World History Mod development thread

Tee Kay · Apr 7, 2008

This looks like an interesting project (and very ambitious one too!). Subcription post.

@Religions,

- Christianity: should be split into Orthodox, Protestanism, Catholicism, Nestorianism (which was quite influential for a while in Asia) and, if you like, Arianism (religion of the "barbarian" Goths and Vandals)
- Please, seriously, don't include Scientology. Not influential enough.
- Buddhism: split into the main sects of Hinayana (Sri Lanka, South East Asia), Mahayana (China, Korea, Japan, including Zen Buddhism), and Tibetan (Tibet and Mongolia).
- Islam: split into Sunni and Shia. Include Druze if you want (basically a reformist/heretical sect of Islam, quite influential in Syria and Lebanon)

kevinman4404 · Apr 7, 2008

@moopoo: your new avatar completely confused me for a minute there

@taillesskangaru: welcome

I have incorporated most of your religion changes. Arianism is a maybe, Druze looks unlikely (needs a majority), and I called Hinayana Therevada. I'm glad you found a few ways to combine some lesser religions (ie to absorb zen). EDIT: forgot about Tibetan Buddhism. Depends entirely on whether or not Tibet is included as a civ, and on what the official religion was during the time of Mongolian power.

@everyone:

This is a confirmation that I will not be able to pull pieces from his mod into mine. I have already amassed a lot of errors just trying to pull settler maps in and reflecting it in the headers. I simply don't know what refers to them, or whatever is causing the problem.

I think it will come down to asking Rhye, but further examination of the python stuff has revealed to me AIWarMaps (which I need to fix to the size of my map) and I need to delete the dynamic resources. So I think I'd better try that beforehand, just in case. EDIT: as with holy city co-ords, and I'm still searching for the custom events, in case they refer to a plot on the map.

Kevin

moopoo · Apr 7, 2008

I love my new avatar

Has Rhye released (or given you) his source code for the SDK?

kevinman4404 · Apr 8, 2008

Heh sorry I can't resist another post (normally I wait till an update is ready till I say anything)

Yeah, your avatar is nice (it's about time I make myself a good one)

Yes, I am using his latest source code (B1181).

Just on the side here a bit, I am looking for ideas for a main menu background, a loading screen background, and a mod thread picture and icon, to be completed sometime when thing are running a little more smoothly. Please let me know, I love the art part of modmaking.

Back on the compatability issue, if it helps anyone find a solution to this, the CTD is occurring when the bar is at "Init Graphics." So I am guessing, as I expected, that it has to do with a poor reference between coding/python and the larger, different map.

EDIT: I have added unofficial and untested minimum and reccomended system requirements on the first page, as well as what you should do if you want the map to be playable. Just in case anyone is wondering if their computer will run this map/mod.

Kevin

Tee Kay · Apr 8, 2008

kevinman4404 said:
@taillesskangaru: welcome I have incorporated most of your religion changes. Arianism is a maybe, Druze looks unlikely (needs a majority), and I called Hinayana Therevada. I'm glad you found a few ways to combine some lesser religions (ie to absorb zen). EDIT: forgot about Tibetan Buddhism. Depends entirely on whether or not Tibet is included as a civ, and on what the official religion was during the time of Mongolian power.

Tibet was a major world power for a while between AD500 - about AD1000, and remained quite influential for most of the period since then.

Mongolia in Genghis' days was unusual for tolerating all religions. Buddhism began to spread among the Mongols around the time of Kublai Khan, and became the dominant religion in around AD1700. It was also adopted by the Manchus as well.

Spoiler irrelevance :

moopoo · Apr 8, 2008

LOL to that spoiler. That's how i wanna end all my arguments

ooh ooh ooh ooh I have ideas Kevin!

You could use an ancient world map, or collage of great people (eg ptolemy), or a collage of world leaders, or a collage of maps. ok, so i pretty much have one idea

what else... a collage of wonders

, perhaps the cover of a famous book of history...

What size do the images need to be?

I just looked at the minimum computer specs...

I better be getting a new computer for my birthday

Gooblah · Apr 8, 2008

Few things:
Sorry about the progress halt thing, Kevinman. That sux. If I knew how to mod past units, I would gladly assist...

As for the wonders thing Moopoo brought up (unintentionally?

), that remind's me: are you planning on adding any new wonders? Cuz I got a few ideas that I had planned to add anyways...

Spoiler :

moopoo · Apr 9, 2008

I was planning a mod a whiles back, kind of a *add lots of everything* with a couple of gameplay changes. It's on hold while i learn python C++. However, I did make a list of possible wonders (and buildings, and units, which i can post if anyone wants)

Wonders:

Spoiler :

kevinman4404 · Apr 10, 2008

@tailless: seems like it will be incorporated, and the Tibetan civ included.
@moopoo: for images, the one for the thread should be something the width of the first post and with height anything but not exceeding width; for an icon it doesn't matter we can always reduce it; for the in-game ones (main menu and loading screen) it should be the size of a 12XX by 10XX resolution screen.

and thanks for the wonder list. It's a little early for me to be able to comment on it (and what would be included and not included), but I will be coming back and using any resources I have accumulated. Same with units and buildings. There will probably come a point when I sneak that out of you

@Gooblah- thanks

All those should be included, simply cuz they're all so well-known and important. Plus, the P.Canal (and maybe Suez Canal) would go well with the canals everyone keeps wanting me to implement. As for St. Peter's Cathedral, never heard of it, but I trust it would probably be something that would work.

@tailless and everyone else: yes it is the slowest time for this mod, and I'm sustaining this with response posts. I plan to have the results of my current streak of efforts to compatibilize

)) the map with the mod by Fri/Sat (most likely Saturday). After that, it'll either work, and I'll celebrate like crazy, or I will be getting some outside help on it.

Kevin

moopoo · Apr 10, 2008

I'll post those lists in a day or two (I might do a bit more digging, coz it seems they are mostly written for unique units/buildings *shrugs*)

Angst · Apr 10, 2008

About wonders
Watch it. We don't have enough time to construct to include all wonders in the world. I agree to all wonders, except for:

Leaning Tower of Pisa - It wasn't made so by purpose, and the church next to it is merely a church.
Panama Canal - is already included in the game (With canals implemented)
Musee de Louvre - Don't. We have Hermitage already, and it represents a national art museum.
Colosseum - Hmm, I've seen it before somewhere...

Temple of Tikal - Is already included, the Chitzen Itcha
Venice - It's a city.
Theory of Evolution - It's not a building
Art of War - Not a building
Smith's Trading Co. - Not a building, a corporation
Cure for Cancer - Should be a tech, along with Theory of Evolution.

moopoo · Apr 10, 2008

Lol

They weren't my list of wonders i thought should be in the game, they were my list of wonders that could possibly be added. As you rightly point out, some of them are inappropriate for one reason or another.

Of some of those you shot down:
Leaning Tower - I completely agree with you
Colosseum - lol. My list was based on wonders not in the vanilla game or it's expansions

Temple of Tikal - I would prefer this to "Chichen Itza", for the reason you shot down Venice

Venice - I just copied and pasted off a list, but i think it refers to the canal system

Grishnash · Apr 10, 2008

Hmmm... I was just looking at the religions (good thing you offed scientology

) and I was thinking, why isn't Traditional African Religion there? I mean, I guess it doesn't have a name, but you can call it African Spirituality. But I really think it should be in there. And, no, it is not Christianity or Islam. They had there own religion, for crying out loud

GO kevinman4404!! Giving Moral Support!

Oh, and one more small thing. Is that Madagascar suppost to be the Madagascar Nation or the Merina Empire? Maybe you should add Merina?
And no empire in Africa called Kush?

Giving Moral Support!

kevinman4404 · Apr 11, 2008

@wonders: yeah, they would have to be buildings, and either already have a graphic or be modelable by me. So Venice canals wouldn't work. Neither would the last 4. Tikal>Chichen Itza. Leaning Tower and Louvre are maybes, not neccessarily defeated. I'm not forcing a singular representation of different types of world wonders. The shogunate is an iffy, and I'll have to look at Great Buddha, along with the others I am not familiar with. Panama Canal and Suez Canal may be made wonders, so they can generate some sort of niche income and unique effect, and maybe even control the canal. Maccu Picchu is an Incan city and will be represented as such.

@Grishnash: thanks

On the subject of African religion, as you can see back a few posts, I am thinking hard of trying to have African spirituality represented. I am still not quite done dividing the pagan, native and tribal religions yet.

I should clarify one thing.

In the civs list, for each region, the first group of names should be for historic empires/civs, then there should be a space, then a second set of names of modern nations that I would like to represent. These have fewer unique events, are less likely to appear, and are more to modernize the game in the end. I'm actually not so sure about the inclusion of Madagascar, but I'll go with it for now. Merina etc. will not be represented, rather there will be natives who will be conquered by the French.

As for Kush, I think you should look at the list again for a different name

Nubians, though I think I'll change it to Kush/Kushites. May be less descriptive but it's snazzier.

I'll update the compatability problem tommorow night if I can.

Oh, and I have found some sources for code that will help me make the Wintermod/Summermod/Floodmod components. This feature alone will be a huge modding advancement (once we get past this imminent problem and the first phase is released).

Kevin

Tee Kay · Apr 11, 2008

On wonders:

Make Theory of Evolution, Theory of Gravity and Cure for Cancer techs. Make Art of War and Smith Trading Co. projects (eg like Internet).

By the way have you created a tech tree yet?

EviltheMonkey · Apr 11, 2008

I'm sort-of working on a tech-tree at the moment (unofficially).

I've included Natural Selection, Laws of Motion and Genetics as techs. I was planning on having the Human Genome Project as a wonder (requires Genetics). As for the others I'm not sure whether they really fit as wonders.

moopoo · Apr 11, 2008

It seems there's a bunch of unofficial work going on here

I myself was planning on Looking up and creating possible bonuses for possible wonders tommorrow

Kevin, do you have a team working on this (which is surely one of the most ambitious Civ mods ever - you may just be edged out by FFH)? Did you want a team?

Gooblah · Apr 11, 2008

Hmm. I agree with Joakim on this as well. And...yeah.

I'll brainstorm stuff (as in bonuses for wonders) and get back to you on that.

Also, I think Cure for Cancer, Theory of Evolution, etc, are kinda... 'untechy'? They seem more as sentimental things than techs. Changing their names would help, I guess.

Cure for Cancer - Disease Control
Theory of Evolution - Biology/Genetics, IMO
Laws of Motion - Physics, IMO

Edit:

Now that I think about it, its hard to come up with South American Wonders. Best I could come up with is the Temple of The Sun (part of the Maccu Piccu complex)

Temple of the Sun
- Temples: -10% cost
- +3 :religion:

Missionaries upon completion
- +1 attitude with all non- :religion:

Leaders

Also, here's a National Wonder Idea

Terra Cotta Soldiers/Tomb of the Emperor

- +5

in city
- -25% War :mad:

in city
- + 2N free units

where N is the number of Civs on the map

Grishnash · Apr 11, 2008

as you can see back a few posts

I'm always late

one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks.
2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.
–adjective 4. pertaining to the worship or worshipers of any religion that is neither Christian, Jewish, nor Muslim.
5. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of pagans.

Yep, well, in a way they are Pagans, noteing 2 and 4... But TAR had only one almighty.
As for native and tribal religion... I'm sure that if any African empire had been able to last for this long, TAR would be one of the major religions today.. and would have a name.
I have an idea. Have it that religions can die off, like if rome is a Jew nations, but has no/little temples and stuff, and then christian spreads into their lands, and another christian nation has lots of temples and stuff, then jew slowly starts fading away from rome. That way you can have TAR, and "cuz they didn't have big temples(doesn't mean it's not a religion) it was over taken by Islam and Christian. But it was a religion, a real religion, it's just that it's people were defeated and their defeaters had their own religion is why TAR is not a major Relgion today.
And plus, with all these new African empires you're adding(which I like

) it would be kind of dumb having to wait for the middle-east to come up with Islam or Christian before they have a religion and get the happy face and all.
But... That's just my two cents... Can't even buy a candy nowadays

As for Kush, I think you should look at the list again for a different name Nubians, though I think I'll change it to Kush/Kushites. May be less descriptive but it's snazzier.

Opps, didn't see that... My bad

But, yeah, I think Kush would be better

No Madagascar, wahh! I always wanted to play them!

GO kevinman4404!! Giving Moral Support! ...I think i'll make that my sig

{Wonders}
What would the CN tower do?
And I think it would have to be Tomb of the Emperor, you know, cuz I don't know of any Terra Cotta Soldiers in Rome..

moopoo · Apr 12, 2008

...

That's coz they're in China. Lol I have approximately no idea what you mean

World History Mod development thread

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