Worst UU - France's Musketeers

[Calouste]

England should have a special longbow unit. That's the main reason why I don't like each civilization having only one unique unit, I think they should have at least two, in different eras.

A fairly large number of Civilizations only existed or were relevant in one era, so having two UUs in different eras would mean having to make things up.

 

[LegioCorvus]

Sorry to be late to the party, but the weakest?

I love France's UU!

I usually get them right around the time of my third major war, and they have no natural enemies (edit: at the time) along with being the strongest unit on the board. The only disadvantage is their short length of domination, but with 2 move, that is not an issue. It's practically easy mode as I barely need unit diversity while using them.

Combine that with the awesome war traits France usually gets (2 leaders Charismatic, one Charismatic/Organized) and not only do you excel at war for a long period, but you get a short period where you absolutely dominate.

I can see how that can be a problem in games of the highest difficulty where the other nations have a huge tech lead, but even then they have their uses.

Now the Celts have a week UU. Sure, you only need bronze to build it instead of iron, but that's not amazing. Even then, their only advantage is free hill defense bonus upgrades, which I don't even care enough about to remember the name for, which every Celtic unit gets for free from their mediocre UB, the Dun. Except for maps where there simply is no iron for anyone, it might as well be that the Celts don't even have a UU.

 

[mechaerik]

Muskets aren't the strongest unit at that time; Knights are.

 

[KeloGBites]

But at the same time Knights do have a counter, Muskets..not so much (except if the AI reaches Gunpowder as well and actually promotes Pinch). Knights, have 2 counters..usually the reason I rarely use them.

 

[LegioCorvus]

Muskets aren't the strongest unit at that time; Knights are.

Not if you play smart.

Knights get no defensive bonuses. With both the musketeers & knights having 2 moves, it's easy to get defensive bonuses such as hills, rivers, or trees on any turn the knights would attack you. Ideally, the only time you would attack knights is when they're guarding a city defense, at which point they no longer become the biggest threat. (Usually longbowmen).

Add to that the bonuses of being charismatic (2 French leaders) and you can easily promote the musketeers to formation in no time. Remember, formation is the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. The cake is the defensive bonuses along with the maneuverability of the knights and 90% the strength.

Knights also have units to counter them at that point. The only counter to the musketeer is the musketeer, or maybe some units with pinch (at which point the opponent also has musketmen). To be fair though, if you don't have a tech lead, then most of your units aren't going to dominate.

Like I said, I love musketeers. I usually never beeline for gunpowder, except when I'm playing as the French, as for a good period of time there I can absolutely dominate. Oh, and upgrading a legion of musketeers with good promotions to riflemen is so unbelievably satisfying.

 

[mechaerik]

I just stated the fact that Knights have a higher base strength. Besides, Charismatic works on the Knights as well.

I generally prefer Macemen anyways, as they get City Raider promos. I generally pick up Steel from Liberalism, so it doesn't really matter; Cannons + Anything can tear your opponents to pieces if you get them early enough.

 

[zerocold]

What i do is to build up a lot of macemen, and then upgrade them to riflemen/musketeers, then i get riflemen with city raiding

But i must confess that musketters don't last long, there are not a lot of turns from powder to rifle, still yet the french unit is special due it extra movement.

 

[Silu]

What i do is to build up a lot of macemen, and then upgrade them to riflemen/musketeers, then i get riflemen with city raiding

What mod are you playing?

 

[zerocold]

Well macemen to riflemen is possible, not sure if can be possible with musketters

 

[TheLazyHase]

Well macemen to riflemen is possible, not sure if can be possible with musketters

It's not.

By the way, CR rifleman are not that good. It's not wasted unit, but it's not some uber unit.

 

[zerocold]

What is CR?

Riflemen surely are great units, specially the upgraded ones, if you amass a lot of warriors/axemen/macemen and upgrade them to riflemen, you get a nice army

Is better than do cavalry anyway, IMO

Ah i figured it out CR= city raiding, nup, they are quite good

 

[TheLazyHase]

Is better than do cavalry anyway, IMO

It depend on what you do. Cavalry is 2 movement and can actually do something against machinegun. Cavalry / airship is something that can destroy civilisations fast.

City raide rrifleman are not that stronger than combat rifleman, that's why stockpiling CR3 maceman is not mandatory for good city bashing.

 

[Silu]

What is CR?

Riflemen surely are great units, specially the upgraded ones, if you amass a lot of warriors/axemen/macemen and upgrade them to riflemen, you get a nice army

Is better than do cavalry anyway, IMO

Ah i figured it out CR= city raiding, nup, they are quite good

If you're interested about in-depth discussion of this, check out this thread. Consensus is that building maces just for the sake of upgrading is a huge waste.

 

[zerocold]

Well, they saved my empire's ass a couple of times

 

[Monsterzuma]

But i must confess that musketters don't last long, there are not a lot of turns from powder to rifle,

Trading/researching Metal casting, Machinery, Guilds, Banking, Printing Press, Replaceable Parts and Rifling tends to take quite a few turns in my experience.

Actually the main advantage of Muskets is exactly that they are a draftable unit that is available quite some time before rifles are. It's particularly interesting to amass them while you are on the way towards Rifling.

Their draftability is what sets them apart from the expensive Knight unit. Using a Globe Theatre city they can be drafted almost indefinitely, and ever draft occurs at half the food cost of an equivalent whip.

The problem with the Musketeers is that when they are used in combination with Rifles (or any kind of siege), their extra movement goes to waste, so you might aswell use regular muskets or Janissaries/Oromos.

 

[zerocold]

Trading/researching Metal casting, Machinery, Guilds, Banking, Printing Press, Replaceable Parts and Rifling tends to take quite a few turns in my experience.

Can you research powder before all that?

It don't take a lot of turns, in my games, probably because i like to research first in infrastructure, to rise my army, I'm not sure if you can research powder before all these

Another reason could be that after i get a decent quantity of banks, musketters are already obsolete

I will probably try out a muskete rush, wonder if is possible

 

[KeloGBites]

the first four come before it, but banking is often overlooked unless you have a good Mercantilism set-up or a very high commerce city. Muskets alone, or with medieval siege seems only so-so. But. With a Steel Liberalism sling, you can do some very very major damage.

 

[Monsterzuma]

Can you research powder before all that?

Yes, it's what you get when you beeline Liberalism, take Nationhood, tech Gunpowder and start drafting right away. It can get you a large army of gunpowder units a quite an early point in the game, much earlier than rifles. It's really only recommended for use with Oromo's/Janissaries, though, as musketmen in their own right aren't all that good.

 

[KeloGBites]

Skipping Metal Casting though? I'd prefer to have that, 25% production boost early-on is amazing. Also wouldn't a Steel-sling be better with Oromo/Janissaries then simply Nationalism which lately seems to be easy to trade for.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Gunpowder can be had immediately after education or guilds. You do not need both.

An alternate route is to head to steel instead of rifling. Rifles eat a lot of attrition if you don't spy revolt or bombard, even against longbows. CR II cannons (which by the way you don't have to upgrade to attain) do not have any trouble redlining longbows or any other medieval defender at high odds after they bombard (ignoring walls/castles in the process ----> you need 9 accuracy trebs to bombard for TWO turns just to clear ONE castle. 4 cannons or so do the same thing in 1 turn). Cannons also defend just fine against everything but cuirassers (which can be countered by pikes + defensive terrain) or better.

Rifles or cavalry make more sense if you lack iron however.