SammyKhalifa
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2003
- Messages
- 6,753
Worst Gods and Kings ability
- Thread starter andreas khan
- Start date
In a game as Sweden this past weekend I stole another religion's Great Prophet.
haha, hadnt thought of that.
chazzycat
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 3,085
that's only half the UA though...+10% GPP rate per DOF can be very useful. also it's great for any prophets (not just captured ones) - use 3 spreads first and then gift.
Honestly I'd have to go with Celts for worst ability. First pantheon is not that big of a deal, unless you are in desert or have other perfect terrain for a pantheon. Since you're starting in the forest every time, its not that important. I still usually get first religion with them via faith kills from Picts, however, that is not part of the UA.
HelloGoodbye123
Warlord
I think we disagree on everything because I disagree with you.
I have been playing sweden a lot recently, getting a great general from honor and gifting it to a religious city state is quite powerful in that you are probably going to get a religion first. Sure there is stonehedge/natural wonders but this is faster than those wonders. probably id say the average time it takes is 20 turns. while the time to build stonehedge is slower or creating a second city and placing it by a natural wonder is slower than this as well. If ppl arent careful, your religion will be out first, if not one of the first ones. Not only that, but you get a luxury on top of that, and you also get extra sight early game.
Also, when you go to war, you tend to get those great generals, I mean you already opened honor tree, so war wouldnt be as hard. going down that path and getting those great generals, can be another great tactic. for the swede to gift them away !
anyways, so far my games have gone pretty succesful to where im allied to about 5 city states very very early on. getting massive happiness, not because of gifting great generals i get from war, but sometimes 1 city state bounces to another, sometimes one city state wants say a lux a city state im allied to already has, once worked it get that 40 influence, or sometimes a city state calls for faith, and with that religious city state, it helps me get that second. but what I try to do is get my first ally, then try to kill barbs near a second one, having 2 city state allies really increases the rate at which im getting all the city states because of a domino effect.
well thats just me, and my short experience
Camarada78
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2009
- Messages
- 76
I think this Dutch power very good.
Many times if you play with small empires against bigger one you usually get 1 resource when the enemy has 2.
You can always trade one to one and still get +2 happiness.
So, every time you can trade 1 luxury resource for another one your opponent has lots of it, and still get +2.
So basically if you have a resource it potentially has +6 not +4 happiness.
Many times if you play with small empires against bigger one you usually get 1 resource when the enemy has 2.
You can always trade one to one and still get +2 happiness.
So, every time you can trade 1 luxury resource for another one your opponent has lots of it, and still get +2.
So basically if you have a resource it potentially has +6 not +4 happiness.
Petiscator
King
I totally agree with HelloGoodbye123. Sweden is really powerful, and I have been trying a similar strategy earlier - but allying with a cultural CS to rush through the early policies just like if I got an instant Terracota Army.
About the Celts, though, I'm still not convinced. Even if the +1/+2 faith does help, I WILL chop forests when I need to, so it stops to kick in after I found my religion. It is really nice when associated with the Pictish Warrior, though. I don't know, it raises the cost for the other player's pantheons, but as the AI, they might get it really quickly too.
About the Celts, though, I'm still not convinced. Even if the +1/+2 faith does help, I WILL chop forests when I need to, so it stops to kick in after I found my religion. It is really nice when associated with the Pictish Warrior, though. I don't know, it raises the cost for the other player's pantheons, but as the AI, they might get it really quickly too.
SalemSage
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2011
- Messages
- 134
The thing about the Celt's UA is that 1 or 2 faith in the immediate opening of the game is fantastic, but it rapidly drops off in usefulness.
Just like religion.
By the time you've founded a religion, Boudicca's UA has done all it needs to: Given you an early pantheon and possibly an early religion too. That's all the UA was ever intended to do. You can then feel free to improve those tiles or chop them and the loss of faith will be negligible to your strategy.
So yeah, their UA is fantastic, even if it practically goes obsolete.
Just like religion.
By the time you've founded a religion, Boudicca's UA has done all it needs to: Given you an early pantheon and possibly an early religion too. That's all the UA was ever intended to do. You can then feel free to improve those tiles or chop them and the loss of faith will be negligible to your strategy.
So yeah, their UA is fantastic, even if it practically goes obsolete.
HelloGoodbye123
Warlord
yes it does increase faith milestone.
in quick pace for example the first pantheon is founded at 6 faith, then 9, then 12, then 15, then 18 and so on.
it can get pretty bad if you get your pantheon 18 faiths into it, and everyone else already going to the first religions..(celts in the lead 36 faith towards first religion already) .. if 18 turns have passed and you got a shrine and at least 1 forest.
I dont think the bonus is suppose to be for the whole game, I see it more as a "you get first pantheon pick" and in the lead for the first religion kind of bonus. I see the celts as an ICS civ..
ceremonial burial/pagodas/cathedrals AND their UB +3 happiness!! to a building that normally does no happiness at all.
anyways I havent played celts myself, so I dont have any exciting stories lol, but i feel thats how it would mostly work out, that you get first pantheon givnig you the edge in religion
Tachii
Procrastinator
I don't like Celts' UA.
It's way too early to have a pantheon in the first 5 or 10 turns when you barely surveyed the map. And given the map bias of forests it's hardly possible to have surveyed a good amount when you got it for T10. And the fact it goes obsolete fairly quick is another concern. Unlike France which only goes obsolete as late as Industrial period, or Aztec that's dependent on warfare, this faith bonus feel utterly lame.
Is it bad? I wouldn't call it bad, but it is the worst of the bunch.
It's way too early to have a pantheon in the first 5 or 10 turns when you barely surveyed the map. And given the map bias of forests it's hardly possible to have surveyed a good amount when you got it for T10. And the fact it goes obsolete fairly quick is another concern. Unlike France which only goes obsolete as late as Industrial period, or Aztec that's dependent on warfare, this faith bonus feel utterly lame.
Is it bad? I wouldn't call it bad, but it is the worst of the bunch.
after the bitterness that was the Austria debate I'm more certain this is the case. i think we play with different interests in mind. (i also dont like knowing im giving another civ a 10% gp boost just so i can get one.) while your use of their bonus is compelling, it isnt my preference. id rather keep that GG and warmonger since i dipped into honor. and i love the citadel for land gobbling. i've found that when i ally a CS very early in the game it becomes a bit of an addiction. when im no longer ally and i lose the bonuses i feel i need to get them back and waste some resources doing it rather than keeping to task on finishing the game faster. or i dig myself a hole and realize that my city is starving without the CS food or timed that social policy wrong, etc.
i'd rather become allies the old-fashioned way, by earning it through quests. (yes, that was a nod to John Houseman, haha, for those of us old enough to remember.)
Furycrab
King
- Joined
- May 26, 2011
- Messages
- 914
Personally I find that the Dutch Polder is lamer/too situational and find that the UA is actually quite usable and quite useful except in multiplayer where anyone with a brain will just ask for more if you trade away your last resource. The Sea Beggar is damn good at smashing coastal cities.
Weakest still to me is Denmark. Longsword have this serious problem where you blink and you are done with them since it's like 1-2 techs depending on path from the upgrade. The UA is ridiculously hard to abuse on most maps and I don't get why it's not both ways (from Land to Sea as well as Sea to Land) and a Modern UU that is average at best.
Weakest still to me is Denmark. Longsword have this serious problem where you blink and you are done with them since it's like 1-2 techs depending on path from the upgrade. The UA is ridiculously hard to abuse on most maps and I don't get why it's not both ways (from Land to Sea as well as Sea to Land) and a Modern UU that is average at best.
budweiser
King of the Beers
Re: Celts. First pick for pantheons is really nice. It usually leads to the first religion if you put some effort into it. Two or three early cities in the forest will really pump out some faith. In a way, you could even skip the shrines and focus on something else for your first few builds. Picts outside your borders really tear up barbs as well.
i can see this. im not a big fan of theirs and most of this "worst UA" debate for me is only in comparison to the other GnK bonuses but i can see it being useful when you need it. it is still nice but not flat-out awful like some say. ive only played them 3 times now and they do get me to re-roll more than some because they are so tied to a specific terrain. but oddly enough i re-rolled 10 straight games with Dutch and not one start had marshes for the polders (standard resources). ive still yet to make an actual polder with william.
Another vote for the Celt UA. It's just not that good. Sure it can get you a pantheon but it won't make you a religion powerhouse. You are also not guaranteed to benefit early from this UA as the best city spot may very well be away from forests.
HelloGoodbye123
Warlord
you know, you can give the general away AND do the old fashion quests.. usually my first ally reachest 200 influence. They arent hard to keep, sometimes the religious city state says "I call for faith" when itself is giving it to me.. lol or barbarians near their cities.
