WOTM 06 - Final Spoiler
Reading Restrictions:
- You must have completed and submitted your game.
Posting Restrictions
- Please do not post pictures of any modern resources (eg. uranium, aluminium, coal).
WOTM 06 - Final Spoiler
- Thread starter Gyathaar
- Start date
Reading Restrictions:
Posting Restrictions
This turned out to be a pretty straightforward space race attempt for me. Most of the interesting stuff was either toward the very beginning of the very end of the game so that's what I've focused on.
Establishing Hinduism
Founding Uppsala
Slow Expansion
Astronomy, Liberalism, and Democracy
Rambunctious Romans
The Space "Race"
My Inevitable Victory
Establishing Hinduism
Spoiler :
Founding Uppsala
Spoiler :
Slow Expansion
Spoiler :
Astronomy, Liberalism, and Democracy
Spoiler :
Rambunctious Romans
Spoiler :
The Space "Race"
Spoiler :
My Inevitable Victory
Spoiler :
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
Very Briefly, More Later
In my game, there was no war, ever. Not one AI declared on any other AI. Very weird.
I built the UN around 1680AD, in 1 TURN! GE and 3600 gold and boom! I immediately went for diplomatic victory, and was denied twice. I had +10 with 4 civs, but two civs didn't vote for me. Adopting the right civic for one and removing a DP that bothered the other was enough for the win at 1700 AD
I think my adjusted score was 24K. Can't Remember
In my game, there was no war, ever. Not one AI declared on any other AI. Very weird.
I built the UN around 1680AD, in 1 TURN! GE and 3600 gold and boom! I immediately went for diplomatic victory, and was denied twice. I had +10 with 4 civs, but two civs didn't vote for me. Adopting the right civic for one and removing a DP that bothered the other was enough for the win at 1700 AD
I think my adjusted score was 24K. Can't Remember
The Mad Swede
Chieftain
Continued from my 500AD spoiler. I had played a peaceful game and founded 6 cities so far. I was last in score but keeping up well in tech. I owned the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus.
My plan was now to go for a peaceful diplomacy victory as I did not feel confident about warring with anyone seeing as my production capacity was pretty bad.
The game was now rather uneventful for a long time. Everyone was being nice to eachother.
I circumnavigated for the bonus in 1142 AD which seems to be really late compared to everyone else. Roosevelt kept nabbing most of the wonders.
I got mainly Merchants and Engineers in my GP farm of Nidaros. Yet another WOTM with a distinct lack of Scientists. I used a Great Engineer for The Spiral Minaret as I thought it gave me 2 gold for every Hindu building in the world. Mistake. It only gives you money for the buildings you own yourself and did thus not boost my economy much at all.
I founded 2 more cities on 1-tile islands to get a little science boost for the future.
In 1589AD things got a bit more rowdy as Huayna declared on Asoka. It is clear that the AI is totally useless at fighting wars on this type of map as Asoka had a city on an island close to Huaynas empire which he was completely unable to take. In 1688 Roosevelt declared on Huayna and in 1721 Cathy decced Asoka. At this point it was looking like me versus Caesar for the diplo win provided I got the UN so I declared on Asoka as well to get Cathy and Huayna on my side.
However, I was dismayed to find that Catherine had managed to grow past Caesar by the time I was about to research Mass Media. The plan was now to go Buddhist to get Izzy and Roosevelt on my side as well as adopting a few civics to please the rest. I was never going to get Asoka on my side and Huayna really loved Cathy so he was probably out too. Diplo win didn't look completely impossible but definately tricky.
Silly me forgot that changing to Representation to please Caesar meant I could not rush the U.N., so I had to change back...
I hurried/gold-rushed the UN in 1818AD. The vote for Secretary was clearly in my favor, but it would not be enough. I needed 40 more votes. When the vote for Diplo Win came in it turned out that Roosevelt abstained and that meant I wasn't even close.
So I had to go for Space race instead. I was now well behind the AI on that tech tree, my production was bad, I lacked happiness and health-resources, and I found that I also lacked Aluminium.
So I just played the game out expecting to lose the Space Race to Roosevelt. Luckily I was able to found a city on an aluminium island to the northeast. I pumped out factories, forges and laboratories, but by the time I started building spaceship parts Roosevelt had 5 parts finished already.
My only hope was to get the Space Elevator. More luck as I got another engineer and sold some techs for large sums. The Space Elevator was built in Haithabu in 1894AD. By this time I had 1 finished part to Roosevelts 8.
I now started building Workshops all over the cities that would finish their parts last. I felt I had a small chance now. With ten turns left for my final builds. Roosevelt got his 2nd last piece built. This was going all the way to the finish line!
By now I was pressing enter and praying.
But I got the victory!!! It must have been really tight. Especially since Augustus declared on me in my victory turn!
Spaceship Victory for Ragnar.
1951AD.
2985/8272 pts.
This could have been maybe 30 turns faster had I not gone for the UN. But I'm not complaining.
My plan was now to go for a peaceful diplomacy victory as I did not feel confident about warring with anyone seeing as my production capacity was pretty bad.
The game was now rather uneventful for a long time. Everyone was being nice to eachother.
I circumnavigated for the bonus in 1142 AD which seems to be really late compared to everyone else. Roosevelt kept nabbing most of the wonders.
I got mainly Merchants and Engineers in my GP farm of Nidaros. Yet another WOTM with a distinct lack of Scientists. I used a Great Engineer for The Spiral Minaret as I thought it gave me 2 gold for every Hindu building in the world. Mistake. It only gives you money for the buildings you own yourself and did thus not boost my economy much at all.
I founded 2 more cities on 1-tile islands to get a little science boost for the future.
In 1589AD things got a bit more rowdy as Huayna declared on Asoka. It is clear that the AI is totally useless at fighting wars on this type of map as Asoka had a city on an island close to Huaynas empire which he was completely unable to take. In 1688 Roosevelt declared on Huayna and in 1721 Cathy decced Asoka. At this point it was looking like me versus Caesar for the diplo win provided I got the UN so I declared on Asoka as well to get Cathy and Huayna on my side.
However, I was dismayed to find that Catherine had managed to grow past Caesar by the time I was about to research Mass Media. The plan was now to go Buddhist to get Izzy and Roosevelt on my side as well as adopting a few civics to please the rest. I was never going to get Asoka on my side and Huayna really loved Cathy so he was probably out too. Diplo win didn't look completely impossible but definately tricky.
Silly me forgot that changing to Representation to please Caesar meant I could not rush the U.N., so I had to change back...
I hurried/gold-rushed the UN in 1818AD. The vote for Secretary was clearly in my favor, but it would not be enough. I needed 40 more votes. When the vote for Diplo Win came in it turned out that Roosevelt abstained and that meant I wasn't even close.
So I had to go for Space race instead. I was now well behind the AI on that tech tree, my production was bad, I lacked happiness and health-resources, and I found that I also lacked Aluminium.
So I just played the game out expecting to lose the Space Race to Roosevelt. Luckily I was able to found a city on an aluminium island to the northeast. I pumped out factories, forges and laboratories, but by the time I started building spaceship parts Roosevelt had 5 parts finished already.
My only hope was to get the Space Elevator. More luck as I got another engineer and sold some techs for large sums. The Space Elevator was built in Haithabu in 1894AD. By this time I had 1 finished part to Roosevelts 8.
I now started building Workshops all over the cities that would finish their parts last. I felt I had a small chance now. With ten turns left for my final builds. Roosevelt got his 2nd last piece built. This was going all the way to the finish line!
By now I was pressing enter and praying.
But I got the victory!!! It must have been really tight. Especially since Augustus declared on me in my victory turn!
Spaceship Victory for Ragnar.
1951AD.
2985/8272 pts.
This could have been maybe 30 turns faster had I not gone for the UN. But I'm not complaining.
AgedOne
Emperor
or How the Vikings forgot their unruly past and became world statesmen (kinda)
Where We left Ragnar
In 500AD, the Viking empire was exultant at having wiped out their near neighbours, the Russians.
See early years post here
However, this had left us rather behind on tech, and slightly pressed financially. This required a rethink, which at the time I considered to be a temporary phase, though it became my entire strategy.
A very useful meeting
Almost at once, while trying to map out the lands to the east, we found the Spanish coastline. But Isabella was not the useful meeting. No. Roosevelt was busy attacking her, and meeting him turned out to be just one of the things that fell very nicely into place in this game.
He immediately struck me as a tech trading partner, as he was slightly less advanced than the ones Id already met, and lacked some of my tech, but possessed various others I didnt have. We started off in a small way by trading him HorseRiding for 3 tech, but we came back later
Tech Chasing in the middle years
Having sorted our economy a bit with the introduction of courthouses, we spent much of the middle game researching like crazy setting up some Gt People factories once we got libraries in lots of micro-management to get research and Gt People rates high as possible always chasing the leading pack.
But each time we got a new tech (and I was careful to pick advanced techs rather than filling in more ancient ones) I was able to trade it to Roosevelt, me old chum, in exchange for several of his tech.
We did this with HorseRiding (as I said), then Civil Service and Paper.
When I got Education I found that several werent there yet, and I traded it to Asoka too. Only Caesar held out. He was a tech leader throughout, and I often wondered if I would ever catch him.
Virtue of a Necessity
During this middle stage I decided that there was no purpose to be gained in Vikingly pursuits, like conquest and pillage. Wed had our brash early years. Now we should try to make our impact on the world in some other way. I decided on a diplomatic route, somewhere in these years. It is, I think, the earliest I had decided to go for a diplomatic victory and certainly the only time I have achieved one having been working towards it for so long.
Great People
This is something else new in my games. Of course, Ive had great people before, but this time I was really pushing for them and managed to get a total of 9 2 prophets, 2 artists and 5 scientists. Not world-beating, I know, but a definite improvement. These all helped with light-bulbing tech.
Friends and Enemies
Since I knew I was heading for a diplomatic victory, I kept a close eye on my dealings with my friends who were Roosevelt, Asoka and Caesar. I made sure not to upset them too much by trading with the others, and I adjusted civics from time to time to impress them (though not at the expense of affecting my research). I also kept a careful eye on the gruesome twosome Isabella and Huayna Capac. Though I never went to war with them, I often expected them to declare on me. My military was never big enough, and so I kept producing a steady stream in the hope it would deter anyone who fancied their chances.
I also accepted a defensive pact with Roosevelt, which hopefully kept others off our backs though it did, of course, dent our relationships with Asoka and Caesar.
The push for the UN
From about 1700 onwards I was closing in on Mass Media, desperate to get there before Caesar, who had always got every tech I was researching about 4 turns before me.
I went Physics, Electricity, Radio, Mass Media. Each time I traded them off in exchange for tech or wads of cash. Not Mass Media, of course. That I wanted for myself.
I started thinking ahead to the UN elections. I decided Huayna would be my rival, assuming I built it, as he had the largest population. This was generally good news, as he wasnt well liked, except by Isabella.
Roosevelt threw a small spanner in the works by scrapping our defensive pact and declaring on Isabella. My main concern was not the loss of the pact, but that he might increase his population enough to become my UN rival. He was popular, unlike Huayna, and could cause me massive problems.
By the way, he also invited me into his war, which caused me some mental anguish over my decision. I wanted to keep everyone close friends, so refusing his offer wasnt good news, but on balance I felt that an angry Isabella might actually damage me more permanently if I declared on her.
As the time grew close, there was another semi-shock. Someone beat us to Mass Media, and it wasnt Caesar! It was Huayna! I was hot on his heels though.
Building the UN
We got Mass Media in 1843. I wish Id thought of it earlier, but a Gt Engineer would have been very handy at this point. By the time I did think of it, there was no hope of getting one in time.
Nidaros was my biggest builder, but the UN would have taken over 100 turns. Not good!
Some quick and risky trading. I sold my beloved Mass Media to Asoka for Assembly Line. Then I switched to Uni Suff and bought a forge in Nidaros.
Turning research off to swell the gold vaults, we bought a factory in Nidaros, and started the UN.
It was still going to take 60 turns, but our gold was growing at over 500 per turn.
I watched each turn as the gold increased and the amount needed to buy the UN decreased as we built more of it. Would they meet in the middle before Huayna completed?
In 1873 we realised that it had worked!! We bought the UN !!
Final Years
Well, wed got the UN. Now we needed to use it wisely. No, really! This was important. Caesar had just completed his Apollo Program and if we didnt get our diplomacy right, wed see him heading off on a vapour trail
With some small relief, we saw that Huayna was our competitor for the secretariat.
We won this vote easily, with 560 out of 863 votes and 345 needed. The votes went exactly where expected with Asoka, Roosevelt and Caesar behind me, and only Isabella behind Huayna.
How to get the win? Well, if they all voted like they did there, wed get it, as the target is 535 to win.
However, they might not be as willing this time. I checked around. Asoka (who wed signed a defensive pact with recently) was +11, Caesar was +7 and Roosevelt +6.
I decided that cancelling our pact with Asoka should improve our standing with the others, while taking a 1 hit on Asokas +11 wouldnt hurt too much. I was also going to switch civics to Mercantilism to impress Roosevelt, but couldnt do this before the first vote came up as we had only just set our civics and had to wait.
The Vote
I decided I had to see how the vote went rather than choosing one of the lesser resolutions. That would have no point. It looked good, as Asoka was still +11 despite the cancellation of our def pact. Roosevelt had gone up to +8 and Caesar on +9. They all liked Huayna much less.
Well, we won it and on the first vote too !!
We got 568 out of 876 with 543 required.
The votes went:
Huayna votes for Huayna (205)
We vote for ourselves (108)
Roosevelt votes for us. ( 185)
Asoka votes for us. ( 104)
Caesar votes for us. ( 171)
Isabella abstained. (104)
So all my supporters came up trumps, while Huaynas sole one deserted him. Satisfying.
Afternote
The Viking nature was so changed in this game. The early violence was carried out with swordsmen. On checking back after the end, I realised that I only built 2 Berserkers and didnt use either of them in combat !
Where We left Ragnar
In 500AD, the Viking empire was exultant at having wiped out their near neighbours, the Russians.
See early years post here
However, this had left us rather behind on tech, and slightly pressed financially. This required a rethink, which at the time I considered to be a temporary phase, though it became my entire strategy.
A very useful meeting
Almost at once, while trying to map out the lands to the east, we found the Spanish coastline. But Isabella was not the useful meeting. No. Roosevelt was busy attacking her, and meeting him turned out to be just one of the things that fell very nicely into place in this game.
He immediately struck me as a tech trading partner, as he was slightly less advanced than the ones Id already met, and lacked some of my tech, but possessed various others I didnt have. We started off in a small way by trading him HorseRiding for 3 tech, but we came back later
Tech Chasing in the middle years
Having sorted our economy a bit with the introduction of courthouses, we spent much of the middle game researching like crazy setting up some Gt People factories once we got libraries in lots of micro-management to get research and Gt People rates high as possible always chasing the leading pack.
But each time we got a new tech (and I was careful to pick advanced techs rather than filling in more ancient ones) I was able to trade it to Roosevelt, me old chum, in exchange for several of his tech.
We did this with HorseRiding (as I said), then Civil Service and Paper.
When I got Education I found that several werent there yet, and I traded it to Asoka too. Only Caesar held out. He was a tech leader throughout, and I often wondered if I would ever catch him.
Virtue of a Necessity
During this middle stage I decided that there was no purpose to be gained in Vikingly pursuits, like conquest and pillage. Wed had our brash early years. Now we should try to make our impact on the world in some other way. I decided on a diplomatic route, somewhere in these years. It is, I think, the earliest I had decided to go for a diplomatic victory and certainly the only time I have achieved one having been working towards it for so long.
Great People
This is something else new in my games. Of course, Ive had great people before, but this time I was really pushing for them and managed to get a total of 9 2 prophets, 2 artists and 5 scientists. Not world-beating, I know, but a definite improvement. These all helped with light-bulbing tech.
Friends and Enemies
Since I knew I was heading for a diplomatic victory, I kept a close eye on my dealings with my friends who were Roosevelt, Asoka and Caesar. I made sure not to upset them too much by trading with the others, and I adjusted civics from time to time to impress them (though not at the expense of affecting my research). I also kept a careful eye on the gruesome twosome Isabella and Huayna Capac. Though I never went to war with them, I often expected them to declare on me. My military was never big enough, and so I kept producing a steady stream in the hope it would deter anyone who fancied their chances.
I also accepted a defensive pact with Roosevelt, which hopefully kept others off our backs though it did, of course, dent our relationships with Asoka and Caesar.
The push for the UN
From about 1700 onwards I was closing in on Mass Media, desperate to get there before Caesar, who had always got every tech I was researching about 4 turns before me.
I went Physics, Electricity, Radio, Mass Media. Each time I traded them off in exchange for tech or wads of cash. Not Mass Media, of course. That I wanted for myself.
I started thinking ahead to the UN elections. I decided Huayna would be my rival, assuming I built it, as he had the largest population. This was generally good news, as he wasnt well liked, except by Isabella.
Roosevelt threw a small spanner in the works by scrapping our defensive pact and declaring on Isabella. My main concern was not the loss of the pact, but that he might increase his population enough to become my UN rival. He was popular, unlike Huayna, and could cause me massive problems.
By the way, he also invited me into his war, which caused me some mental anguish over my decision. I wanted to keep everyone close friends, so refusing his offer wasnt good news, but on balance I felt that an angry Isabella might actually damage me more permanently if I declared on her.
As the time grew close, there was another semi-shock. Someone beat us to Mass Media, and it wasnt Caesar! It was Huayna! I was hot on his heels though.
Building the UN
We got Mass Media in 1843. I wish Id thought of it earlier, but a Gt Engineer would have been very handy at this point. By the time I did think of it, there was no hope of getting one in time.
Nidaros was my biggest builder, but the UN would have taken over 100 turns. Not good!
Some quick and risky trading. I sold my beloved Mass Media to Asoka for Assembly Line. Then I switched to Uni Suff and bought a forge in Nidaros.
Turning research off to swell the gold vaults, we bought a factory in Nidaros, and started the UN.
It was still going to take 60 turns, but our gold was growing at over 500 per turn.
I watched each turn as the gold increased and the amount needed to buy the UN decreased as we built more of it. Would they meet in the middle before Huayna completed?
In 1873 we realised that it had worked!! We bought the UN !!
Final Years
Well, wed got the UN. Now we needed to use it wisely. No, really! This was important. Caesar had just completed his Apollo Program and if we didnt get our diplomacy right, wed see him heading off on a vapour trail
With some small relief, we saw that Huayna was our competitor for the secretariat.
We won this vote easily, with 560 out of 863 votes and 345 needed. The votes went exactly where expected with Asoka, Roosevelt and Caesar behind me, and only Isabella behind Huayna.
How to get the win? Well, if they all voted like they did there, wed get it, as the target is 535 to win.
However, they might not be as willing this time. I checked around. Asoka (who wed signed a defensive pact with recently) was +11, Caesar was +7 and Roosevelt +6.
I decided that cancelling our pact with Asoka should improve our standing with the others, while taking a 1 hit on Asokas +11 wouldnt hurt too much. I was also going to switch civics to Mercantilism to impress Roosevelt, but couldnt do this before the first vote came up as we had only just set our civics and had to wait.
The Vote
I decided I had to see how the vote went rather than choosing one of the lesser resolutions. That would have no point. It looked good, as Asoka was still +11 despite the cancellation of our def pact. Roosevelt had gone up to +8 and Caesar on +9. They all liked Huayna much less.
Well, we won it and on the first vote too !!
We got 568 out of 876 with 543 required.
The votes went:
Huayna votes for Huayna (205)
We vote for ourselves (108)
Roosevelt votes for us. ( 185)
Asoka votes for us. ( 104)
Caesar votes for us. ( 171)
Isabella abstained. (104)
So all my supporters came up trumps, while Huaynas sole one deserted him. Satisfying.
Afternote
The Viking nature was so changed in this game. The early violence was carried out with swordsmen. On checking back after the end, I realised that I only built 2 Berserkers and didnt use either of them in combat !
I'm not convinced it was commerce-friendly. Sure, at the beginning it was because of all the coastal tiles, but in the end game, towns give far more commerce than coast, and there were very few locations on the map where you could build a good city that could largely work towns without having to work a significant amount of coast too (and in my game, in only one of those locations, by the dyes in Russia, did anyone actually build a city). Add to that that Issy, Asoka, and Caesar had very little decent land outside their capital radii...
EDIT: Sea-based tends to delay the AIs finding each other and starting to trade techs amongst themselves. Depending how aggressively the human player beelines for alphabet and trades, I'm guessing that may slow things down a bit too.
I gotta say I really feel for anyone who tried to go domination. At the end of my conquesting, Viking culture covered just about everywhere of significance (the only main exception being Spain, where most cities were still in revolt), yet I still apparently had only 57% landmass.
500AD saw me about to invade Russia. I did that and took over Cathys continent, which meant I had twice as many cities and still next to no production. I really wanted to invade Caesar since he had the Great Lighthouse and the Oracle, but the only realistic route was via India, so I invaded India instead, capturing Delhi and razing almost everything else. Then my troops headed westwards.
Weird Happenings
My most exciting turn was when astronomy apparently invented itself. Yes, really! This dialog suddenly appeared totally out of the blue, when I was 1 turn away from liberalism.
After talking to Gyathaar I/we figured expanding cultural borders mustve popped a goody hut somewhere (I now suspect the one on the island South of Nidaros). At any rate it provided some compensation for the very next message which informed me Caesar had just beaten me to liberalism by one turn.
Well with my new 6-movement galleons invading Caesar was easy. But something else weird happened:
In this screenshot you can see two cities Id razed (as arrows), but for some reason Cumaes borders refused to collapse. As I recall, they persisted until I captured Rome.
Then later on some of my units suddenly appeared on an island in the middle of nowhere. (The only explanation I can think of is perhaps I misclicked some turns earlier and sent a galleon loaded with units there or something. But in that case wheres the galleon?)
Conquest
At this point I had still been thinking in terms of capturing key wonders, then heading for space, but I was now starting to realize my game was turning into a conquest game by default so I just went with that flow and sent my beserkers over to say hi to Huayna. For some reason he didnt seem to appreciate their visit, but my beserkers sure enjoyed munching all those bananas. I guess its possible they might have got a bit drunk and accidentally captured a few cities, you know what Vikings can be like
The great thing about conquesting so late is that your economy is strong enough that you can keep most cities you take, thus helping your final score. Conquest is also less monotonous on a sea-based map because you have the nice logistical issue of making sure all your boats are in the right place to ferry your troops, plus since you can reach most cities by boat, youre not trudging your troops 1-tile at a time through enemy territory, at the pace of your slowest siege unit.
There wasnt much strategy beyond that, other than that after liberalism I beelined to democracy as fast as I could, just so I could get some extra production from my towns. The lack of production on the map really showed all round, with many AI cities only defended by 2 units as late as 1600. I also heavily delayed researching rifling, so that for quite a while, instead of building grenadiers, I could build beserkers, give them CR1, then upgrade them. I only abandoned that strategy when Roosevelt started throwing cavalry at my grenadiers and cannon, causing enough damage that I had to make peace with Washington still uncaptured.
I erased Issy from the map in 1784, at which point the only thing lying between me and victory was 5 Incan island-cities spread out across the world. At that point I was really glad for the promoted beserkers (now infantry), since 3 of those cities were on 1-tile islands that would have to be attacked from the sea. There was then a rush to see if I could finish Huayna off before the psychologically important turn of the century. I just did it captured his last city in 1798, only to find of course that the game doesnt award you the victory until the next turn!
When I saw how far away from the domination limit I was at the end, I was briefly tempted to leave Huayna with one last city and instead build my empire to try and go for the cow award. With hindsight Im slightly sorry I didnt do that now, Im pretty sure it wouldve been a very easy cow (albeit a rather boring 244 additional turns).
One final point: My game seems to be giving me some additional save files with names starting Rag_Mon_Sta_... , as well as the saves Im taking manually:
Anyone know what thats about?
500AD saw me about to invade Russia. I did that and took over Cathys continent, which meant I had twice as many cities and still next to no production. I really wanted to invade Caesar since he had the Great Lighthouse and the Oracle, but the only realistic route was via India, so I invaded India instead, capturing Delhi and razing almost everything else. Then my troops headed westwards.
Weird Happenings
My most exciting turn was when astronomy apparently invented itself. Yes, really! This dialog suddenly appeared totally out of the blue, when I was 1 turn away from liberalism.
After talking to Gyathaar I/we figured expanding cultural borders mustve popped a goody hut somewhere (I now suspect the one on the island South of Nidaros). At any rate it provided some compensation for the very next message which informed me Caesar had just beaten me to liberalism by one turn.
Well with my new 6-movement galleons invading Caesar was easy. But something else weird happened:
In this screenshot you can see two cities Id razed (as arrows), but for some reason Cumaes borders refused to collapse. As I recall, they persisted until I captured Rome.
Then later on some of my units suddenly appeared on an island in the middle of nowhere. (The only explanation I can think of is perhaps I misclicked some turns earlier and sent a galleon loaded with units there or something. But in that case wheres the galleon?)
Conquest
At this point I had still been thinking in terms of capturing key wonders, then heading for space, but I was now starting to realize my game was turning into a conquest game by default so I just went with that flow and sent my beserkers over to say hi to Huayna. For some reason he didnt seem to appreciate their visit, but my beserkers sure enjoyed munching all those bananas. I guess its possible they might have got a bit drunk and accidentally captured a few cities, you know what Vikings can be like
The great thing about conquesting so late is that your economy is strong enough that you can keep most cities you take, thus helping your final score. Conquest is also less monotonous on a sea-based map because you have the nice logistical issue of making sure all your boats are in the right place to ferry your troops, plus since you can reach most cities by boat, youre not trudging your troops 1-tile at a time through enemy territory, at the pace of your slowest siege unit.
There wasnt much strategy beyond that, other than that after liberalism I beelined to democracy as fast as I could, just so I could get some extra production from my towns. The lack of production on the map really showed all round, with many AI cities only defended by 2 units as late as 1600. I also heavily delayed researching rifling, so that for quite a while, instead of building grenadiers, I could build beserkers, give them CR1, then upgrade them. I only abandoned that strategy when Roosevelt started throwing cavalry at my grenadiers and cannon, causing enough damage that I had to make peace with Washington still uncaptured.
I erased Issy from the map in 1784, at which point the only thing lying between me and victory was 5 Incan island-cities spread out across the world. At that point I was really glad for the promoted beserkers (now infantry), since 3 of those cities were on 1-tile islands that would have to be attacked from the sea. There was then a rush to see if I could finish Huayna off before the psychologically important turn of the century. I just did it captured his last city in 1798, only to find of course that the game doesnt award you the victory until the next turn!
When I saw how far away from the domination limit I was at the end, I was briefly tempted to leave Huayna with one last city and instead build my empire to try and go for the cow award. With hindsight Im slightly sorry I didnt do that now, Im pretty sure it wouldve been a very easy cow (albeit a rather boring 244 additional turns).
One final point: My game seems to be giving me some additional save files with names starting Rag_Mon_Sta_... , as well as the saves Im taking manually:
Anyone know what thats about?
AgedOne
Emperor
Hi
I think they're the result of ticking the boxes on HOF tab 3 of the Options, called something like "Create starting save" and "Create save on exit".
The name is the combination of Ragnar, Monarch, Start etc.
While I'm here - congratulations on your uber-Viking performance in wiping out the world!
I couldn't help but be amused at the contrast with my own effort, successful though it was, in which my 2 solitary Berserks stayed home and quaffed the local ale rather than seeing off the enemy.The different approach shows in the score!
spacemanmf
Stalwart
@DynamicSpirit:
I much prefer land-based domination attempts. I just can't be bothered with sea-based invasions (load up the boats, unload the boats, load them up again!) and so whenever confronted with island maps I try to go with what takes as little effort as possible.
In this case, I did conquer Catherine but then ran out of mental energy, couldn't face another space race and, given that most of the world didn't actually mind me too much, I set myself the challenge of a rare diplomatic victory.
To speed up this process, I actually cash-rushed the UN (for about 11,000), definitely a first for me and something I think I picked up from the Realms Beyond site.
But then, although the world liked me (well, most of them), and they voted me in as Sec Gen, they didn't like me quite enough. Which kinda buggered up my plan. Still, I didn't give up. There was a bit of warring that had started, with a couple declaring on the Incans (I think), so for the mutual war bonus I joined in (without lifting a finger, except to fend of Incan destroyers).
The Indians and Romans gradually got on board, but still the Americans wouldn't play ball, favouring the Spanish over me. So I switched to their favourite civic and encouraged them to do the same (I didn't think this latter bit was needed but it helped). I had also gifted them techs and resources until I had little left spare. And still Roosevelt didn't like me enough.
For a short while he wouldn't declare on anyone (perhaps a peace treaty, I don't know), but finally I could bribe him to attack the Incans, and the mutual struggle bonus got me the required votes, a fair while after I got the UN but not *that* long.
I think with the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus, this wasn't a bad commerce generator, and after a slow start I surged into a tech lead. The frustrating thing was production.
My genius moment was getting Astronomy with Liberalism (for the Galleons) but not realising that the Colossus would be obsoleted (I even checked!). Sheer class.
I much prefer land-based domination attempts. I just can't be bothered with sea-based invasions (load up the boats, unload the boats, load them up again!) and so whenever confronted with island maps I try to go with what takes as little effort as possible.
In this case, I did conquer Catherine but then ran out of mental energy, couldn't face another space race and, given that most of the world didn't actually mind me too much, I set myself the challenge of a rare diplomatic victory.
To speed up this process, I actually cash-rushed the UN (for about 11,000), definitely a first for me and something I think I picked up from the Realms Beyond site.
But then, although the world liked me (well, most of them), and they voted me in as Sec Gen, they didn't like me quite enough. Which kinda buggered up my plan. Still, I didn't give up. There was a bit of warring that had started, with a couple declaring on the Incans (I think), so for the mutual war bonus I joined in (without lifting a finger, except to fend of Incan destroyers).
The Indians and Romans gradually got on board, but still the Americans wouldn't play ball, favouring the Spanish over me. So I switched to their favourite civic and encouraged them to do the same (I didn't think this latter bit was needed but it helped). I had also gifted them techs and resources until I had little left spare. And still Roosevelt didn't like me enough.
For a short while he wouldn't declare on anyone (perhaps a peace treaty, I don't know), but finally I could bribe him to attack the Incans, and the mutual struggle bonus got me the required votes, a fair while after I got the UN but not *that* long.
I think with the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus, this wasn't a bad commerce generator, and after a slow start I surged into a tech lead. The frustrating thing was production.
My genius moment was getting Astronomy with Liberalism (for the Galleons) but not realising that the Colossus would be obsoleted (I even checked!). Sheer class.
As described in the first spoiler by 500 AD I had accumulated a substantial tech lead and was the only civ with CS and Machinery. That situation held for quite a while
I dont know what the AI was teching but being the only civ with Bureaucracy and macemen felt like a good thing.
The next stage was prepping for the first conquest, Haya as he had the Great Lighthouse and then Roosevelt for the Pyramids. Russia was the more obvious first conquest but I wanted good military production sites and Haya had some beautiful grasslands ripe for workshop spamming. I would have Chemistry and State Property around this time and converting 2-3 of his cities to military should carry me through. Having the GL sealed his fate. I had great relations with Russia and Augustus so I wasnt worried about getting stabbed in the back.
As with overbuilding my initial cities, I probably overbuild for the first war. The plan is to build 10-15 maces and about 10 cats with the associated galleys. It takes from 500 AD to 1352 AD when Im locked and loaded outside the Hayass gates and thats about 80 turns. By this time Ive teched Liberalism and taken Chemistry as the free tech so now Im going to my first war with some macemen, but mostly grenadiers and cats. Oh, and by that time Ive got astronomy so I upgrade the galleys to galleons. Definitely too long getting started so thats going to really hurt the score. I should have rushed Russia with swords and cats early on and started warring 100 turns earlier.
Anyway I wont bore you with all the details so heres an overview of the warring:
So it felt slow and I know I should have done better. It took about 200 turns to get the main island through the initial phase, then 80 turns to build up for the first fight then only 91 turns to conquer the world. Finished in 1706 with ~115k but Im sure the top players will post over 200k. I dont feel like playing the game over again and trying some different approaches
its funny because after losing in the deity game I had no problem playing over and over (and losing over and over trying to win culturally until I finally tried diplomatic for the first time ever and won).
The next stage was prepping for the first conquest, Haya as he had the Great Lighthouse and then Roosevelt for the Pyramids. Russia was the more obvious first conquest but I wanted good military production sites and Haya had some beautiful grasslands ripe for workshop spamming. I would have Chemistry and State Property around this time and converting 2-3 of his cities to military should carry me through. Having the GL sealed his fate. I had great relations with Russia and Augustus so I wasnt worried about getting stabbed in the back.
As with overbuilding my initial cities, I probably overbuild for the first war. The plan is to build 10-15 maces and about 10 cats with the associated galleys. It takes from 500 AD to 1352 AD when Im locked and loaded outside the Hayass gates and thats about 80 turns. By this time Ive teched Liberalism and taken Chemistry as the free tech so now Im going to my first war with some macemen, but mostly grenadiers and cats. Oh, and by that time Ive got astronomy so I upgrade the galleys to galleons. Definitely too long getting started so thats going to really hurt the score. I should have rushed Russia with swords and cats early on and started warring 100 turns earlier.
Anyway I wont bore you with all the details so heres an overview of the warring:
Spoiler :
mushroomshirt
King
Well I managed a conquest victory in 1694 AD for a final score of 76216. At the end here, the game looked a lot more like a domination game than a conquest game.
Shortly after 1AD I attacked HC thinking that I could go through him to get to America and the pyramids. Stupidly, I of course could not get there going that direction so I should have attacked Catherine first. When I finally did conquer the pyramids I decided to take US instead of police state. I was so hammer poor & had so many towns that this was actually better from a production standpoint! I guess I should have used the whip more.
In any case I capitulated everyone which was nice on a water map since you didn't necessarily have to go chasing all the little cities on tiny islands and could just take out the main landmass. Takes some of the tedium out of the end-game I think.
I delayed astronomy for a looooong time since I was able to capture the colossus from the Romans. When Russian galleons showed up I had to get it fast, but not before losing 4 or 6 of my galleys trying to pick that galleon off. Really, really stupid on my part. This bone-head move alone probably cost me 25 turns.
Anyway I enjoyed this game. It was great upgrading berserkers to grenadiers and seeing the amphibious promotion stick - somehow I thought it would go away. I teched to rifling & artillery (about 1 turn before the game ended) but I didn't need either. My grenadiers would have been enough. In the end I had a great thing going where I would land a massive force of cats and totally destroy a city's defenses then take the city with a massive amphibious assault of grenadiers.
Great game! Like WOTM5, I really enjoyed this one. Thanks Gyathaar!
Shortly after 1AD I attacked HC thinking that I could go through him to get to America and the pyramids. Stupidly, I of course could not get there going that direction so I should have attacked Catherine first. When I finally did conquer the pyramids I decided to take US instead of police state. I was so hammer poor & had so many towns that this was actually better from a production standpoint! I guess I should have used the whip more.
In any case I capitulated everyone which was nice on a water map since you didn't necessarily have to go chasing all the little cities on tiny islands and could just take out the main landmass. Takes some of the tedium out of the end-game I think.
I delayed astronomy for a looooong time since I was able to capture the colossus from the Romans. When Russian galleons showed up I had to get it fast, but not before losing 4 or 6 of my galleys trying to pick that galleon off. Really, really stupid on my part. This bone-head move alone probably cost me 25 turns.
Anyway I enjoyed this game. It was great upgrading berserkers to grenadiers and seeing the amphibious promotion stick - somehow I thought it would go away. I teched to rifling & artillery (about 1 turn before the game ended) but I didn't need either. My grenadiers would have been enough. In the end I had a great thing going where I would land a massive force of cats and totally destroy a city's defenses then take the city with a massive amphibious assault of grenadiers.
Great game! Like WOTM5, I really enjoyed this one. Thanks Gyathaar!
Ooooh I'm jealous! I kept trying to capitulate people to speed my game up but for some reason noone was willing to do so. I'd have a civ reduced to one or two useless tundra-bound cities and they'd still insist they were doing fine on their own.
I suppose you're right. The map isn't as good for commerce as I was giving it credit for. Especially with the kind of land some of the civs were restricted to.
mushroomshirt
King
I could only get them to capitulate when they only had 2 or 3 really poor cities left. Caesar had incredibly negative modifiers with me since I razed almost all of his cities and he still capitulated. Wonder why they wouldn't give in on your game?
This was a very strange game for me. Limited warfare (taking out H.C. with berserkers) and gifting tech to speed up the global tech progress is not my typical way of playing Civ 
I built the Great Lighthouse and sent out workboats to explore. I focused on research and was first to Liberalism. There was no real competition, and I could not trade tech with anyone any longer. So I gifted four techs to each civ, but that didn't help very much. I sold techs for about 50 gold each, occasionally trading for AI tech. Built workshops in the end to create production cities. Got the final three space ship parts within three turns. Bye bye Gaia.
I built the Great Lighthouse and sent out workboats to explore. I focused on research and was first to Liberalism. There was no real competition, and I could not trade tech with anyone any longer. So I gifted four techs to each civ, but that didn't help very much. I sold techs for about 50 gold each, occasionally trading for AI tech. Built workshops in the end to create production cities. Got the final three space ship parts within three turns. Bye bye Gaia.
Is there a thread that discusses the mechanics of capitulation? Does it depend on your +/- relationship with them, the civs charactoristics, your population or power ratio compared to them, how many cities you've conquered, is there are minimum number of turns involved, etc.
Most of the time civs capitulate as expected but sometimes you're surprised with an early offer and other times you have to chase down every last city.
RobertTheBruce
King
Conquest in 1532. 112k score
In 500AD, I had eliminated Cathy and was starting to build Berserkers. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5122845&postcount=6
Techs and civics
I paused for a bit too long before declaring war on Roosevelt in 920AD. It was hard producing enough Berserkers and boats to start the invasion. Roosevelt capitulated in 1262AD after I had captured most of his cities including the wonder filled Washington. In 1244, I had finished researching Chemistry and revolted to Police State and Vassalage while finishing the war with Roosevelt. I then shut off research to upgrade berserkers to amphibious grenadiers, galleys to galleons, and triremes and caravels to frigates. A second great general in 1220 built a military academy in Birka so I can produce a berserker every 2 turns and upgrade to a city raider, amphibious grenadier.
Initially, I was planning to take over the world with amphibious berserkers but it just didn't work well. I had to land troops at every city in America to bombard the cultural defences so the amphibious promotion didn't help. I think a couple of reinforcement berserkers attacked from a boat but most troops were on land to protect my siege equipment.
The upgrades to grenadiers were really required to attack amphibiously. A mix of grenadiers and berserkers would have been fine if the frigates had performed as I expected but I ended with a pure grenadier force. (I also overbuilt my economy. After shutting down research, I have so much money that I can upgrade everything, not just select units. I kept almost all cities and still had surplus cash.) I built a lot of triremes and caravels to make a stack of 10 frigates. I thought I could pull up to a city, shell the defences, and attack with grenadiers and berserkers. Unfortunately, frigates do limited bombardment against cities with walls and were almost totally useless against Spanish citadels. I don't understand why walls and castle bombardment bonuses apply to ships which use gunpowder.
I had focussed my initial upgrades on boats and didn't have enough grenadiers to attack by sea so I was still landing stacks to strip cultural defences for my berserkers against Asoka. Grenadiers are such heavy favorites against longbows that 20 or 40% cultural defences just don't matter.
War with Asoka: 1286-1334 (Capitulation) I take all Asoka's coastal cities and have enough grenadiers to now just strip half the cultural defences with the frigates and attack from boats.
Augustus 1340-1424 (capitulation). My military is now rolling and another great general (1376) is settled in Birka so I can produce a CR3, amphibious grenadier every 2 turns. My other cities produce CR2, amphibious grenadiers, boats, and garrison units. Augustus refused to capitulate until I took a couple of inland cities which delayed me a few turns.
Huanya 1430-1478 (Capitulation). My fleet of death is now unstoppable. I have about 15 frigates to strip defences and a huge stack of raider grenadiers. Huanya still has longbows and is destroyed before he can start to mount a defence. He is left with 2 small island cities.
Isabella 1484-1532 (Eliminated): The citadels are frustrating but I still get 70% odds with CR3, cover grenadiers against longbows and can afford losses. Isabella won't capitulate and I waste 4 turns tracking down her last few island cities.
The city raider, amphibious grenadiers were unstoppable. The grenadiers don't suffer much damage against longbows and wounded units can just sit in boats healing while the stack moves from city to city. I should have skipped Education and Printing Press and researched Chemistry earlier. I had so much money from capturing cities that I didn't need the extra commerce for upgrades and I lost the Liberalism race so Education was only useful for the Military Academy.
In 500AD, I had eliminated Cathy and was starting to build Berserkers. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5122845&postcount=6
Techs and civics
Spoiler :
I paused for a bit too long before declaring war on Roosevelt in 920AD. It was hard producing enough Berserkers and boats to start the invasion. Roosevelt capitulated in 1262AD after I had captured most of his cities including the wonder filled Washington. In 1244, I had finished researching Chemistry and revolted to Police State and Vassalage while finishing the war with Roosevelt. I then shut off research to upgrade berserkers to amphibious grenadiers, galleys to galleons, and triremes and caravels to frigates. A second great general in 1220 built a military academy in Birka so I can produce a berserker every 2 turns and upgrade to a city raider, amphibious grenadier.
Initially, I was planning to take over the world with amphibious berserkers but it just didn't work well. I had to land troops at every city in America to bombard the cultural defences so the amphibious promotion didn't help. I think a couple of reinforcement berserkers attacked from a boat but most troops were on land to protect my siege equipment.
The upgrades to grenadiers were really required to attack amphibiously. A mix of grenadiers and berserkers would have been fine if the frigates had performed as I expected but I ended with a pure grenadier force. (I also overbuilt my economy. After shutting down research, I have so much money that I can upgrade everything, not just select units. I kept almost all cities and still had surplus cash.) I built a lot of triremes and caravels to make a stack of 10 frigates. I thought I could pull up to a city, shell the defences, and attack with grenadiers and berserkers. Unfortunately, frigates do limited bombardment against cities with walls and were almost totally useless against Spanish citadels. I don't understand why walls and castle bombardment bonuses apply to ships which use gunpowder.
I had focussed my initial upgrades on boats and didn't have enough grenadiers to attack by sea so I was still landing stacks to strip cultural defences for my berserkers against Asoka. Grenadiers are such heavy favorites against longbows that 20 or 40% cultural defences just don't matter.
War with Asoka: 1286-1334 (Capitulation) I take all Asoka's coastal cities and have enough grenadiers to now just strip half the cultural defences with the frigates and attack from boats.
Augustus 1340-1424 (capitulation). My military is now rolling and another great general (1376) is settled in Birka so I can produce a CR3, amphibious grenadier every 2 turns. My other cities produce CR2, amphibious grenadiers, boats, and garrison units. Augustus refused to capitulate until I took a couple of inland cities which delayed me a few turns.
Huanya 1430-1478 (Capitulation). My fleet of death is now unstoppable. I have about 15 frigates to strip defences and a huge stack of raider grenadiers. Huanya still has longbows and is destroyed before he can start to mount a defence. He is left with 2 small island cities.
Isabella 1484-1532 (Eliminated): The citadels are frustrating but I still get 70% odds with CR3, cover grenadiers against longbows and can afford losses. Isabella won't capitulate and I waste 4 turns tracking down her last few island cities.
The city raider, amphibious grenadiers were unstoppable. The grenadiers don't suffer much damage against longbows and wounded units can just sit in boats healing while the stack moves from city to city. I should have skipped Education and Printing Press and researched Chemistry earlier. I had so much money from capturing cities that I didn't need the extra commerce for upgrades and I lost the Liberalism race so Education was only useful for the Military Academy.
it's power ratio, and it's personality dependant.
I capitulated russia when I had razed 2 (well 3 if you count the one I razed twice) and captured 3 cities from Cathy.
She still had a good deal of quite correct cities. No production but good commerce.
Then, I went after Isabella (than no one liked), took her capital and 2 more cities + razed a few more, but whe wasn't willing to capitulate yet, probably because she had her citadells and conquistadores in the remaining cities.
Then I sent my galleon to unload my rifles on a hill without thinking that in the FoW there could be a frigate.
And indeed there was a frigate. My army met the titanic, and I quit.
I was going nowhere anyway, and I had geiven my self a huge deal of unhappiness to draft those rifles. I wasn't willing to sue for peace and start again.
Back door diplomacy for me... circa 50K points, around 1860 or so... I was going for domination, but I guess alot of the land must be tied up in the icecaps because I was at about 48%, and had bassically all useful land accept for Washington and Osaka.
I was bassically tied for the tech lead with Osaka, and 2 or 3 techs ahead of Washington. All of us had Maching guns, Artiliray, tanks, destroyers, and infantry. I was number 1 in power, maybe 5% ahead of Washington. Each had about 12% land, so I would have needed to take out both. To make matters worse, they had a defensive pack with each other.... So... I wimped out... Built the US, and voted myself the
.
I was bassically tied for the tech lead with Osaka, and 2 or 3 techs ahead of Washington. All of us had Maching guns, Artiliray, tanks, destroyers, and infantry. I was number 1 in power, maybe 5% ahead of Washington. Each had about 12% land, so I would have needed to take out both. To make matters worse, they had a defensive pack with each other.... So... I wimped out... Built the US, and voted myself the
.Continuing on from my first spoiler -
With Stonehenge putting out prophet points, I was a little concerned about what to do with them; the sudden thought I had was to get Theology. I did, and founded Christianity. The reason wasn't just for the money (and being able to build temples) but also because the AI tends to be very happy to trade for this tech but not very happy to offer it.
I didn't adopt a religion. All the other civs merrily adopted different religions leaving me as the liked person in the middle merrily trading away, and roughly keeping up in tech most of the way through the game. Huyuana beat me to Liberalism though. Asoka offered a Defensive Pact, and I signed not quite trusting Julius, what with his Power graph shooting upwards. Russia started falling behind on tech and I was contemplating building a bunch of rifles to go and invade, thinking I'd need the extra cities for tech pace later, but a bit worried about losing the DP...
...when Cathy declared war on me In typical AI madness she landed two trebuchets and a maceman (who were promptly shot) and that was it. I dropped two rifles and a cavalry off to go pillaging Russia, and left Cathy and Asoka to fight while I built a proper invasion force. By the time Cathy and Asoka agreed peace, my troops were ready, and Russian cities started falling.
Meanwhile, I'd bee-lined to the UN, and my opponent was Roosevelt. But while I was a shoe-in for Secretary General, two rotten abstainers denied me the victory. Even after Russia's cities had fallen to me, it wasn't going to be enough.
And Huyuana had completed Apollo...
This is where if it had been a human opponent, I would have lost miserably, but the AI is pants at the end-game. I researched Computers first, made sure I had plenty of labs and Factories, and timed Apollo for a point where I could set just about every city building a part at once. Judging by the slow pace it turned parts out, the AI must have had it's heart set on the same couple of cities building each part in turn. Oh, and I spent a couple of engineers getting the Space Elevator. The AI's tech pace also seemed to slow miserably as they went settling every rock in the ocean and built enormous armies (their power was much much higher than mine).
Result: Space-Beserkers in 1956. Only 10340 points, but my first win on Monarch
With Stonehenge putting out prophet points, I was a little concerned about what to do with them; the sudden thought I had was to get Theology. I did, and founded Christianity. The reason wasn't just for the money (and being able to build temples) but also because the AI tends to be very happy to trade for this tech but not very happy to offer it.
I didn't adopt a religion. All the other civs merrily adopted different religions leaving me as the liked person in the middle merrily trading away, and roughly keeping up in tech most of the way through the game. Huyuana beat me to Liberalism though. Asoka offered a Defensive Pact, and I signed not quite trusting Julius, what with his Power graph shooting upwards. Russia started falling behind on tech and I was contemplating building a bunch of rifles to go and invade, thinking I'd need the extra cities for tech pace later, but a bit worried about losing the DP...
...when Cathy declared war on me
In typical AI madness she landed two trebuchets and a maceman (who were promptly shot) and that was it. I dropped two rifles and a cavalry off to go pillaging Russia, and left Cathy and Asoka to fight while I built a proper invasion force. By the time Cathy and Asoka agreed peace, my troops were ready, and Russian cities started falling.Meanwhile, I'd bee-lined to the UN, and my opponent was Roosevelt. But while I was a shoe-in for Secretary General, two rotten abstainers denied me the victory. Even after Russia's cities had fallen to me, it wasn't going to be enough.
And Huyuana had completed Apollo...
This is where if it had been a human opponent, I would have lost miserably, but the AI is pants at the end-game. I researched Computers first, made sure I had plenty of labs and Factories, and timed Apollo for a point where I could set just about every city building a part at once. Judging by the slow pace it turned parts out, the AI must have had it's heart set on the same couple of cities building each part in turn. Oh, and I spent a couple of engineers getting the Space Elevator. The AI's tech pace also seemed to slow miserably as they went settling every rock in the ocean and built enormous armies (their power was much much higher than mine).
Result: Space-Beserkers in 1956. Only 10340 points, but my first win on Monarch
Similar threads
