World Spells: When to use (civ by civ)

[Feyd Rautha]

So, I have recently come back to FFH2, and I'm quite enjoying it (as always). I have been perusing the forums to get myself reacquainted, and I came back to a persistent question I've had which is "when to use my world spells?".

I still remember alot and some are more obvious than others, but since I'm only a "noble" player, I know that others (I'm looking at you diety players) will have better suggestions especially on those "questionable" civ worldspells.

So without further ado...

Amurites - Arcane Lacuna (No casting for X turns)
This one I would think to be a good one to cast before any major mid- to late-game campaign/land grab. If you're hitting the Sheaim, Belseraphs, or another magical superpower around your level this is a good trump card. Also, with the changes to Acheron and the SoI spam, this would be a great window to try and take down the dragon also.

When to cast?: Circumstantial/Right before war with "on level" civilization in mid/late-game.

Balseraphs - Revelry (2x length Golden Age)
Another circumstantial one, but MUCH more debatable. The problem here is that it should be early (but not too early) and there comes a point where its effectiveness is diminished.

My general rule is to use it when I reach 5-6 cities with their basic buildings finished (market, elder council, library, granary, smokehouse, carnivals,(lighthouse), courthouse, and one or more military unit buildings/temples). My oldest cities try to grab wonders and my secondary cities push out units. I've also used it when I am able to build the Great Library, Catacomb Librarius, and a couple other key wonders. If I am Perpentach and happen to have Industrious I like to do this just to snag wonders.

When to cast?: Circumstantial/Basic infrastructure built for 5-6 cities (debatable)

Bannor - Rally (Creates Demagogs)
In my opinion, it is relatively easy to know when to cast Rally. Research Fanatacism, declare war on the biggest foe, change civics to Crusade, cast Rally, and dominate the world. If you did a "balanced" tech progression, you should be able to basically finish the game right there with whatever you have available.

When to cast?: After you research Fanatacism

Calabim - River of Blood (+2 pop all cities, -2 pop all foe's cities)
For me, the jury is out on this world spell. I see basically two options: Option one is to cast it first thing. Start on turn 1 with a 3 pop city and you're in a good place for the rest of the game. This ignores the second aspect of the spell which is to reduce your foe's cities. The second option, and I think the better one, is to use it when your most populous city is 2 happy faces away from cap. Your foes will definitely take a hit by this point, and you'll probably have a few additional cities (and will therefore get an even greater benefit.

When to cast?: Early game when most populous city is 2 happy faces from cap.

Clan of Embers - For the Horde (Converts 50% of world's orc units)
This world spell gets a lot of flak for various reasons not the least of which is the distinct possibility that you could wind up collapsing your economy if you use it too late or too early; or it can be useless if used way too late. (FYI, one should use the "Barbarian World" option if they are playing with the Clan.)

I've experimented with the Clan a few times and found that when I use it early, I can get enough units to perhaps take out an early civ, but my economy takes forever to recover because of the huge influx of units I just added. I've also used it in the late-mid game period and collapsed my economy due to the mass of units I popped in an untouched continent where the barb cities had done nothing but produce units for hundreds of turns.

Overall, I think the best time is right after you build Rantine. You'll get a good amount of units, but your economy is typically strong enough to handle it. You also find out where barbarian cities are located for him to convert. Finally, due to current bugs you will have a good chance of getting a couple Sons of Inferno from Acheron's city.

When to cast?: Right after you build Rantine

Doviello - Wild Hunt (Produces [STR/2+1] wolf units in each unit's tile)
This world spell has been one that's hard for me to know when it is best used. If you use it after you get a handful of warriors it could be helpful, but generally it's not going to do much to have a bunch of 2 str wolves and since it effectively doubles your units you could wind up crushing your economy the same as you would with "For the Horde".

In my estimation, there are really two points where the spell has the best impact. The first is after the bronze weapon upgrade (gives most of them a base 3 strength) and the second is after the iron weapon upgrade (depending on the unit they will have anywhere from 4 to 5 strength). I'd lean towards iron working unless you know you can rush immediately at bronze working.

When to cast?: Bronze working or Iron working (debatable)

Elohim - Sanctuary (Impassable borders for 30 turns)
I have to admit I've not played the Elohim that much so this is mainly my theories on how best to approach things. Generally speaking though, I think this world spell is not as difficult to "know when" as others. In my theorizing, I think it comes down to a few possible options.

Option one (and by far the most preferred I'd wager) is to go for a "peaceful" victory type (Towers, Altars, Culture) and about 30 turns from the win, cast Sanctuary and position all your units on your borders to laugh at the SoD's wanting to bash your head in. Since it is late in the game, you could also potentially finish "Birthright Regained" before the end of the initial sanctuary and then cast it again!

Option two is to use it proactively after cordoning off your continent. Have all the open borders you want, but also ensure you have time to get all the real estate on your side of the culture line.

Option three is suboptimal, but if you are about to be overrun you can use Sanctuary to buy yourself some time. I imagine this is how it gets used most often.

Option four is to again use it proactively as part of a major attack. Set up a couple stacks and attack weak coastal cities for a "30 turn war" where you can keep rolling on as the defense forces you just circumvented stew unable to attack your newly captured city. Thanks to DaveGold and hbar for the suggestion!

When to cast?: 30 turns before a peaceful victory type (or "upon taking your first city in a 30-turn war")

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Grigori - Ardor (Resets Great Person counter)
This one is math based and I stink at math Generally speaking I'd guess that about the time you get your 15th to 20th great person the counter is astronomically high that you could perhaps net 10 or more almost immediately after that. If someone has a system in place I've not read about it and I'd love to hear more.

EDIT: The Grigori Altar sling - Many people note the powerful aspect of Ardor which allows a player to focus on priest GPPs using theocracy, cast Ardor, and convert the great prophets that result into a 0-60 altar victory.

When to cast?: After your 15th Great Person (or after you are able to construct the 6th level altar of Lunnotar)

Hippus - Warcry (Attack buff for all units)
Warcry is a worldspell that depends a lot on the game as it plays out. While there is no definite time that would work best (i.e. after a tech or other specific event), your gut can typically give you a good guess.

The one time I found that it was really effective for me was right after I had built up a sizeable force of horsemen and chariots and intended to clear my continent. I declared war and cast warcry and proceeded to wash across the two opponents with whom I was sharing land like a wave. It worked out rather well, but there were a few problems with sustaining my push after gaining the well placed cities. If I had it to do again I'd do basically the same thing, but I'd wait until I had both Iron Working and The Guild of the Nine. You can rush across everything if you have the Guild to provide you with defenders and reinforcements right away.

When to cast?: Sizeable army, iron weapons, and Guild of the Nine?

Illians - Stasis (Everybody freezes for X turns)
The manual says it best when they say that the Illians are about taking chances. Their world spell is no different. Stasis is a boon to you either way, but it is how you use that boon that matters. I think the common agreement is that one should use Stasis early in the game, but how early exactly. I've heard people say that you should A) use it as soon as you spawn, B) use it after 7-8 turns (whenever the average AI civ is 1 turn away from building their warrior, or C) hold on to it and use it after you've amassed your first warrior rush force so the enemy you are targeting cannot build defenders to counter.

When to cast?: Turn 1, one turn before they AI gets their first warrior built, or right before your first warrior rush (debatable)

Infernals - Hyborem's Whisper (Choose three best non-capital Ashen Veil cities)
Don't think there is one that has a simpler usage. Turn one after you spawn.

When to cast?: Turn one after you spawn

Khazad - Mother Lode (25 gold for every mine, 10% chance to make flat terrain a hill)
You go from the easiest civilization to the hardest. I love playing the Khazad, but I rarely know when to use Mother Lode. The problem I think is risk vs. reward. The risk you face is waiting too long. If you have a lot of cities at their hard food cap and cast this you could have severe starvation on your hands. Whereas if you don't wait long enough you may only get a few hundred gold.

What should one choose? I saw a strategy that I've used that doesn't cripple me and helps a little. About the time your third city gets its second border pop, mine any and all hills and then cast mother lode. Typically this is also the time when you want to expand again or want to go to war with a neighbor and the money you get helps tremendously with keeping your gold count up so new cities don't cause you serious woes you also have a little food remaining in your oldest city so you won't go into starvation.

When to cast?: Third cities second border pop? (highly debatable)

Kuriotates - Legends (+300 culture in each city)
I love playing the Kuriotates but always found their world spell to be a bit of an odd bird. A lot of when to use it comes from how you play which is what I really thought was interesting. If you play the Kuriotates as a modified One City Challenge civilization then you are likely to not find much use for Legends. You'll move slowly and find your three city spots and build those up. When you explore more of the map or reach other continents you'll start cherry picking resources and that's about it.

I've always wondered though if Kuriotates are in fact meant to be the greatest REX civ in the game. It seems ironic, but given the fact that they can place a near infinite amount of settlements for little to no cost it behooves one to quickly find a second city location and then spam defender/settler/building/building through the mid game until which time you cover your resource needs. At that point... cast legends and you can almost triple your land area. Keep meaning to try it... perhaps tonight is the night.

When to cast?: Last settlement on your main continent placed? (debatable)

Lanun - Raging Seas (75% damage to all coastal units, can destroy improvements)
The Lanun worldspell is, for all intensive purposes, an exalted worldwide Tsunami. It's great right before a massive sea invasion, but generally limited. The Lanun are so powerful when there is any ocean or sea on the map that it doesn't matter as much that they have a generally boring world spell with limited uses.

When to cast?: Right before your first mid-game sea invasion. (debatable)

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Ljosalfar - March of the Trees (Five turn treat summon in each forest and ancient forest tile)
I love and hate the Ljosalfar. They are a great civ for pushing right on through the game, setting up their borders, and living peacefully in their forests under the Way of the Forest, but they also drive me crazy because they cannot go on the offensive to save their life.

March of the Trees can somewhat mitigate this, but there are two problems. The first is that the treants are slow moving and only last five turns. Great if you have an assault you want to make against a neighbor, but not very useful if you want to go to war with a far flung enemy. Secondly, if you wait too long to cast this you could wind up facing a severe famine in your lands due to the loss of your ancient forests. In the end, this is a good spell for an early war against a neighbor or if you get bumrushed by an enemy and need some defenders ASAP.

When to cast?: An early war against an neighbor or as a "last line of defense"

Luchuirp - Gifts of Nantosuelta (Golden Hammer item in each city [+1 str weapon if carried or engineer if settled]
This is one of my favorite and (in my opinion) best world spells. It also, however, is a worldspell that always makes me wonder if I could be using it more effectively. Gifts of Nantosuelta also has a second strategy layer that doubles the anxiety.

First off you have to decide how many hammers you want. I generally use the spell when I have five cities but I've also held off if I have immediate expansion oppurtunities. The three-layer second problem is to wield, settle, or migrate the hammers. I never wield the hammers as a whole, but I have used ONE on a hero or Barnaxus from time to time. The true decision is whether or not to settle the engineer in each city (upping your individual cities production power) or to migrate them all to the city with your national epic in order to produce more great engineers. I prefer the latter, but there are merits to spreading the wealth as well.

When to cast?: When you reach your natural expansion limit (in your immediate area)?

----------------
Ok so I have to cut this one short, but here are the remaining civs and when I typically try to focus my world spell casting.

Malakim - Religious Fervor (One priest for state religion in each city with +1xp per city)
Discussion coming soon!

When to cast?: When you reach 10, 17, or (ideally) 26 cities

Mercurians - Divine Retribution (Massive damage to all demon and undead units worldwide)
Discussion coming soon!

When to cast?: When your troops are in place to best strike at the Infernals

Sheaim - Worldbreak (Damage to cities and units throughout the world based on Armageddon Counter)
Discussion coming soon!

When to cast?: I've always waited until 100 on the AC.

Sidar - Into the Mist (Gives all current units the Hidden promotion)
Discussion coming soon!

When to cast?: When you reach about 20-25 workers?

Svartalfar - Veil of Night (Gives all current units the Hidden Nationality promotion)
Discussion coming soon!

When to cast?: I generally like to get a "hit squad" for each civ in the game and then cast this (Two defensive, two assassins, two brutes, one or two collateral types). I can't take cities, but I can cripple a civ very quickly.

 

[DaveGold]

Arcane Luna - At war.

Balseraphs - Avoid stasis, especially against human opponents.

Calabim - Can be used before a massive vampire feasting session.

Clan - build up a dwarf sized treasury beforehand so you have options how to use your new units, including hiring from forts to pad out a rag-tag-army. Disbanding all the far flung units is certainly an option.

Doviello - turn 1 is an option for Charadon as you can scout widely and find your neighbours, good city sites, goody huts, and goblin forts for hiring troops.

Elohim - You can use sanctuary offensively, capturing cities and keeping your army moving without trailing off defensive units. One example would be a coastal assault with cultists and stygian guards, picking off coastal cities while a strong land based enemy is helpless against you. Ethne can also do some perculiar land grabs in the early game using her creative trait backed up by sanctuary. Normally though you use it when someone is about to kick your butt.

 

[hbar]

For the Elohim, an often overlooked aspect is the offensive use of Sanctuary. If no unit can enter your borders, you don't have to leave any units in newly conquered cities. This allows you to keep your stack intact and continue your invasion momentum. This, combined with Tolerant, makes the Elohim one of the better warmonger civs out there.

When to cast: upon taking your first city in a 30-turn war.

 

[Senethro]

This, combined with Tolerant, makes the Elohim one of the better warmonger civs out there.

Oh come on, thats just a silly thing to say. They don't have a war trait, they don't have good unique units, they don't even have a good economy. They certainly benefit from having conducted a successful war but they have no advantages in making one.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

2nd set is up. Added a fourth option for the Elohim off of DaveGold and hbar's comments.

 

[a_civilian]

Wild hunt: No reason to cast this if you're not going to use the wolves immediately. It's just an economic drain to have those wolves standing around. Cast it right before a major battle.

Religious fervor: If I'm planning to use a different religion, I like to cast this as soon as I get Ashen Veil in all of my cities, so I get a bunch of ritualists (the entire reason for using AV) and can immediately switch to my permanent religion. It's also a huge military boost to get so many ritualists immediately. I don't think XP should be a significant factor in deciding when to use this, at least with Varn Gosam, as his spiritual trait means the priests will be getting plenty of XP anyway.

Worldbreak: If you use it at low AC you'll only do some damage to units and destroy a few buildings. Use at AC 100 to actually kill units. Also I may be mistaken but it's my understanding that this spell only affects units in cities, in which case you want to make sure at least that the largest opponent's stack is in one of their cities. (Not that anyone will have much of a stack left after wrath and apocalypse.)

Hyborem's whisper: Requires malevolent designs, so you can't use it turn 1. Make sure you aren't taking a city from someone you're at war with or you won't be able to gate in any units (it doesn't expel their units from the city). (Edit: this might be fixed since 041g. Personally I've actually never managed to get malevolent designs as Hyborem before the game was over.)

Legends: I prefer to use it as soon as the third city is placed so that the cities can immediately work the third ring (and to keep the third ring safe from opponent settlement). Settlement culture isn't that important since you can place as many as you need, though it can help if your settlements border other civilizations.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Third one is partially up. Ran out of time for today.

a civilian... I will add in your thoughts when I come back to it later.

 

[Emptiness]

Balseraphs - Revelry (2x length Golden Age)
I like to try to use this spell to prevent anarchy from civic and religion changes, especially when I have several civics to change all at once, as well as a religion change to make. Because of the length of the golden age, it is also very well suited to situations where I want to make a change, do something, and then change back (such as switching to a gold-rush civic, spending excess gold to rush production, and then switching back to slavery, or switching to another religion temporarily to build a cadre of that religion's priests). Used in this way, it prevents two periods of anarchy.

Doviello - Wild Hunt (Produces [STR/2+1] wolf units in each unit's tile)
The key to avoiding economic damage from this spell is to use the Wolves immediately. Take your attack force to your enemy's strongest city or main stack, cast the spell, and then immediately use all the wolves there as shock troops to weaken your foe before your regular troops engage. If you have Carnivals, settle Wolves that appear in your cities for the extra culture. If you still have support problems after those two reductions, then gather Wolves and combine them into Wolf Packs. Don't forget to make any demands or peace offers you want to make before you start using up your wolves, since at that instant your army appears twice as strong to the AI.

Infernals - Hyborem's Whisper (Choose three best non-capital Ashen Veil cities)
When I summon the Infernals I tend to do it quickly, and so will usually not have Malevolent Designs at first. Since casting it immediately is not an option, I prefer to use it offensively, as a prelude to conquering a civ (especially useful if that civ is remote, or if getting to them would require going through a civ I'm not inclined to fight yet). I will build up my forces, then Whisper a city away. My army will be gated to the new city (as quickly as possible, starting with Hyborem himself), and I will use that as my staging ground to conquer the city's previous owner (who is likely to be a tasty target, since it probably has units that will become Manes when they die).

Khazad - Mother Lode (25 gold for every mine, 10% chance to make flat terrain a hill)
I really hate this spell, because of the damage it can do to my strategic city placement by puting hills where I don't want them. Also, the gold influx becomes less and less impressive as the game progresses. I try to use this spell as soon as practical, even before founding a second city. I'll mine all the hills around my capitol and hopefully the extra gold will increase my vault production bonus to help get out that first or second settler faster.

Kuriotates - Legends (+300 culture in each city)
I like to take advantage of this spell to overwhelm the expansion cities of other civs. The AI doesn't built monuments as quickly as (I think) it should, and for non-Creative leaders this can mean that expansion cities have no culture for quite a while. Quietly fill in the gaps with settlements, then when you've run out of places for new ones use Legends to put serious cultural pressure on your opponents.

Malakim - Religious Fervor (One priest for state religion in each city with +1xp per city)
I like to use this to generate a bunch of alternate-faith priests in a hurry. I may follow one faith but want access to the combat potential of another faith's priests. I make sure that the second faith is present in all my cities, convert to that faith, use Religious Fervor to generate a bunch of those priests instantly, and then convert back to my original faith at the next opportunity. (The alternate faith can then be removed from my cities via Inquisition, if I want - such as if I flirted with AV to get Ritualists but I don't want my cities to be contributing to the AC.)

(I see that a_civilian posted some of these thoughs while I was typing, but hopefully there's no harm in repeating them.)

 

[DaveGold]

Illians - I usually try to combine stasis with a war, samhain, and the deepening, just to turn the screw on the opponents. Statis really locks down a wartime opponent with no new units, no tech trades, no tech research, so no promotions usually, no war allies, no extra city defences. A few evil people use it during an opponents golden age, typically in multiplayer.

Svartalfar - One option is to use the world spell after building Nox Noctis. Your hidden nationality units are then invisible within your borders and safe. I find this works best with Nyxkin who are then perfect pillagers, and maybe some assassins, maybe some mages. If you have enough of those you can probably declare nationality on all the other units.

 

[Ash_Highwind]

Sidar - Into the Mist (Gives all current units the Hidden promotion)
Discussion coming soon!

When to cast?: When you reach about 20-25 workers?

Its also very nice after you build 3 scouts and send them all scouting for huts, dont explore with them - it makes them visible again- but goody huts can be safely explored without going visible, i also try to get 1-2 workers out and cast it then.
In my opinion its one of the stronger worldspells, and can be used individual.

just my opinion

 

[Onionsoilder]

With the Kuriotates, I generally like to get two settlers out ASAP and find a good spot to place my cities, then hit Legends right after the third city. There is no real reason to delay Legends until you get more settlements built, unless there is a way to immediately profit from it(such as some far-flung resources just out of reach). I've found that instantly grabbing the tiles in your large 3-tile work area is better than delaying it.

I like using Blessings of Nanosuelta right after placing my third city, and I migrate all the hammers into a single city. This produces more Great Engineers faster, and as such you will obviously want the National Epic here. This is very useful if you are aiming for a Mercurian Rush, which lets you summon Basium around turn 110. Very fun. 10

Ljosalfar's spell is not as useful as some others, but can be used in a military emergency. It hurts when you lose your Ancient Forest, but it can be very useful... last game I was trying to fend off an AI army and Stephanos as the same time, and I would have died if I wasn't able to use ~20 of those trents to suicide on Stephanos.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Quick question on the Kurios... Does anyone reserve a city for later expansion on another continent? I obviously try for the nexus in order to make settlments in far flung places across the oceans, but I've always been hesitant to put all three of my cities (or five if I play a huge map) on one continent. I realize I'm limiting myself, but at the same time I am also giving myself some late game flexibility.

Also, what do you look for if you get stuck with less than ideal space for three 3 ring cities? (i.e. too much desert, not enough land, etc.?)

Can't finish today (busy, busy), but will have some time on Friday. (It is Holy Week, and so I'm swamped).

 

[xAlephx]

On the Luchuirp - I'd say there's really no comparison between the benefits of a single heavy production city and spreading them out. Great Engineers really help you bulb your way into your impressive mid-game, and a single mega-production city + Industrious means you can grab a number of contested Wonders pronto.

Calabim - I'd say waiting until you're at 3 in your first city probably gives you the highest turn advantage. Lost pop pre-worker is hard to replace.

 

[a_civilian]

A remark on Raging Seas: note that unlike Tsunami this spell can kill. It only rarely (if ever) kills a full-strength unit, but it will frequently kill damaged units. Therefore, if you catch an enemy stack next to a coast or lake you can hit it with Tsunamis and then cast Raging Seas to finish off most of the stack.

Calabim - I'd say waiting until you're at 3 in your first city probably gives you the highest turn advantage. Lost pop pre-worker is hard to replace.

It's worth noting that on Immortal and Deity the AI civilizations start with a worker.

 

[xAlephx]

It's worth noting that on Immortal and Deity the AI civilizations start with a worker.

Gah! No wonder they whip out ahead of me in points!

March of the Trees: Recent game revealed an excellent usage of this spell - as negotiating tool.

I'm usually lagging in several areas at once in Immortal, and invariably one of my neighbors sees weakness and comes-a-callin. March of the Trees usually lets you whip the crap out of their BSOD, take a nearby city, and then negotiate for techs due to your apparent overwhelming military advantage (Hey, it's a Ljos exclusive spell, they have no way of knowing the Treants are temporary!). I just got Mining, Priesthood, Alteration, Divination, Warfare, and a couple of cities I definitely can't keep but can trade back for diplomatic advantage. Not bad for a situation which otherwise would have cost me at least several cities and possibly the game.

 

[Kranden]

A really good time to cast for the Horde Is also when The illians cast statis, you will have 20 turns of 0 support cost for all those units and can go one one hell of a pillage rampage.

 

[JonathanStrange]

I think Feyd Rautha's Ljosalfar's "When To Cast" recommendation hits the target - and I speak as a Follower of the Leaves from way back.

Early use: Your target better be very close, so close that you can march your strength 10 Treants to their cities, knock out their wannabe Conans and pillage their Jamba Juice shops before your 5-turn life ends and your Treants turn into puppet-material.

Negatives: You've played your Get Out of Jail Free card, early use means fewer Treants summoned.

Late Use: Usually late use is a desperation move 'cause if you're winning you're not going to need Treants and ruin your economy. I woud wait 'til the enemy's in the forest, then wham!

Negatives: Your ancient forests disappear along with their bonuses. But it does beat having to worship non-bark gods and learn new rituals.

 

[Elyssaen]

I'm happy to see the Ljosalfar being mentioned so much! I just played a Ljosalfar game where I forgot about March of the Trees. I started near to the Sheaim on a large Erebus map (think valleys), and was a bit too cocky: I founded Yonna on the far side of their kingdom, cutting them off from the largest of two valleys they could expand into. I thought giving them a bit of technology and having them follow the Fellowship would keep them from war. I also thought 'axemen' were useless against even far inferior numbers of fortified archers on a forest choke point. ('Axemen'?! I forgot about pyre zombies.)

Without March of the Trees, this is what would have happened. Fifteen pyre zombies would have fallen upon Yonna and taken it, and then reinforced another group which was laying siege to the choke point to my kingdom. My peace-loving Ljosalfar would've fallen back, and they could've seized my capital.

With March of the Trees, I forced them out of Yonna, tree against burning zombie like it's going out of fashion. A treant army from my empire was enough to allow me to take their capital. Where I should have lost, due to playing peace-loving Ljosalfar right next to the Sheaim and forgetting about pyre zombies, I instead destroyed them. (Barely.)

It's definitely an early game world spell, and has flaws (my economy was destroyed; my population starved), but I so far haven't ever been so rescued by a world spell. In the right situation – early on, against an aggressive neighbour – it's amazing.

The other use, of course, is in pure desperation later on against a full invasion. It really would be desperation, though, because the damage to your economy probably means you're just delaying the inevitable. (Perhaps that's enough if you're going for a Luonnotar or Altar victory.)