WOTM 04 - Final Spoiler
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WOTM 04 - Final Spoiler
- Thread starter Gyathaar
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Nice map, I hope next GOTM will provide more challenge 
Continuation from previous spoiler
Wars:
470 AD - 684 AD: Incan Empire, left one small city on continent and two on the western island.
716 AD - 845 AD: Carthagian Empire, he capitulates with twoislands cities on western island.
855 AD - 950 AD: Indian Empire, he capitulates with oneisland city on main continent.
During the last centuries I started counting tiles and realised that a domination victory was achievable. So, I increased the culture slider to fill in some gaps in the land, built culture in close-to-expand cities, switched to food in close-to-grow cities and settled a couple of new cities. The final score increased with 30k during the final ten turns. The final/base score ratio decreased from 77 to 76 during these turns.
Units, Buildings, Research and Great People
I liked this map, because the start was very favourable but mid/end game was tricky. The distance involved meant that it took 25 turns for units produced in Rome to reach the front. It's very demanding to predict what units are needed in 25 turns. I ended up with producing mainly catapults and a few mounted units. Newly captured cities close to the front produced a lot of useful units though, which is rather new to me.
Again, thanks to the W/GOTM team for providing maps for us
Continuation from previous spoiler
Wars:
470 AD - 684 AD: Incan Empire, left one small city on continent and two on the western island.
716 AD - 845 AD: Carthagian Empire, he capitulates with two
855 AD - 950 AD: Indian Empire, he capitulates with one
During the last centuries I started counting tiles and realised that a domination victory was achievable. So, I increased the culture slider to fill in some gaps in the land, built culture in close-to-expand cities, switched to food in close-to-grow cities and settled a couple of new cities. The final score increased with 30k during the final ten turns. The final/base score ratio decreased from 77 to 76 during these turns.
Units, Buildings, Research and Great People
Spoiler :
I liked this map, because the start was very favourable but mid/end game was tricky. The distance involved meant that it took 25 turns for units produced in Rome to reach the front. It's very demanding to predict what units are needed in 25 turns. I ended up with producing mainly catapults and a few mounted units. Newly captured cities close to the front produced a lot of useful units though, which is rather new to me.
Again, thanks to the W/GOTM team for providing maps for us
Grrr, Erkon, you beat me by four turns... 
But i got a better score.
Entry class: Contender
Game status: Domination Victory for Rome
Game date: 995 AD
Base score: 3609
Final score: 286556
A really fun map, a great Christmas present! Many thanks to the GOTM staff!
When doing some after-analysis two things strike me:
1. A good player can finish a domination much earlier than what I did. I had several unnecessary delays. I suspect we will see some awesome scores.
2. This game can probably be played and won as a one-city challenge. Research up to IW, maybe even construction and literature (for cats and Heroic Epic). Then build only units and raze, raze, raze...
I might even go back and give the occ a try.
Continuing on my first spoiler found here desribing my game up to 290 AD.
With Brennus gone and Mansa made a vassal I now shifted my attention to Washington. The Americans had built the Pyramids on the far side of their empire and I really wanted those to give the extra boost to my specialist economy from running representation.
War on America (370 AD - 588 AD)
A brief period of peace...
War on India (692 - 855 AD)
War on Carthage (875 - 960 AD)
War on the Incans (980-995 AD)
But i got a better score.
Entry class: Contender
Game status: Domination Victory for Rome
Game date: 995 AD
Base score: 3609
Final score: 286556
A really fun map, a great Christmas present! Many thanks to the GOTM staff!
When doing some after-analysis two things strike me:
1. A good player can finish a domination much earlier than what I did. I had several unnecessary delays. I suspect we will see some awesome scores.
2. This game can probably be played and won as a one-city challenge. Research up to IW, maybe even construction and literature (for cats and Heroic Epic). Then build only units and raze, raze, raze...
I might even go back and give the occ a try.
Continuing on my first spoiler found here desribing my game up to 290 AD.
With Brennus gone and Mansa made a vassal I now shifted my attention to Washington. The Americans had built the Pyramids on the far side of their empire and I really wanted those to give the extra boost to my specialist economy from running representation.
War on America (370 AD - 588 AD)
Spoiler :
)
A brief period of peace...
Spoiler :
War on India (692 - 855 AD)
Spoiler :
War on Carthage (875 - 960 AD)
Spoiler :
War on the Incans (980-995 AD)
Spoiler :
magpie_robert
Chieftain
Following on from the last post, nothing much happened for the next 1000 years.
Gradually, I rebuilt my economy consolidating the cities I already had, only adding a couple to use unworked tiles. With CoL in 692 AD, I build my Forbidden Palace in Gergovia which was a good production city and furthest from Rome.
With Chemistry, Steel and Biology, I managed finally to get some techs before the AI. I traded these and closed the educational gap. I appeared to be researching faster than anyone else now so I decided to try for a SS victory.
Rome completed my Apollo program in 1549 AD before anyone else. I though I would complete the ship breaking my record for year and score. I hadnt bargained on the Hannibal/HC partnership DoW in 1563. (HC was Hannibal's vassal)
Although they did not take any cities, I was defensively weak and they caused a lot of infrastructure damage by pillaging mines and clams around Rome. It seemed like a lot of time to get peace actually it was only 17 turns.
By the time Id rebuilt, Id fallen behind in techs again and others were building their ships. I used the Internet in 1662 to catch up. In the end, India got there first in1680 AD. I still had three parts to complete.
Still, this is the closest Ive come to victory on Emperor level so although Im disappointed, Im also quite proud
Entry class: Contender
Game status: Spaceship Loss to India
Game date: 1680 AD
Base score: 3506
Final score: 5607
Gradually, I rebuilt my economy consolidating the cities I already had, only adding a couple to use unworked tiles. With CoL in 692 AD, I build my Forbidden Palace in Gergovia which was a good production city and furthest from Rome.
With Chemistry, Steel and Biology, I managed finally to get some techs before the AI. I traded these and closed the educational gap. I appeared to be researching faster than anyone else now so I decided to try for a SS victory.
Rome completed my Apollo program in 1549 AD before anyone else. I though I would complete the ship breaking my record for year and score. I hadnt bargained on the Hannibal/HC partnership DoW in 1563. (HC was Hannibal's vassal)
Although they did not take any cities, I was defensively weak and they caused a lot of infrastructure damage by pillaging mines and clams around Rome. It seemed like a lot of time to get peace actually it was only 17 turns.
By the time Id rebuilt, Id fallen behind in techs again and others were building their ships. I used the Internet in 1662 to catch up. In the end, India got there first in1680 AD. I still had three parts to complete.
Still, this is the closest Ive come to victory on Emperor level so although Im disappointed, Im also quite proud
Entry class: Contender
Game status: Spaceship Loss to India
Game date: 1680 AD
Base score: 3506
Final score: 5607
RobertTheBruce
King
Diplomatic Victory 1420AD
Early game: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4899917&postcount=5
I beeline to Mass Media trading with Mansa Musa (a tech monster) and Asoka (holding his own). Washington is an ally but falling behind in the tech race. I fought two meaningless wars with Carthage whenever Asola would ask me to come to his aid. I did capture a Carthagian city (previously barbarian) in the middle of America which I gave to the Americans.
Techs to Mass Media
In 1322, I have finished Mass Media. Unfortunately, I don't have an engineer to build the U.N., any cities with high production, or the votes to be elected Secretary General. Mansa and Washington love me (+18 ratings with common religion) and Asoka is at +9. Hannibal was going to be my opponent in the election. He had captured a few Indian cities in earlier wars but Washington had somehow grown to be larger than Hannibal. When Mansa researched Biology, I knew my plan had some serious problems. Mansa quickly became the largest civ, followed by Washington, Hannibal, Asoka, me, and H.C.
Great People
The new plan:
As I approached Mass Media, I started building an army of grenadiers, rifles and trebuchets. Hannibal is falling behind Washington in population and my plan was to win with Washington, Asoka, and Mansa's votes. All three love me and hate Hannibal and H.C. I plan to attack H.C., take his lands, and immediately lose all the ex-Peruvian cities to Hannibal to boost his population. I can't directly trade with Hannibal without losing Asoka's votes but I can lose a war.
I've never tried giving away cities to win before so its a first try. I declare on H.C. in 1270 and send the start of my S.O.D. to take his colonies on the southern island. I quickly sweep through those cities (H.C. has cavalry but not rifles), promote some of my units, and get my first G.G. (I may have the latest date for first G.G.). H.C. discovers Chemistry and I have to fight some sea battles before landing my stack with reinforcements from Rome near Cuzco. I joined another war with Hannibal at Asoka's request to get to +10 while taking the colonies. After taking Cuzco and Macchu Pichu, I run into Hannibal's stack of rifles and knights. (Don't you have some Indian cities you should be taking?) I trade Nationalism for a temporary peace treaty since my stack is small and tired. 10 turns later, H.C. is reduced to 2 cities and becomes Hannibal's vassal, restarting war with Hannibal.
The wheels fall off the bus
I revolted to Universal Sufferage, Emancipation, and State Property in 1338 and with the help of a golden age I finally complete the U.N. in 1392. I am at war with Hannibal and he should be the largest civ after I lose the ex-Peruvian cities to him. Asoka is already at war with Hannibal and I bribe Washington into declaring as well. Hannibal won't take undefended cities! He keeps attacking my stack of rifles instead. I finally send my stack on a death march to the northern shore to board galleons. Three units boarded a galleon near the southern shore but the rest of my stack is destroyed. Hannibal finally starts taking the Peruvian cites. He razes Macchu Pichu, the second largest city and I sue for peace to give the other cities before he screws up again. He will take Cuzco but none of the island colony cities.
Before I surrendered Cuzco, the first U.N. election was held and Asoka votes for Mansa despite our much better relationship and he becomes Secretary General. After surrendering Cuzco, the first vote is for victory and I get a kick in the stomach. Asoka now decides to vote for me and I am 20 votes short of victory. If I had just held the Peruvian cities the game would be over. Adding insult to injury, Hannibal is rapidly losing votes despite the new cities. I suddenly realize that he is massively whipping his cities to fend off invasions by America and India. Aaah, the new AI is messing with my plans.
Final techs
1370 Steel (trade)
1399 Artillery (trade) Thank you Asoka
1400 Military Tradition (trade)
1415 Steam Power (trade)
1417 Rocketry
The final war
I bribed America and India to stop their wars when I realized the whipping problem. Then I thought, whatever, and redeclare war on Carthage. I land my new stack of doom (3 rifles, 2 artillery, and a grenadier) near Cuzco. India with declare war for free and I bribe America into the war again. I farm the southern island, take a few cities, win the next election for Secretary General and begin the final push. I take most of the ex-Peruvian cities and the Americans capture Kerkuoane. This is enough to push me over the threshold for a 1420 diplomatic victory.
Without the great engineer, I'm too late to win the fastest award if someone else is trying. It was a good game and I learned a lot about the diplomatic end game. I still choose allies too early in diplo games but I'll learn. The stupid, fake war with Carthage cost me about 20 turns but the engineer was a killer.
Mansa Musa is running away with the tech game, his workers are building oil wells and Assembly Line is the only Industrial tech he doesn't have. If I didn't win a diplomatic victory, he was going to launch in the mid-1500's.
Early game: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4899917&postcount=5
I beeline to Mass Media trading with Mansa Musa (a tech monster) and Asoka (holding his own). Washington is an ally but falling behind in the tech race. I fought two meaningless wars with Carthage whenever Asola would ask me to come to his aid. I did capture a Carthagian city (previously barbarian) in the middle of America which I gave to the Americans.
Techs to Mass Media
Spoiler :
In 1322, I have finished Mass Media. Unfortunately, I don't have an engineer to build the U.N., any cities with high production, or the votes to be elected Secretary General. Mansa and Washington love me (+18 ratings with common religion) and Asoka is at +9. Hannibal was going to be my opponent in the election. He had captured a few Indian cities in earlier wars but Washington had somehow grown to be larger than Hannibal. When Mansa researched Biology, I knew my plan had some serious problems. Mansa quickly became the largest civ, followed by Washington, Hannibal, Asoka, me, and H.C.
Great People
Spoiler :
The new plan:
As I approached Mass Media, I started building an army of grenadiers, rifles and trebuchets. Hannibal is falling behind Washington in population and my plan was to win with Washington, Asoka, and Mansa's votes. All three love me and hate Hannibal and H.C. I plan to attack H.C., take his lands, and immediately lose all the ex-Peruvian cities to Hannibal to boost his population. I can't directly trade with Hannibal without losing Asoka's votes but I can lose a war.
I've never tried giving away cities to win before so its a first try. I declare on H.C. in 1270 and send the start of my S.O.D. to take his colonies on the southern island. I quickly sweep through those cities (H.C. has cavalry but not rifles), promote some of my units, and get my first G.G. (I may have the latest date for first G.G.). H.C. discovers Chemistry and I have to fight some sea battles before landing my stack with reinforcements from Rome near Cuzco. I joined another war with Hannibal at Asoka's request to get to +10 while taking the colonies. After taking Cuzco and Macchu Pichu, I run into Hannibal's stack of rifles and knights. (Don't you have some Indian cities you should be taking?) I trade Nationalism for a temporary peace treaty since my stack is small and tired. 10 turns later, H.C. is reduced to 2 cities and becomes Hannibal's vassal, restarting war with Hannibal.
The wheels fall off the bus
I revolted to Universal Sufferage, Emancipation, and State Property in 1338 and with the help of a golden age I finally complete the U.N. in 1392. I am at war with Hannibal and he should be the largest civ after I lose the ex-Peruvian cities to him. Asoka is already at war with Hannibal and I bribe Washington into declaring as well. Hannibal won't take undefended cities! He keeps attacking my stack of rifles instead. I finally send my stack on a death march to the northern shore to board galleons. Three units boarded a galleon near the southern shore but the rest of my stack is destroyed. Hannibal finally starts taking the Peruvian cites. He razes Macchu Pichu, the second largest city and I sue for peace to give the other cities before he screws up again. He will take Cuzco but none of the island colony cities.
Before I surrendered Cuzco, the first U.N. election was held and Asoka votes for Mansa despite our much better relationship and he becomes Secretary General. After surrendering Cuzco, the first vote is for victory and I get a kick in the stomach. Asoka now decides to vote for me and I am 20 votes short of victory. If I had just held the Peruvian cities the game would be over. Adding insult to injury, Hannibal is rapidly losing votes despite the new cities. I suddenly realize that he is massively whipping his cities to fend off invasions by America and India. Aaah, the new AI is messing with my plans.
Final techs
1370 Steel (trade)
1399 Artillery (trade) Thank you Asoka
1400 Military Tradition (trade)
1415 Steam Power (trade)
1417 Rocketry
The final war
I bribed America and India to stop their wars when I realized the whipping problem. Then I thought, whatever, and redeclare war on Carthage. I land my new stack of doom (3 rifles, 2 artillery, and a grenadier) near Cuzco. India with declare war for free and I bribe America into the war again. I farm the southern island, take a few cities, win the next election for Secretary General and begin the final push. I take most of the ex-Peruvian cities and the Americans capture Kerkuoane. This is enough to push me over the threshold for a 1420 diplomatic victory.
Without the great engineer, I'm too late to win the fastest award if someone else is trying. It was a good game and I learned a lot about the diplomatic end game. I still choose allies too early in diplo games but I'll learn. The stupid, fake war with Carthage cost me about 20 turns but the engineer was a killer.
Mansa Musa is running away with the tech game, his workers are building oil wells and Assembly Line is the only Industrial tech he doesn't have. If I didn't win a diplomatic victory, he was going to launch in the mid-1500's.
Well continue from my previous post.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4911597&postcount=29
Interesting thin,
I got next GS 564AD and took paper from it.
Traded it around and got maps for it, as result
I got around the globe the same year.
I wander how in other games AI got around in BC time? IN my game they never open borders to each other to do that.
580AD I declared on Masta.
Research wize i went after Nationalism.
885AD Mata become my vassal.
Revolted to it 890 AD and drafted some Maces.
940 declared on Washington.
On side note, I went after Liberalism then and as result on my own undecisivness lost it by 5 turns.
Got GM inted of expected GS and was waiting for GS insted of ry=un dificit research.
1075AD Washinton capitulated.
1135AD Capac got liberalism, darn him.
Drafted some muskets.
1185 Declare on Asoka and he capitulated 1292AD.
Discover chemistry, upgraded all my maces(I did not build a single one, but all surviving drafted maces now had a lot of EX.) and praets and declared on
Hanibal 1324AD.
He capitulated 1342AD, was really a short war, with my cavalry and greens walking over him.
Domination limit achieved in 1356.
I really never bother about score, had 2 unused GE at that moment.
about that time my cities become to crunch Greate People, as most of them accumulate enogth to beat my capital.
Tech wize I was researching fisics at that time.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4911597&postcount=29
Interesting thin,
I got next GS 564AD and took paper from it.
Traded it around and got maps for it, as result
I got around the globe the same year.
I wander how in other games AI got around in BC time? IN my game they never open borders to each other to do that.
580AD I declared on Masta.
Research wize i went after Nationalism.
885AD Mata become my vassal.
Revolted to it 890 AD and drafted some Maces.
940 declared on Washington.
On side note, I went after Liberalism then and as result on my own undecisivness lost it by 5 turns.
Got GM inted of expected GS and was waiting for GS insted of ry=un dificit research.
1075AD Washinton capitulated.
1135AD Capac got liberalism, darn him.
Drafted some muskets.
1185 Declare on Asoka and he capitulated 1292AD.
Discover chemistry, upgraded all my maces(I did not build a single one, but all surviving drafted maces now had a lot of EX.) and praets and declared on
Hanibal 1324AD.
He capitulated 1342AD, was really a short war, with my cavalry and greens walking over him.
Domination limit achieved in 1356.
I really never bother about score, had 2 unused GE at that moment.
about that time my cities become to crunch Greate People, as most of them accumulate enogth to beat my capital.
Tech wize I was researching fisics at that time.
urbis
Chieftain
After initially being daunted by the marathon speed (assuming it would take ages to complete) I've had a thoroughly enjoyable game. I didn't post an early spoiler, so here's a summary of my game.
Initial techs were Bronze >> Agriculture (for corn) >> Hunting (towards Archery for defenders, but when I realised my second city would provide copper I decided to skip Archery) >> Wheel (for roads) >> Iron Working.
Initial builds were Workboat >> Workboat (interrupted when city got to size 2 to build 2 workers, with second being chop-assisted) >> Warrior >> Settler >> Warrior.
The early ages:
War with Mali
Go west
Victory
Initial techs were Bronze >> Agriculture (for corn) >> Hunting (towards Archery for defenders, but when I realised my second city would provide copper I decided to skip Archery) >> Wheel (for roads) >> Iron Working.
Initial builds were Workboat >> Workboat (interrupted when city got to size 2 to build 2 workers, with second being chop-assisted) >> Warrior >> Settler >> Warrior.
The early ages:
- My exploring warrior found Mansus empire, and found an undefended worker building a road in a forest. Having read about the advantages of taking a neighbour's worker early on I uncharacteristically declared war and took the worker. Unfortunately Id forgotten he has skirmishers instead of archers, and he sent a skirmisher to kill my warrior and take back the worker.
- 2605BC - unpleasant surprise finding how close to our empire a celtic city has appeared. Then again, when we have Praetorians these represent easy pickings
- 2260BC - lost the 2nd warrior explorer to a barb archer, but have 3 cities, access to copper, and starting to feel good.
- 1255BC we have taken Vienne from the Celts with our first Praetorian and 2 Axemen, with no losses. Now an epic battle for Bibracte, the Celtic capital, pits 8 Praetorians and an Axeman vs 8 defending Archers. In a great display of Roman ferocity, the first round of battle left 1 defending archer with 0.5 strength, for the loss of just 2 Praetorians! The Roman Empire is destined for greatness!
- 1135BC Tolosa also captured from Celts, with no losses, and the march of the Praetorians looks unstoppable
- 1120BC the Celts had nothing to trade, so we crushed their last city Georgovia (was size 1 still so it was razed), again with no loss of Praetorians.
- Peace for a time, except for the conquest of Zapotec, a small barbarian city with furs (much needed happiness) and horses. 10 Praetorians range westward to threaten Mali. Economy tanked just positive on cash with 0% science, but got some cottages maturing which should get us out of the woods soon.
War with Mali
- 880BC declared war on Mali and attacked nearest city. 2 skirmishers no match for Praetorians took it with no losses, and behold, William the Conqueror appears in Rome!
- 720AD battle to raze Malinese city of Djenne near their capital 9 elite Praetorians including William the Conquerors Praetorian Guard, vs 4 fortified Skirmishers. Victory!
- 650BC battle to raze Malinese city of Walata William the Conqueror dies; Rome will hold great games to celebrate his deeds.
Go west
- 150BC having realised how vast the continent is, and having surplus Praetorians, decided to unleash the dogs of war and have the Praetorians range west again to raze and loot everything possible until they become obsolete. Started with the weak but re-expanding Malinese.
- 70BC decisive battle vs Malinese as 16 Praetorians take on 8 defenders in Timbuktu (Skirmishers and Axemen). Victory, with the loss of just 4 elite Praetorians, whose mighty spirits are soaring to the halls of their forefathers.
- 90AD we attack the Americans, who are foolishly unprepared. Two cities razed and two taken for no losses. Bigger battle for Washington, with 2 Praetorians lost, but their Axemen, Swordsmen and Archers are no match for us. Economy in trouble again (maybe I shouldnt be keeping cities? Decided to keep good ones in this area and build a Forbidden Palace there).
- Nasty shock when an opponent gets Macemen before us and we realise how good they are against Praetorians, but fortunately we can use Elephants to defend our stacks from them while our catapults weaken their cities.
Victory
- 1000AD after 1000 years of near continual warfare, initially with Praetorians, catapults and war elephants, and later with Macemen and Trebuchents, the continent is entirely ours. The Incans and Indians each have a few cities on the island, which we cant reach until Carthage culture re-expands or we get Astronomy.
- 1274AD our Galleons delivered the elite of our forces to the island, who made quick work of the remaining rebels.
- Conquest victory for 144,368 points, which is my best score ever! Achieved by the strength of Praetorians, used from an early date, pillaging everything possible to boost gold supply, and by razing rather than keeping many cities.
- Some lessons learned which would have allowed a faster victory keep even fewer cities (I ended up with 23, and the growing cost of city maintenance nearly stalled my economy a couple of times), dont attack a city until odds are overwhelming (had a couple of attacks where I lost the entire assault force, where if Id waited a few more turns for more reinforcements I would have succeeded first time), could have built fewer buildings in cities allowing more military units sooner.
- A very enjoyable game, and took around 35 hours playing time which is about my norm, despite looking at the beginning like it would be a much longer game than usual.
ngraner42
Ultrarunner
I thought I actually had a shot at an award. Diplo victory 1424 
, for 223113, a tie 
with Erkon.
, for 223113, a tie with Erkon.RobertTheBruce
King
I thought I actually had a shot at an award. Diplo victory 1424
That's an impressive score for a diplo win. (I scored 88k for a similar finish turn.) How close were you to the domination theshold?
hendrikszoon
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
- Messages
- 60
Contender, Conquest Victory
In my opinion this WotM was a good example that not only the diffculty level determines how challengig is a game. The influence of the map has at least the same importance. In this game the map helps the human player a lot. It was a very good starting position: You can start on a Plains Hill - with an additional Hammer - and there are three Clams inside the City Squares. Also the UU of the Romans - the Praetorians - is one of the best - if you have Iron. I remember the first GotM where we played also the Romans. But in this game the Romans started on an island with only one AI opponent. So the benefit of the Praetorians was a little bit limited.
Also helpful on this map was the positioning of the AI opponents: Only one - Brennus - was close enough to become a threat. But a close AI is not only a threat. It is also a chance to get cheap Workers.
Last but not least Marathon gives an additional motivation because it allows very high scores.
Unfortunately not all was running well: I was not able to build The Hanging Gardens in the last turn - the wonder was built in Carthago very early (508AD) - and Mansa Musa adopted Emancipation. So I was constrained to research Democracy - I never did it before - and to accept a six turn anarchy. These two negative events cost me around 30000 points and prevented a better result.
Also it seems that my gameplay was not perfect. At 1000AD I have had only a 192k score.
Final result is a Conquest Victory in 1378AD with a score of 434201.
In my opinion this WotM was a good example that not only the diffculty level determines how challengig is a game. The influence of the map has at least the same importance. In this game the map helps the human player a lot. It was a very good starting position: You can start on a Plains Hill - with an additional Hammer - and there are three Clams inside the City Squares. Also the UU of the Romans - the Praetorians - is one of the best - if you have Iron. I remember the first GotM where we played also the Romans. But in this game the Romans started on an island with only one AI opponent. So the benefit of the Praetorians was a little bit limited.
Also helpful on this map was the positioning of the AI opponents: Only one - Brennus - was close enough to become a threat. But a close AI is not only a threat. It is also a chance to get cheap Workers.
Last but not least Marathon gives an additional motivation because it allows very high scores.
Unfortunately not all was running well: I was not able to build The Hanging Gardens in the last turn - the wonder was built in Carthago very early (508AD) - and Mansa Musa adopted Emancipation. So I was constrained to research Democracy - I never did it before - and to accept a six turn anarchy. These two negative events cost me around 30000 points and prevented a better result.
Also it seems that my gameplay was not perfect. At 1000AD I have had only a 192k score.
Final result is a Conquest Victory in 1378AD with a score of 434201.
Wow, hendrikszoon - that's an amazing amount of milking - 200K or so. I'm a little surprised it worked out that well. I played for an early dom victory because I was convinced that going up the Sci ladder to Bio would take so long that it would lose out to early domination. I was way off in that assessment. Of course, there was also the fact that with this speed, I didn't want to mm a big empire.
Curious how early you attacked and how many cities you kept from your early conquests? In other words, how did you decide to balance Sci, Econ and conquest early on.
Curious how early you attacked and how many cities you kept from your early conquests? In other words, how did you decide to balance Sci, Econ and conquest early on.
ngraner42
Ultrarunner
I had made every other civ a vassal state except for Brennus who was eliminated early and Asoka, who finished the game as my only rival. When Washington capitulated my land was in the high 50% range and went up to 60 and a tenth or so after the new cities expanded. For the remainder of the game my land coverage only went up a few 1/10ths of a percent. It seems that on Warlords, even more than vanilla, culture is very persistent and it takes forever to flip established tiles.
One thing that helped my game was that Hannibal capitulated very quickly. Washington, then Asoka, and then I declared war on him. I took Carthage and a few nearby cities. Washington made peace quickly after I declared, but Hannibal still had the other two of us attacking. I was concerned about accepting capitulation since Asoka was the most powerful civ, but apparently since he was pleased with me, he instantly made peace when Hannibal capitulated. This gave me a vassal with initially 50% of my land area and 35% of my population and allowed me to quickly move onto Capac.
I went into this game not planning to build wonders, but rather capture them since Marathon speed makes units so much cheaper than buildings, but I ended up building the Oracle, Great Library, Parthenon, Colossus, and the Pyramids. The Pyramids were being build in a minor city for the cash, but when I realized I had a shot to actually finish them I chopped about 3 forests and quickly wrapped them up. I went with a mixed economy of some cottage cities (cities 3 and 4 principally), sea tiles with Colossus, and Representation/Caste System/Mercantilism. The use of specialists resulted in 4 GS and 2 GA all of which were used on the push to Mass Media.
In Bibracte I spent forever building the Globe Theater and it was completely unnecessary, mainly because of the specialists I ran and also using the city to pop out Settlers. By the time Globe was finished I had tons of happiness resources and the population had not grown enough. Similarly I wasted a bunch of effort on Oxford that had an effective life span of a handful of turns. I had much better success than past games in deciding when there was not enough of a future for a long range item, but I definitely have a lot of room to improve.
One thing that helped my game was that Hannibal capitulated very quickly. Washington, then Asoka, and then I declared war on him. I took Carthage and a few nearby cities. Washington made peace quickly after I declared, but Hannibal still had the other two of us attacking. I was concerned about accepting capitulation since Asoka was the most powerful civ, but apparently since he was pleased with me, he instantly made peace when Hannibal capitulated. This gave me a vassal with initially 50% of my land area and 35% of my population and allowed me to quickly move onto Capac.
I went into this game not planning to build wonders, but rather capture them since Marathon speed makes units so much cheaper than buildings, but I ended up building the Oracle, Great Library, Parthenon, Colossus, and the Pyramids. The Pyramids were being build in a minor city for the cash, but when I realized I had a shot to actually finish them I chopped about 3 forests and quickly wrapped them up. I went with a mixed economy of some cottage cities (cities 3 and 4 principally), sea tiles with Colossus, and Representation/Caste System/Mercantilism. The use of specialists resulted in 4 GS and 2 GA all of which were used on the push to Mass Media.
In Bibracte I spent forever building the Globe Theater and it was completely unnecessary, mainly because of the specialists I ran and also using the city to pop out Settlers. By the time Globe was finished I had tons of happiness resources and the population had not grown enough. Similarly I wasted a bunch of effort on Oxford that had an effective life span of a handful of turns. I had much better success than past games in deciding when there was not enough of a future for a long range item, but I definitely have a lot of room to improve.
ngraner42
Ultrarunner
One interesting note on the game speed debate. I spent less time on this game than on WOTM3, even though I feel I exercised more care.
hendrikszoon
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
- Messages
- 60
I didn't start my Conquest Wars - I differenziate between Worker Wars, Strategic Wars and Conquest Wars - very early. The only exception was the Gallic War (540BC - 470BC). But in this War I captured only two cities and destroyed all the other. And also the capture of two cities was a mistake. It would have been better to destroy them all.Doc TK said:
Before State Property the capture of enemy cities would crunch my economy. So I start always my conquest campaign when I not so far away from Communism. In this game I got Communism at 788AD. The first big War - with the capture of a lot of cities - was the Carthagian/Incan War (652AD - 870AD), followed by the Indian War (930AD - 995AD) and the American War (1040AD - 1105AD). It was possible to start with city capturing before State Property because I have had some Gold and got some Gold from conquering cities and destroying Cottages, Hamlets, etc. Also it is not so important to get Biology very fast. A 30% research is sufficient.
The last War was the Malinese War (1362AD - 1376AD). In this War I take over all Malinese cities in the last turn of the WAr which was also the last turn of my game.
lroumen
Warlord
I tried several types of victories but ended up with a diplomatic loss since I got diddled by Washington...
I started the game as one would expect from Rome. I amassed an army of Roman Praetorians to destroy whatever comes in sight. I met Brennus and made him go bye bye pretty quickly. Then I overextended with the bad positioning of the capital and had to temper my warring and stabilise my country.
By the time I had my research up I had to fight many barbarians and was delayed with war even further. I ended up with Mansa close to my towns and decided to go for later expansion. After the war with Brennus and with Mansa as a close and happy neighbour I was further irritated with Huyna and Hannibal who continuously tried to trick me into war with Asoka and Washington.
Huyna and Hannibal lost a lot of ground to Asoka and Washington which gave me more problems with teching. I was hard-pressed to keep up with the tech-race to keep making the powerful units, but I fell behind and decided to play the cute and friendly player they should all love. I switched my warplans for technology research and traded many resources around and technologies in my favour. Finally, mid to late game I had 2 pleased civs and 1 friendly (Asoka) who even wanted a Defensive Pact with me! This was the opportunity to try a Diplomatic Victory.
After teching like crazy I beelined to the UN and quickly built it, having a slight technology advantage in the other sectors.... but to my horror, all the civs that were happy with me voted for Washington! Grrrrrrrr..... Mansa and Asoka were less happy with him, but I think they voted for him because of his military might. Whatever I tried, it just wouldn't please the two and they would only vote for Washington. I made Washington change Government types but it just wouldn't work.
Because I noticed a slight technology gain over the rest I decided to switch my victory tactics yet again and went on to create my spaceship. Eventhough Mansa and Washington created their first spaceship parts rather quickly, I was not discouraged because I had a headstart over the high end techs and was creating the high-hammer parts first. The small casings were made speedily by Mansa, but that was nothing to worry about. Even his Golden Age did not bring my hopes down.... but something else did.
Huyna Capac thought he could wage a war with me and dropped 3 transports near my capital. I fought him off well enough and bought my allies into war hoping that the war would give me some more favour for yet another attempt at a diplomatic victory. Only.... it didn't and I had made a bad mistake asking Washington into the fight. That was the end of me because none of the three was any happier with me and Huyna capitulated to none other than Washington. Eventhough he had a Vassal and Asoka and Mansa would be less favourable to him, they still voted for the man and because Huyna who had always abstained, was now obliged to vote for Washington he won the diplomatic victory....
In hindsight I was too focused on my techrace to make better units and I just had to ask the others into the war. I should also have kept Huyna a bit more unannoyed and pay less attention to the favour of the others because I had switched my options to the spacerace anyhow but in my thoughts I just had to keep that diplomacy open but that was just what was my undoing. I could have easily made the spacerace work, I just know it.
Btw. I'm going to get me a new pen and paper. I forgot to switch on the autolog feature and because I thought it was on at default I didn't take notes.
I started the game as one would expect from Rome. I amassed an army of Roman Praetorians to destroy whatever comes in sight. I met Brennus and made him go bye bye pretty quickly. Then I overextended with the bad positioning of the capital and had to temper my warring and stabilise my country.
By the time I had my research up I had to fight many barbarians and was delayed with war even further. I ended up with Mansa close to my towns and decided to go for later expansion. After the war with Brennus and with Mansa as a close and happy neighbour I was further irritated with Huyna and Hannibal who continuously tried to trick me into war with Asoka and Washington.
Huyna and Hannibal lost a lot of ground to Asoka and Washington which gave me more problems with teching. I was hard-pressed to keep up with the tech-race to keep making the powerful units, but I fell behind and decided to play the cute and friendly player they should all love. I switched my warplans for technology research and traded many resources around and technologies in my favour. Finally, mid to late game I had 2 pleased civs and 1 friendly (Asoka) who even wanted a Defensive Pact with me! This was the opportunity to try a Diplomatic Victory.
After teching like crazy I beelined to the UN and quickly built it, having a slight technology advantage in the other sectors.... but to my horror, all the civs that were happy with me voted for Washington! Grrrrrrrr..... Mansa and Asoka were less happy with him, but I think they voted for him because of his military might. Whatever I tried, it just wouldn't please the two and they would only vote for Washington. I made Washington change Government types but it just wouldn't work.
Because I noticed a slight technology gain over the rest I decided to switch my victory tactics yet again and went on to create my spaceship. Eventhough Mansa and Washington created their first spaceship parts rather quickly, I was not discouraged because I had a headstart over the high end techs and was creating the high-hammer parts first. The small casings were made speedily by Mansa, but that was nothing to worry about. Even his Golden Age did not bring my hopes down.... but something else did.
Huyna Capac thought he could wage a war with me and dropped 3 transports near my capital. I fought him off well enough and bought my allies into war hoping that the war would give me some more favour for yet another attempt at a diplomatic victory. Only.... it didn't and I had made a bad mistake asking Washington into the fight. That was the end of me because none of the three was any happier with me and Huyna capitulated to none other than Washington. Eventhough he had a Vassal and Asoka and Mansa would be less favourable to him, they still voted for the man and because Huyna who had always abstained, was now obliged to vote for Washington he won the diplomatic victory....
In hindsight I was too focused on my techrace to make better units and I just had to ask the others into the war. I should also have kept Huyna a bit more unannoyed and pay less attention to the favour of the others because I had switched my options to the spacerace anyhow but in my thoughts I just had to keep that diplomacy open but that was just what was my undoing. I could have easily made the spacerace work, I just know it.
Btw. I'm going to get me a new pen and paper. I forgot to switch on the autolog feature and because I thought it was on at default I didn't take notes.
My very first Civ4 game. And a disastrous one actually. Soo different to Civ3. Lessons learnt:
1. Combined arms are essential. I took huge losses before realising this. Especially using airsupport proved to be paramount to lower the losses.
2. Need to be more restrictive when expanding, I had a couple of down periods when the economy was really on the brink of collapsing. CoL is so important and Courthouses essential as far as I understand it now.
3. Overbuilding in my cities, forgot to specialize and ended up as I used to at the start of Civ3. Building a lot of everything everywhere.
4. Need to get better at tech research, it was still running at about 20 turns per tech at the end. I guess that is way too slow. What rate is it normally possible to run at at the end?
Ended up with domination in 1507AD, 125k. I guess it could pass as a first attempt...
1. Combined arms are essential. I took huge losses before realising this. Especially using airsupport proved to be paramount to lower the losses.
2. Need to be more restrictive when expanding, I had a couple of down periods when the economy was really on the brink of collapsing. CoL is so important and Courthouses essential as far as I understand it now.
3. Overbuilding in my cities, forgot to specialize and ended up as I used to at the start of Civ3. Building a lot of everything everywhere.
4. Need to get better at tech research, it was still running at about 20 turns per tech at the end. I guess that is way too slow. What rate is it normally possible to run at at the end?
Ended up with domination in 1507AD, 125k. I guess it could pass as a first attempt...
Slower expansion, but much more advanced research compared to my game. You got Communism already 788 AD while I still had 4 turns left to Education in 995 AD.
Nice strategy with State Property. How much does this shave off from the total maintenance in a big empire like this?
Great game and great score there, congrats!
My plan was to take advantage of the Creative trait to grab as much territory early on as possible, hopefully find some Iron there, and then, in a stunning display of original thinking, using Praetorians to kill people.
I settled in place, of course. I first built a Work Boat, then a Warrior, and then a Settler. I didnt start on a worker until 2830 BC, by which time Id been met by the Brennus and Mansa Musa. Antium went near Clams Copper Silk, and its culture quickly expanded to block off the Golden Peninsula from my enemies. Excellent! The Plan called for additional cities to be built further west. However the Celts expanded before I could get any further in that direction, thereby volunteering for Step 2 of the Plan: Getting Killed. My third city ended up with Gold Gold Cows.
Early research: Bronze Working The Wheel Agriculture Animal Husbandry Pottery
EARLY WARFARE
A CHANGE OF PLAN
THE HOME STRETCH
I finished the Apollo Program, developed Fusion, and completed the Three Gorges Dam between 1519 and 1525 AD, then started a Golden Age. My Space Race was off to a booming start. I completed research of my last Space Race tech (Ecology) in 1575 AD and set my economy fully to cash. This allowed me to fully upgrade my military to Mech Inf and whatnot, with a modest boost to my score. I also popped out the Pentagon just because I could. My ship launched in 1597 AD, giving me a base score of 3440 and a final score of 37,838. Which would be magnificent on regular speed but on Marathon? Ive no idea.
As for my opponents, well Mansa Musa and Asoka both had spaceships that were pretty far along. If theyd been throwing everything into the Space Race like I had, one of them would have won well before my ship was finished. Asoka finished the Apollo Program in 1490 AD! But of course the AI lacks a killer instinct. And Id helped confuse things by bribing Asoka and Washington to attack Huyana and Hannibal during the 1300 and 1400s. This eventually led to vassalizations, which I dont think Mansa Musa was taking into account when he attacked the Incas in 1511 AD, leading to war with his best friend, Washington. India was at war with America and with Mali at various times during the Space Race period as well. Throw in the fact that the AI seems to prioritize food and commerce way more than it should, to the detriment of production capacity, and I never really felt threatened.
I settled in place, of course. I first built a Work Boat, then a Warrior, and then a Settler. I didnt start on a worker until 2830 BC, by which time Id been met by the Brennus and Mansa Musa. Antium went near Clams Copper Silk, and its culture quickly expanded to block off the Golden Peninsula from my enemies. Excellent! The Plan called for additional cities to be built further west. However the Celts expanded before I could get any further in that direction, thereby volunteering for Step 2 of the Plan: Getting Killed. My third city ended up with Gold Gold Cows.
Early research: Bronze Working The Wheel Agriculture Animal Husbandry Pottery
EARLY WARFARE
Spoiler :
A CHANGE OF PLAN
Spoiler :
THE HOME STRETCH
Spoiler :
I finished the Apollo Program, developed Fusion, and completed the Three Gorges Dam between 1519 and 1525 AD, then started a Golden Age. My Space Race was off to a booming start. I completed research of my last Space Race tech (Ecology) in 1575 AD and set my economy fully to cash. This allowed me to fully upgrade my military to Mech Inf and whatnot, with a modest boost to my score. I also popped out the Pentagon just because I could. My ship launched in 1597 AD, giving me a base score of 3440 and a final score of 37,838. Which would be magnificent on regular speed but on Marathon? Ive no idea.
As for my opponents, well Mansa Musa and Asoka both had spaceships that were pretty far along. If theyd been throwing everything into the Space Race like I had, one of them would have won well before my ship was finished. Asoka finished the Apollo Program in 1490 AD! But of course the AI lacks a killer instinct. And Id helped confuse things by bribing Asoka and Washington to attack Huyana and Hannibal during the 1300 and 1400s. This eventually led to vassalizations, which I dont think Mansa Musa was taking into account when he attacked the Incas in 1511 AD, leading to war with his best friend, Washington. India was at war with America and with Mali at various times during the Space Race period as well. Throw in the fact that the AI seems to prioritize food and commerce way more than it should, to the detriment of production capacity, and I never really felt threatened.
lroumen
Warlord
Vynd,
It seems that you had the same problem as I had this game. The early warfare did not work well for the economy and I switched to technology racing as well. Sadly I made the mistake of building the United Nations, which was my undoing, but otherwise I would have finished my spaceship a little bit later than you... around 1630AD or so. I think the reason why I'm a bit later is that I might have had a few cities less or something along those lines.
Washington was also the smart one in my game, not trading technologies with me because I was becoming too advanced. Mansa and Asoka are just all too happy to trade away their techs. I was unable to separate Washington from the others though.
Interesting that you ran State Property in your game. Maybe it would have made an impact in my game too with the Capital being poorly placed. I did make the Forbidden Palace on the other side of my empire, but I'm starting to believe that it's just not good enough.
It seems that you had the same problem as I had this game. The early warfare did not work well for the economy and I switched to technology racing as well. Sadly I made the mistake of building the United Nations, which was my undoing, but otherwise I would have finished my spaceship a little bit later than you... around 1630AD or so. I think the reason why I'm a bit later is that I might have had a few cities less or something along those lines.
Washington was also the smart one in my game, not trading technologies with me because I was becoming too advanced. Mansa and Asoka are just all too happy to trade away their techs. I was unable to separate Washington from the others though.
Interesting that you ran State Property in your game. Maybe it would have made an impact in my game too with the Capital being poorly placed. I did make the Forbidden Palace on the other side of my empire, but I'm starting to believe that it's just not good enough.
State Property is great! I neglected it when I first started playing, but reading the forums here taught me just how powerful it really is, and now I almost always run it when it is available. Unless your empire is very small, eliminating distance costs saves you far more money than the extra trade routes from Free Market can generate. The food bonus to workshops and watermills can really come in handy too.
In a game like this one, where my empire had 11 cities including some that were quite far from my palace, the economic impact was especially huge. Once I switched to State Property I was able to run 100% science (with some cash brought in via tech trading) until I'd researched every Space Race tech. And workshops and watermills helped me build my parts quickly.
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