Worst civ

[theobaldus]

Oh well, I am ashamed to read this thread. Blackdragon I hope for you that you are very young or from eastern Germany and just dont know what you are saying here. I am German too and your words and views make me not only ashamed to be one but also sad.

Make yourself clear that you are ONLY talking for yourself you do NOT represent anyone else but yourself. Claiming to speak for Germany or even other European countries is a hybris of yours.

You might be otherwise well educated but in quite a lot of things you posted here you were not only incorrect but also claimed those things to be absolute truth:

1.Actions of people/peoples have to be judeged according to the timeframe they take/took place. There is not only a technical evolution in society but also an ethical. Check out Books about the "Voelkerwanderung" and learn how the German tribes came to Western Europe and by that destroying ancient cultures. War and Colonization have not been considered bad things or even unethical at all times of human history. The modern judgement of western cultures about war is a direct result from WW I and the terrible despair and sorrow it produced. However the massmurdering of Germans by Germans took place at a time of ethical and philosophal evolution that _clearly_ find this things unaccaptable. By commiting this suicide (and most important: NOT resisiting it!) in modern times Germany and I mean all of us Germans voluntary depromoted ourselfs to just about animal level in regards of ethical and moral responsiblity. The combination of advanced technique with barbaric ethical attidutes is one of the most terrible facts of the genocide. I hope you understand that important lesson.

2. G.Bush might not be the wisest person in the world and maybe I dislike him for many things as much as you do. But he definatly did not commit a Putsch as you claim. He came to power in a close but valid vote. That is democracy. If he got 99% of the votes I would be more concerned.
In regards of a two party system in the USA I would recommend that you Blackdragon take a closer look at how the US democracy works. There is a true split of powers as secraterys as well as the President are not members of the congress, unlike Germany where the goverment controlls itself. That is undemoratic. Futhermore there is no "Fraktionszwang"(Representatives have to vote in parliament as they have been ordered to by their parties faction in parliament) in the USA. This is probably the most undemocratic part of the oligarchy system in Germany. Actually the USA are the most stable democracy in the world. Maybe, just maybe there is reason for that, dont you think?

3.Have you ever been to an Indian reservate in the USA? I doubt so. Comparing KLs (often wrongly named KZs) to Indian reservates is not only untrue, rude and uncalled for but also dumb. Study some history before you open your mouth.

4. I am, even though I am two generations after WWII, still being grateful for what the Americans did for my family, namly liberating us from the most terrible evil this planet has seen so far. I am in deep respect for the sacrifices the American people suffered in effort to restore freedom in Europe. There is still something I would call a "Blutschuld" (debt in blood) between the USA and Germany. Why had Americans to die or be serverly injured for the rest of their lifes? Because "we" germans did not manage to get rid of the spirits we called. Always remember: Without Americans who died on the Battlefields we opend we would still suffer from facist terror and I myself would probably never had been born.


Thank you for reading this long post and I want sincerly apologies for whatever bad feelings Blackdragon might have caused and assure you that he only speaks for himself and nobody else.

Theo

 

[Zannhart]

aaaaa

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Enough of the WW2 talk. I would strongly advise that you people refrain from such blatantly off-topic, inflammatory discussions in the future. Blackdragon, who started this mess, will be interested to know that WW2 is an area of HISTORY and therefore belongs in our history forums. Future blantant deviations such as this will result in a recommended vacation. You've been warned.

 

[Ulv]

Originally posted by theobaldus
[Always remember: Without Americans who died on the Battlefields we opend we would still suffer from facist terror and I myself would probably never had been born.


Well first af all it was RUSSIAN blod spilt by bloodthirsty German 'Aryans' and it were RUSSIANS who liberated all your Berlins and Dresdens from faschist scum, the Amers and Brits had arrived only one year before the war ended, all the dirty work of 'frigjoernig' was done by those 'Untermenschen' who now have to fight some other scum down south

I dunno what you're being taught in your history books but lack of historic memory may lead to many more problems...remember what Bismarck used to say (all clever people spent some time in RUSSIA) about it.

live long to become clever u Sauerkraut

Rossija vpered!

 

[Ohwell]

The zulu are DEFINATLEY the WORST in the game. I mean WHO THE HECK NEEDS A SCOUT AND NICE GOODY HUTS!!!!!! And militaristic? ITS WORTHLESS I TELL YOU!! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
I think religious is kind of cool though. Same with commercial. THE INDIANS ROCK!!! IM NOT BEING SARCASTIC!!!!!

:tank: :tank: :tank: Perhaps there is a less diplomatic approach.

 

[vega]

@Ulv

its ok....
he wrote "....or from eastern Germany and just dont know what you are saying here"

that describes his thinking good enough...

 

[Kriton]

I've thought about each civ benefit and decided each has its own merits. Religious gives 2 cheap, but very important, buildings. And it gives you the ability to switch back and forth between governments. This is crucial to an attack/sue for peace strategy. Expansionist is good too. I met Zulus at the beginning once and they had 5/6 techs right away. I tried an expansionist after and got the same with 3 scouts. Sometimes you get little, though. Commerce is, like someone said, only good for the second half. But it also adds extra commerce in addition to lower corruption (I think). Militaristic is good too. You get cheap barracks right away. And not only do you have a better chance of leaders (albeit a small bonus), but units get experience quicker, meaning more elite units. Scientific is pretty straigtforward. Industrious kicks ass, if you ask me: lumberjacking, quick mines. Plus, since you need only half as many, you get extra gold in Rep/Dem gov't!

So I think you must play each civ to its strength. My least favourite is the Zulus because of their immediate GA which is useless, and the UU which is also pretty useless because you will rarely be attacked if you choose to play a winning strategy (i.e. you will be attacking).

 

[theobaldus]

Dear Ulv and Vega,

some of my comments were not exact enough as it seems.

1.Ulv, I was far from doubting Russian engangement, sacrifice and suffering in this war. It was never mentioned by Blackdragon however and therefor I saw no need to mention it either. My post was a reply to Blackdragon not a new thread.
Making racist comments and using your kind of nationalism however is probably not a smart thing to do. It doesn't make the world any better.

2.Vega, well maybe I should have made it clear from the start what I meant with the phrase "from eastern Germany" opposite to "very young".
Both options indicate that he had no chance to learn about Germany`s history. Wether because he is too young OR because his educational system did not provide him with the possibility.(From the 2000 Resistance in the Third Reich 14.000.000 lived in the DDR ).
It is not because I disrespect "Ossis" or something like that.

Regards

Theo

 

[Blackdragon]

off-topic? yes!
its my very last post bout this !
iam not speaking as a german, i speak as a european, as a mather of fact u cant blame minor then nothing bout the nazis on me (my dad was born 1949 ) but i blame on u (us-citizen) that u do nothing bout this illegal powertakeover by the republikans or this barbaric new war TODAY!!

over and out

(i dont have to keep my mouth shot just couse i live in germany, wanting or thinking this is fashistic)

 

[Thunderfire]

Anyone with a stupid ability combiation.
Scientific or Comercial combined with Expansionistic or Militaristic.
This means the Russians , English, Germans and Romans fall into
that category. Now who has the most useless civ specific unit?
The English.

 

[DaEezT]

To me it's Atztecs, Zulu & Greek because they all have UUs that are available right from the start so you either don't use them or you waste your golden age by triggering it while you only have 1 or 2 cities...

 

[Arrian]

Yeah, the English strike me as one of the worst, due to their ability combo (commercial/expanionist) and a terrible unit. The Zulu and Aztecs can be ok, I suppose, but I think you pretty much are locked into one strategy with them. I still hold out hope for the Germans and Russians, although in the games I've played the AI hasn't done very well with them.

Blackdragon - I don't blame you for the Nazis, any more than I would expect someone to blame me for slavery. As for the republicans: 1) I voted for Nader; and 2) I'm not so sure it was illegal. The election was very, very close. Both sides did some sketchy (read: dodgy) things. It was fairly ugly all 'round, but I remain unconvinced by the conspiracy theorists. I retain my right of free speech as well, at least for now (*worries about Ashcroft*).

As for the war - ALL WAR is barbaric. Does this justify it? No, of course not. I actually wrote a letter to the President and to Connecticut's two senators (both of them democrats, btw) setting forth the reasons for which I didn't think we should attack (this was a couple of weeks before we did). That being said, I still hold out hope that this could end up being a blessing in disguise for Afganistan.

You clearly have a strong dislike for America, Americans or maybe both. You should take it to the "off-topic" forum, though. Rant and Rave as much as you want over there. I don't spend my time writing diatribes about how militaristic and dangerous Germans are (I don't think that, it's just an example of some drivel I COULD WRITE).

I apologize to the rest of you for going so far off-topic myself again, but I just couldn't help it.

-Arrian

 

[Ale]

All civilizations are good, if you just know how to use them effectively. They are very well balanced. Sid Meier knows what he's doing.
Off-topic
Nothing is perfect(specially humans). Think all what we have done in our history(don't think). It's no wonder that we have almost erazed earth. We should save the world while we still have time and not argue about past.


Ps.I'm not a hippie and bugs should rule the world(i'm serious)

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Ulv, BlackDragon, and theobaldus: I've recommended you all be banned for a warning period. You saw my post, you ignored it - see you later. Continue with the discussion, gents

 

[Corrado]

There's something y'all aren't taking into account; namely, *which* civs a civ tends to start near. The seeding of starting positions tends to put all the civs that fall into a certain "group" near each other. Not always, but more often than not.

Therefore, I nominate the Egyptians as the "worst" civ. Why? They nearly always start near the Romans and the Greeks. Their UU is a souped-up Chariot that really isn't any more powerful than regular Horsemen (2/1/2). And can't really hold its own against the Greek Hoplites (3 defense) or the Roman Legions (3 attack, 3 defense). Sure, you can attack and retreat, but when you've got such a small chance of winning against the enemy, you're in serious trouble. Which means no early wars for GLs or to hamper enemy expansion. Which means being blocked in relatively easily. The only real chance you have is if you start near other empires as well, or if you can roll the Romans before they get Legions into production.

 

[jc011]

i am pretty good with culture without a religous civ, i can dominate half of the histograph usually, but i always get pushed back after my peak time, I use the Russians and i say they are good, expansionist and scientific, i tried the germans but im not a war monger, so russians work well.

 

[Atros]

Iroquis and Zulus SUCK
Expansionist is the worst attribute in the game, since its useless after a very short time in smaller map ands also useless in larger maps, cause the map will be quickl explored by comps trading their maps, so you just have to trade a world map and get the whole map explored, the stuff in the barbarian huts are not that good and there arn't that many of them around and none after a while as cities will cover the whole map due to the comps fast settling.
Anyway Iroquis is kinda a lame civilization, dunno why Firaxis put it in instead of some better known and more advanced civilizations.

And im not an american or a european im chinese so dun use blackdragon's argument of quote "problem all these rasistic postings against the iroqois nation came mostly from white us-americans ". My opinion is neutral, and it is that Iroquis SUCK.

 

[Typo]

I'm playing a game at the moment (in the mid-industrial age)as the Egyptians on Regent level I'm second while the Iroquois are kicking ass in 1st position.
Greece are third, followed closely by the Romans, Aztecs are last with about 1 city left after Iroquois raped them. Germany are wiped out mainly by me, and America was taken out first by the Iroquois in the middle ages.

I found the egyptians to be really good, their war chariots really helped me out in the ancient era(the only thing that could really stop them was greek hoplites), and being able to build temples and cathedrals easily has allowed me to quickly make cities happier etc. and reduce any cultural takeovers from my neighbors.

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Atros
Anyway Iroquis is kinda a lame civilization, dunno why Firaxis put it in instead of some better known and more advanced civilizations.
And im not an american or a european im chinese so dun use blackdragon's argument of quote "problem all these rasistic postings against the iroqois nation came mostly from white us-americans ".

OK then

That ignorant post did not come from a white us-american.

 

[Thunderfire]

Iroquis are religous & expansionist. This means they can
build temples and graneries immediatly. Combine this
with the mounted warrior the best offensive unit until
you get knights. This makes them the best rushers in the
game. Egyptian are good rushers too and religious &
industrious is the best combo in the game.