Worst wonder?

What is the worst world wonder?

  • Angkor Wat

    Votes: 24 4.6%
  • Broadway

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Chichen Itza

    Votes: 181 34.8%
  • Cristo Redentor

    Votes: 18 3.5%
  • Hollywood

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Mausoleum of Maussollos

    Votes: 9 1.7%
  • Notre Dame

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Rock 'n' Roll

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Shwedagon Paya

    Votes: 25 4.8%
  • Stonehenge

    Votes: 6 1.2%
  • The Colossus

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The Eiffel Tower

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • The Hagia Sophia

    Votes: 36 6.9%
  • The Hanging Gardens

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The Parthenon

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • The Pentagon

    Votes: 5 1.0%
  • The Space Elevator

    Votes: 113 21.7%
  • The Spiral Minaret

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • The Statue of Zeus

    Votes: 11 2.1%
  • The Taj Mahal

    Votes: 7 1.3%
  • The Temple of Artemis

    Votes: 10 1.9%
  • The Three Gorges Dam

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • University of Sankore

    Votes: 4 0.8%
  • Versailles

    Votes: 12 2.3%
  • The Internet

    Votes: 44 8.5%

  • Total voters
    520
Mausoleum of Maussollos for me. I almost never use Golden Ages, (Other than with the Taj Mahal) and don't care much for Great Artists, so it's basically a culture building for me.
Not using extremely powerful features does not rationally qualify them as the worst in the game.
I did specify "for me", I didn't say that it's for everyone. Also, it's not that I don't use Golden Ages, I just don't use them enough to feel that this wonder is really worth while. For most of my Great People I just feel that there are enough other good uses for them.

For example, I like to have them join my cities as super-specialists. I find that stacking 4-5 Great Generals on a city with West Point and the Red Cross can make super-soldiers that can break even the toughest of defenses, or defend cities against even the largest of armies, so I don't like to use them for Golden Ages. The same goes for almost every great person there is in different circumstances. Golden Ages give you short term (or turn, hur hur hur) gains without long term rewards, having your Great Person join a city or produce their special building might seem poor in the short term, but in the long term it can really boost your game, especially with the right civics. (such as Representation)

We're really comparing Keynesian theory to Monetarism theory here, but I manage to play Civ 4 better at high levels (such as Emperor) when focusing on a specialist-heavy playing style rather than a Golden Age heavy one.
 
To add to what Lymond said about the Chicken Pizza, 9+ times out of ten the best defence in this game is to use your roads to ensure collateral intitiative and destroy the enemy stack in the field. Even an AI is smart enough to bombard defences away when it needs to unless you kill their seige first, which would require hammers spent on mounted rather than wonders.
 
If you've got Stone and/or IND and want some extra GProP's, CI isn't a horrific waste of hammers.

If you've got Marble and/or IND and want some GEP's, HS isn't a horrific waste of hammers. It's got a role to play in a pre-PL GE farm.

Both of the above, in uncommon circumstances, can be the key to building the AP. And with CoL, Theo, Math and no Monarchy, a GPro bulbs CS, potentially in the BC's. If you're not a cultural melting pot with Temples galore (or the food to feed the Priests), Wonders are your source of GPP's.

Their effects are borderline worthless to me, far as I'm concerned they're food for NE.

SE is the obvious one to me, not only because of its worthless effect, but also because it comes at a time when +2 GSciP's means nothing - and if it does net you an extra GSci, an economy that can build the SE is going to get practically zero benefit.

Someone, somewhere, will get a late Culture Win because of a GAge from a SE-generated Marie Curie. But we're talking monkeys typing Shakespeare.
 
I find it funny about: Oh my god, Hagia Sopha is soooo bad. In fact, it is perhaps indicator of the user lack of imageuhnashun. Certain cases, Hagia Sophia has its uses. Iggymnnr loves this wonder in his settler space games. I love it occasionally when I capture tons of lands in a short period of time and I see most are still unimproved. That happens. I also like it to accompany my GEngineer city so I can get a fast GEngineer with almost 100% odd (certainty is measure of a strong strategy) for a good corp. space game.

Hey, I have seen Snaaty (that guy for your information is a godly player; don't dare gainsays him) selfteching DR...YES Divine Right to benefit of the Spiral Minaret for his huge empire as that wonder is inflated in worth along the empire size. Yeah, I'm sure some will say...hey why not just win the game with that huge empire. Well, always winning military or something of that ilk is also proof of an unimaginative mind.

Shwedagon Paya is so useless...Oh mah gawd. BIC comes and shows us some nifty use of that wonder along gold/ind (because weaker wonders and stronger with modifiers) to get a fast Theocracy and strong 5 XP cho-ko-nus early in the game. Theology wasn't accessible, so sometimes one must be imaginative.

So, please people, stop jerking some unfelt nonsense and stick with "Chicken it'sya and SE are bad" since those two wonders are really truly proven bad.
 
I think we have a disconnect here between people who are taking this as "worst wonder strategically, when your goal is to have the highest-scoring/fastest-finishing/HOF-type victory", and those who are taking this as "worst wonder for my playstyle".

The utility of CR and the Spiritual trait is in how gamey you play it. And if CR showed up earlier, it'd basically be a third trait for any non-Spiritual civ.

Sounds about right. I hadn't considered doing that tactic with the Spiritual trait, either, but I still think it's too gamey, regardless of whether it's via Cristo Rendentor or Spiritual.

But you're right, it would essentially be an extra civ trait if it came early. I don't know how powerful an extra civ trait would be in Civ4, but if it's like Civ3, an extra civ trait would be a pretty strong bonus.
 
I like one Chicken Pizza with a diet coke. It's not the worst wonder. In fact, it's my favorite dish when playing Civ 4 :crazyeye:
 
Eiffel Tower is nice for late game cultural victories (I did this a few times, but probably only on prince, maybe one monarch game). Stonehenge is cheap with IND or stone, so on lower levels it is probably not too bad in some situations. Its best before date has been doubled or tripled by the BtS change and charismatic leaders or those with a monument UB certainly have an incentive to go for it.
As I am now trying to consistently beat Emperor I seem to have less need for wonders than ever before. (I overrated them big time when starting on Noble/Prince which hurt my gameplay.) The really good ones are all early, IMO, and unless one is really lucky with the maps, traits, AI opponents combo one cannot really go for more than two or three (and for me these would be Oracle, Library, Pyramids, but I just started BtS and used to play Warlords, so I have not really thought about stuff like Zeus statue or Mausoleum). Of the later ones I will try the Taj, but all the other ones only if I have not enough serious business to attend to
 
Stonehenge isn't weak in itself, it's more that the prerequisites to make it attractive rarely apply on higher levels.
You need a decent sized empire to be worth the investment and building Stonehenge instead of early blocking settlers makes this harder. Even if you manage to block the AIs, barbarians may limit one's ability to expand safely.
There is also the risk that an AI will beat you to it. At this stage of the game, failgold usually isn't adequate compensation and chances are you needed to make some economic compromises to even have a shot.
 
Chicken it'sya is an AI wonder. nuff said.

Oh, I don't know. It's pretty fun to build it in cities bordering other human players in "coop" multiplayer :lol:. Sistine is obviously the best for that though.

For example, I like to have them join my cities as super-specialists.

A settled specialists will never, ever catch even a mid-game golden age...even more so if you aren't SPI and therefore use the GA to avoid multi-turn anarchy.

I find that stacking 4-5 Great Generals on a city with West Point and the Red Cross can make super-soldiers that can break even the toughest of defenses, or defend cities against even the largest of armies, so I don't like to use them for Golden Ages.

We're not playing civ V. You can't use great generals for golden ages! Also, west point and especially red cross are a waste of time. Medic promos don't stack so 1 super medic is good enough, while the massive :hammers: investment on west point for a few extra xp is a joke in an era where you can already mow everything down with siege + anything covering it, or draft rifles, or nukes.

Golden Ages give you short term (or turn, hur hur hur) gains without long term rewards, having your Great Person join a city or produce their special building might seem poor in the short term, but in the long term it can really boost your game, especially with the right civics.

Let's say a golden age adds 100-150 :science: and 50 :gold: (very small amount for the mid-late game when you'd consider burning one). Between the bonus :commerce: and :hammers:, you're likely looking at an instant 800-1200 :science: and 400 :gold:. A settled great scientist in a 200% research city under representation would take, at the fastest, 45 turns to match that with the 800, and 60 turns to match it if you're closer to 1200.

But it doesn't stop there. If the GA saves you any anarchy, then it would take your settled GS in an oxford supercapitol with representation 80+ turns to catch a comparatively pathetic golden age.

Settling in general stops being a valid consideration after the very early game. Just raw :science: from bulbing would take around 50-75 turns for a settled rep scientist in an oxford city to catch.

But it gets worse for your settling theory, because so far we haven't even considered present value, or what the :science: earlier means to an empire. Bulbing and GA both unlock benfits sooner, such as that oxford that is often not even worth building sooner, and gets you to techs that improve your tile yields and civics that raise your output even more sooner. After you're in the early-mid ADs, a settled great person is unlikely to beat out alternatives even if the game continues on to very late techs such as space. It's not good play to settle other than very early, and it's strictly awful play to settle in the renaissance instead of founding corporations and using them for golden ages.

Hey, I have seen Snaaty (that guy for your information is a godly player; don't dare gainsays him) selfteching DR...YES Divine Right

The hidden benefit to getting DR first is your ability to trade **** the AI *after* you build the wonders you care about, since they often leave it alone until very late. He got more from it than just the wonder most likely.

I think we have a disconnect here between people who are taking this as "worst wonder strategically, when your goal is to have the highest-scoring/fastest-finishing/HOF-type victory", and those who are taking this as "worst wonder for my playstyle".

Space elevator is so bad that it does nothing in 99.9% of games for any playstyle, unless one's playstyle is to deliberately make poor choices. Pursuing it is an active detriment to a space race finish date.
 
Stonehenge and Eiffel tower would be great in classical or renaissance times, I think, but they're not great in the eras they're in. Does anyone ever build Stonehenge?

I used to build it when I wanted my prophet to shrine my holy city but I've realized that going for academy first is far better :) As for Eifel tower I really like it ! Saves a lot of hammers if You have many cities ;)
 
Stonehenge and Eiffel tower would be great in classical or renaissance times, I think, but they're not great in the eras they're in. Does anyone ever build Stonehenge?

I sometimes build Eiffel Tower for the cinematics if I'm in control but it's probably not optimal play. It provides culture, early broadcast towers and happiness. It isn't useless, just quite weak. I'd never build it instead of Broadway, Hollywood, etc. Those wonders can get you 30-40 GPT.

Stonehenge is cheap and you get what you pay for. If you have Stone and/or are Industrious it can be good. Especially for Charismatic leaders. Monument UB Civ's also benefit - it could make Zara even more annoying. I think you misexpressed yourself - delaying Stonehenge until classical or renaissance would put it in the running with Space Elevator. I sometimes go for it but usually not.

Actually, an early CR would be better than the Spiritual trait - switch civics every turn? Heck, I might run Serfdom 2/3 of the time and do one turn slavery when I want to whip. Early CR would be a must-have wonder, even for Spiritual civs.
 
In vanilla, Notre-Dame was a terrible and terrible wonder. Only one happy per city for that investment...come on. At least, in BTS we got 2 happies...but personally I would like three. Anyways, doesn't matter as Engineering is an AI tech and by the time I usually get it ,the wonder is gone.

Funny to see Notre getting no votes as bad wonder while MoM get some. Seriously.
 
In vanilla, Notre-Dame was a terrible and terrible wonder. Only one happy per city for that investment...come on. At least, in BTS we got 2 happies...but personally I would like three. Anyways, doesn't matter as Engineering is an AI tech and by the time I usually get it ,the wonder is gone.

Funny to see Notre getting no votes as bad wonder while MoM get some. Seriously.

I can't believe I never noticed that! Zero votes for Notre Dame - I can't remember the last time I built it! Because, of course you're right, MOM is substanitally better than Notre Dame. In RFC, where there are more golden ages, MOM is a very powerful wonder. It can, in fact, be key to getting a domination victory in RFC.

I've always liked this about these polls, some of the answers stun you. I've seen people arguing that the Fast Worker and War Chariot are worthless UU's.
 
I, while I never play to an actual victory, basically play a level until I am able to in multiple games be the greatest in all aspects.
However, even when I am losing, I am still ahead of the AI in tech. Not light years, mind you, but ahead. I still play at a fairly low level.

To be honest, i don't remember the last time i lost while being ahead in tech. This almost never happens, i play big maps so usually i haven't any AP issue ( and rarely onu lost as well) and if am ahead i can prevent a culture win.

I lost often, but each time i manage a lead, i win, the difficult part for me is precisely to manage to have this lead.
 
I don't understand why everyone thinks Chichen Itza is so useless. Given the fact that I'm constantly attacked, I need all the defence bonuses I can get, and it still provides culture and GPP.

You have to improve your diplomacy. I'm often very weak military but i am very rarely attacked. Bribe warmongers and backstabbers against each others, join some phony wars against a distant hated opponent. Give them some free techs, nevermind. Pick the more popular religion. If the more popular religion is different that your powerful neighbors's religion, i can even stay in paganism until liberalism :lol:
 
I voted for Internet, because it comes in so damn late and it usually gets me Divine Right or some other useless tech I don't need.
 
I voted for Internet, because it comes in so damn late and it usually gets me Divine Right or some other useless tech I don't need.

This depends on your level of play. At lower levels (or if you're able to establish a good tech lead) it is useless. I've seen games where the Internet was key to winning. There's an old post in here of someone getting like 12 techs from it. Also, if you have sufficient passive espionage, you can see what other AI's are researching and research something else.

@Aggressivewimp - the problem with Chicken Pizza is twofold. First, if you're using your city walls and cultural defenses to protect you you have big problems. The AI will pillage your land. The second problem is that collateral damage is key to most battles and by waiting in your cities you're giving the AI that advantage. Besides, for the cost of the wonder how many Longbows could you create?

The only advantage I see is the AI stupidly bombarding defenses with 2 siege weapons and not attacking while you rush troops to the front.
 
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