual Warfare
Imperial Warfare
Urbanization

Let me know if you think of any that I forgot!

And it kind of sucks, I just realized we have no civic information whatsoever anymore. Well, bits and pieces that were posted in this thread. I will email GS and see if he can help us out!

Kevin

 

[Grishnash]

Hey, hey! I've finished all the Ancient African Empire settler/war Maps!
Check 'em out! Wasn't sure about the modern nations they are, after all, on a map...
Good luck!!!
http://www.mediafire.com/?ni041mdzm2d

 

[kevinman4404]

Hey, it's been a while since I looked at all of them, but I don't see anything that can be improved upon

And it is May 2nd, so work on this has resumed!

 

[kevinman4404]

Here is a screenie to show that the rise and fall is working more or less the way I want it to

6 civs in a very small area EDIT: sorry about the misplaced volcano graphic

Anyways, I am still working on code, I will be for the rest of this week/weekend, then I will do the few remaining Meso UUs/UBs

Kevin

 

[topsecret]

-civ help

Me
XML only

 

[kevinman4404]

haha thanks!

there are two areas where you can be of assistance-

one is compiling xmls (for example turning technology, civ information into xml files) but that is TOTALLY boring

the other is to find UUs and UBs for as many Asian civs as you can (indian+middleeast+eastasian)
this involves finding a historical UU and UB, and make sure to give me a brief description on what I should make the units look like, since I will have to use my imagination when doing the artwork

As well, I'm sure there will be some civpedia articles that could be done, depending on which ones Krug does... but that's not an immediate concern, I'll have to wait and see what/if he does

If I can provide anything for your mod, let me know!

Kevin

 

[topsecret]

OK - I'll find the UU's I like that job

 

[kevinman4404]

@topsecret- thanks! I appreciate it. It will be a while till I even touch Asian stuff (I haven't even left this continent yet!) but I will... finding Asian UUs/UBs is probably really hard and would take a lot of time away from me working on the mod.

To find a civ list there is a link to the mod's forum in my signature. You will find the full civs list in the civilizations section. Haha you might not like the job so much when you see how hard some of those civs will be but thanks for your initial enthusiasm
(not to mention there are dozens upon dozens of Asian civs muahhahhhahahahah)
Middle East is the least important, the harder the civ the more time shall be saved!

I appreciate any amount of information you find




2 more UUs ([Tiwanaku] Moche Warrior-Priest, [Nazca] Headhunter)

I will make improvements to them eventually, but for a long while these will be good

And this means I can move to native units!
I also cleaned up some code, I will try to progress on that too

 

[kevinman4404]

woops mind the shield glitch

here is all the native artwork I need to do-

Spoiler :

Base axeman
Base longbowman
Base javelineer
Base improved warrior
Base horse archer
Base hand cavalry? (UU?)
Base musketman (non-mounted)
Base Guerilla/Partisan
Iroquois Javelineer
Iroquois Scout?
Sioux Archer
Sioux javelineer
Sioux Musketman
Sharktooth Bowman
Ayastigi (see Civ Gold)
Commanche Swarm
Mantlet (eek!)
Algonqin Tomahawk Charge
Aenna Archer (see Civ Gold)
Iroquois Rifle Scout (test)
Kanya Horseman
Forest Prowler
Panther Muskets (test)
Sioux Dragoon (may not need art)
Olepi (spear horseman)
Wakina Rifle repeating rifleman
Cetan Bow (?)
Tashunke Prowler horseman with that nailed wood weapon (?) either this or Olepi
Buffalo Soldier (? I don't even know what it is)
Brave

should be no problem for a factory like me!


And a question for anyone:

What exactly is a Brave? I know they're a native warrior but beyond that I'm stumped

 

[topsecret]

And a question for anyone:What exactly is a Brave? I know they're a native warrior but beyond that I'm stumped

A young, Just out of Teenage years Native American Warrior