WOTM 08 Final Spoiler

[ainwood]

WOTM 08 Final Spoiler

Reading Requirements

1. You must have completed & submitted your game.

Posting Restrictions

1. Please don't show any screenshots, nor discuss, the locations of any modern resources (aluminium, uranium, coal).

 

[ccccc]

My first time in a "final spoiler" --- does oil count as a modern resource too?

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

D'oh thought I was going to be first, serves me right for rambling.

My note taking during this game was pretty slack so will have to do this from memory. After settling my half of continent, looked to set up large trade and specialist foundation in a couple of cities. I didn't really check out Mansa's land too much as he proved a good trading partner early and I wasn't ever really in a position to take him after my earlier set backs. I got to Optics and set sail and met the other continent, and set forth to get to MM asap, I eventually built UN in appox mid 1600's.
Unfortunately as per usual I had left it far too late to try and sort out diplo situation to be able to be quickly voted in. The whole other continent hated Mansa, and unfortunately thus took that out on me a bit. They were all Buddhist we weren't. I had tried to sneak Buddhism by settling a couple of new cities but they just brought in religions I already had. Fortunately Stalin had been at war with Elizabeth and had took her down to a couple of cities. I forced him to peace with her to save at least one for me, put together a few troops and sent them over to take Nottingham, quickly rushed a few missionaries to spread it in the homeland.
I was hoping/assuming that I would get a decent positive diplo bonus as soon as I switched but had to wait for it to build up over time/more I spread through main cities. During this time unfortunately Mansu had become a bit upset that I was now ignoring him and playing with my new friends to the point he DOW'd on me. Fortunately he had ignored his millitary so his initial attacks were comfortably beaten back and now I was in a position to move on into his lands.
JC also Dow'd on me setting his sites on Nottingham, as I didn't need this city anymore, but rather save it from the evil romans I gifted it to Stalin, and tried to get everyone to gang up on JC, only Stalin did but he took a couple of Roman outer cities to help gain a couple more votes.
Eventually around 1780, manged through a combination of Mansa and JC losing cities to me and Stalin and Hannibal and Cyrus eventually giving me a decent religion diplo bonus managed to accrue enough votes for victory.
Final score was about 21k, as only still had a smallish empire/ingame score.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

My first time in a "final spoiler" --- does oil count as a modern resource too?

In the context of I should have been first, yes oil is surely a modern resource!!!
Delete his/her posting!!!!

 

[Amao]

D'oh thought I was going to be first, serves me right for rambling.

My note taking during this game was pretty slack so will have to do this from memory. After settling my half of continent, looked to set up large trade and specialist foundation in a couple of cities. I didn't really check out Mansa's land too much as he proved a good trading partner early and I wasn't ever really in a position to take him after my earlier set backs. I got to Optics and set sail and met the other continent, and set forth to get to MM asap, I eventually built UN in appox mid 1600's.
Unfortunately as per usual I had left it far too late to try and sort out diplo situation to be able to be quickly voted in. The whole other continent hated Mansa, and unfortunately thus took that out on me a bit. They were all Buddhist we weren't. I had tried to sneak Buddhism by settling a couple of new cities but they just brought in religions I already had. Fortunately Stalin had been at war with Elizabeth and had took her down to a couple of cities. I forced him to peace with her to save at least one for me, put together a few troops and sent them over to take Nottingham, quickly rushed a few missionaries to spread it in the homeland.
I was hoping/assuming that I would get a decent positive diplo bonus as soon as I switched but had to wait for it to build up over time/more I spread through main cities. During this time unfortunately Mansu had become a bit upset that I was now ignoring him and playing with my new friends to the point he DOW'd on me. Fortunately he had ignored his millitary so his initial attacks were comfortably beaten back and now I was in a position to move on into his lands.
JC also Dow'd on me setting his sites on Nottingham, as I didn't need this city anymore, but rather save it from the evil romans I gifted it to Stalin, and tried to get everyone to gang up on JC, only Stalin did but he took a couple of Roman outer cities to help gain a couple more votes.
Eventually around 1780, manged through a combination of Mansa and JC losing cities to me and Stalin and Hannibal and Cyrus eventually giving me a decent religion diplo bonus managed to accrue enough votes for victory.
Final score was about 21k, as only still had a smallish empire/ingame score.

It looked like we had the same religious issue. Mansa and I together popped all religion except Buddism. (It was my fault , Mansa only popped 2 of the 6.) So, the other continent united as a rock. I really had a hard time invading them and my score sucked as well. Domination in 1685AD.

 

[Harbourboy]

How embarrassing.

I had a space race LOSS to the Mansa Monster.

I fell so far behind that cultural was the only option I had left. I was on track, but there was nothing I could see to do to stop the SS Mali from lifting off.

 

[ccccc]

It's just that the oil situation completely determined how my game went.. I can't really describe things properly without talking about oil.

I had my first-ever modern age war! (It was fun)

 

[Erkon]

Another poor start by me. I stole a MM-worker that was building a mine on the golden flood plain . That put him back a lot, I presume. I settled two cities up north, and one south. I also built the GW and the Pyramids. Then I attacked Mansa, but I was about ten turns late (he just connected the iron), and I was very unlucky with the RND (lost a 90% win). The timing was awful. If I had followed my initial plan (chariot rush) I wouldn't have wasted as many units as I eventually did.

To cut a long story short, I destroyed MM, lightbulbed Machinery and Astronomy (avoided Meditation of course), and attacked the other continent (Stalin, Hannibal, Elisabeth, Cyrus and Julius), achieving a conquest victory in 1595 AD.

I made several mistakes:
Building the pyramids instead of chariots for a rush.
Farming the Flood Plains instead of cottaging them (lightbulbing is not as advantageous on Noble difficulty compared to higher levels)
Delayed Optics (wrong research focus).

I also think it would have been better to use MM as trade partner, and killing him last.

Thanks for the map, it was fun to play.

 

[Amao]

@Erkon:
When did you start the war on Mansa, and what kind of resistence you have on the other continent?

 

[Thrallia]

This was the most frustrating diplo game I've ever played.


I met the other continent around 750AD, everyone was soon mad at me for trading with their worst enemy...I thought it was because I was trading with all of them, but then realized it was because Mansa was hated by them all(except Elizabeth). So I bet the bullet, severed all relations with Mansa, and gave up my best trading partner at the time. Everyone had -4 relations for trading with him, and I went no religion the entire game since I founded no religions and Hinduism/Judaism migrated to a single city each.

I teched faster than I've ever done in a GOTM, and built the UN in 1680AD.

Just a few turns before, I had Cyrus +8, Hannibal +9, Stalin +9, Elizabeth +12, Caesar +9...the penalty for trading with the worst enemy had disappeared thanks to ignoring all of Mansa's friendly overtures for almost 1000 years. However, Mansa had been building up his military and I'd been ignoring the military techs...so in 1650AD, when he demanded Physics from me, I acquiesed to prevent him from warring with me...my military was entirely warriors and chariots still.

I had always thought that giving in to a demand didn't count as a trade...I was wrong though, because instantly everyone on the other continent went back to -4 for trading with the worst enemy(except Lizzy) which pretty much lost me my shot at fastest diplo.

Ensuing was the most frustrating diplo game I've ever had. Everyone refused to forget I had given in to his demands...Lizzy became a peaceful vassal to Stalin, and over the course of the next 100 years, I slowly increased my civics bonuses with Hannibal, Caesar and Cyrus...I finally got them all up to voting range again(Hannibal was at +8 and I needed him at +9, Cyrus was +9, Caesar was +8)...and the worst thing that could happen happens...Cyrus discovered Biology and surpasses Mansa in size, making him my opponent rather than Mansa being my opponent. I then almost LOST a diplo victory when Stalin(#3 in pop now) voted for Cyrus and all I had voting for me was Elizabeth(last in pop).

I gifted Biology to Lizzy and she traded it away to both Stalin and Mansa(yay!), and I hoped for my trade modifier to go away and for Mansa to pass Cyrus again...I spent the next 70 years doing that. It never happened. It is now 1890AD, I've almost finished the Apollo Program and only have 3 techs left to research before I'm done with all the spaceship techs.

I take note that Mansa is 25 votes behind Cyrus...so I gift Mansa 3 cities: 1892AD- gift Bursa(size 9)(next to the marble), Konya(size 9)(next to North wine), and Jute(size 13)(on top of north iron)

I then proceed to go blind and not see this message:
"Cyrus switches from Vassalage to Bureaucracy"

That removed my +4 for civics, but I didn't see that message...so when the next vote came, Mansa was largest by 3 votes...but I didn't win because I didn't get Cyrus' votes like I should have...that's when I realized what happened. Of course, the next vote, Cyrus has overtaken Mansa again...and I'm having to watch Mansa farm over the towns I built in those cities

I try switching to Bureaucracy to match Cyrus again, and also switch from Free Market to State Property to get civics points with Stalin. It doesn't work, I gain points with Stalin, lose points with Hannibal, and don't get anything with Cyrus.

In 1925AD, I finish the Apollo Program and all research is done for its parts...so if the next two votes don't work, I decide I'll just go for a mediocre to bad space race victory.

1929AD: I convert back to Vassalage.
1930AD: I convert Cyrus to vassalage in exchange for Plastics, bribe Stalin(and thus Elizabeth) into war with Mansa for Radio, bribe Caesar into war with Mansa for Robotics, and gift Zhou(size 18)(on coast, next to all that Sugar) to Mansa.

I hope that I recover my points with Cyrus, and am preparing for the possible need to war with Mansa for mutual war points with everyone(I can bribe Cyrus and Hannibal if needed once I declare).

That puts Mansa 5 votes ahead of Cyrus, and finally delivers the Diplo win to me in 1932AD. Cyrus, Stalin, Elizabeth, and Caesar all voted for me. I had 490 votes, only 60 of which came from me, now that I've given Mansa 4 large cities.

In Summary:
2 technologically advanced and trading civs will be far advanced over a continent with 5 civs of differing religions(I was behind Mansa when I found the other continent but was 3-4 techs ahead of everyone on the other continent)
It would have been better to switch my Palace to a different city and just gift Istanbul to Mansa, I would have won in the 1700s still.
Don't give in to demands from a worst enemy, it counts as a trade.
Someone better win a diplo pre-1680AD or I'm gonna be very ticked at myself.
My speed ranking is gonna suck for this game lol

Final thought: a cottage powered economy will be more powerful than a resource powered one in the late-game...At 1500AD, Mansa was still the #1 economy, but by 1650AD, Caesar, Hannibal, and me had all passed him in tech and left him behind.

Stats:
1400AD- 550 beaker/turn research
1600AD- 900 beaker/turn research
1750AD- 1500 beaker/turn research

 

[Thrallia]

It's just that the oil situation completely determined how my game went.. I can't really describe things properly without talking about oil.

I had my first-ever modern age war! (It was fun)

you can talk about it, you just can't mention where you found it.

On a related note...why can't we talk about where modern resources are? in order to read this thread everyone has to have submitted the game anyway, so how would that be a spoiler?

 

[ccccc]

2 technologically advanced and trading civs will be far advanced over a continent with 5 civs of differing religions(I was behind Mansa when I found the other continent but was 3-4 techs ahead of everyone on the other continent)

Same thing happened here --- except I didn't even trade with Mansa the whole game! I don't have any idea what was wrong with the other continent... they had ZERO wars with each other before I met them, but I was still ahead of them by about 3-4 in tech (although I was 7 or 8 behind Mansa).

why can't we talk about where modern resources are?

That's what I'm wondering. I'll just post what I have without that fun point though.

 

[Erkon]

@Erkon:
When did you start the war on Mansa, and what kind of resistence you have on the other continent?

Apart from the worker steal, I fought MM from 450 BC to 820 AD (war ended with the capture of Timbuktu), and from 1010 AD to 1030 AD (Mali eliminated).

I DoW on the other AI at these years:
1220 AD - Russia
1390 AD - Carthage
1505 AD - England
1530 AD - Persia
1550 AD - Rome

The victory was delayed several turns due to me DoW'ing too late. It took a lot of turns before the AI was willing to talk to me (which enabled capitulation). I probably lost about 10 turns due to that. Also, I bribed Cyrus and Julius into a war, and that war ended a few turns after I attacked Cyrus. That meant that he could not capitulate since he could not enter war with Rome. I did not predict that scenario. Another lessons learned

Units destroyed by me:

Spoiler :

[pre]
Turn Year Epoch Hammers TotalH Unitname
10 3640 BC 0 0 Lion
22 3160 BC 0 0 Lion
25 3040 BC 60 60 Worker
33 2720 BC 0 60 Panther
35 2640 BC 0 60 Wolf
42 2360 BC 0 60 Panther
60 1640 BC 15 75 Warrior
64 1480 BC 15 90 Warrior
72 1160 BC 15 105 Warrior
72 1160 BC 15 120 Warrior
79 925 BC 15 135 Warrior
90 650 BC 15 150 Warrior
91 625 BC 15 165 Warrior
93 575 BC 15 180 Warrior
98 450 BC 60 240 Worker
99 425 BC 35 275 Axeman
102 350 BC 25 300 Archer
124 200 AD 35 335 Spearman
127 275 AD 25 360 Archer
130 350 AD 25 385 Skirmisher
134 450 AD 50 435 Longbowman
134 450 AD 25 460 Skirmisher
134 450 AD 25 485 Skirmisher
134 450 AD 35 520 Axeman
134 450 AD 35 555 Spearman
134 450 AD 25 580 Chariot
138 540 AD 50 630 Longbowman
138 540 AD 50 680 Longbowman
140 580 AD 35 715 Spearman
141 600 AD 35 750 Axeman
143 640 AD 35 785 Axeman
145 680 AD 50 835 Longbowman
145 680 AD 25 860 Skirmisher
145 680 AD 25 885 Skirmisher
150 780 AD 50 935 Galley
150 780 AD 25 960 Skirmisher
150 780 AD 25 985 Skirmisher
150 780 AD 25 1010 Skirmisher
150 780 AD 50 1060 Longbowman
150 780 AD 35 1095 Axeman
152 820 AD 25 1120 Chariot
162 1010 AD 60 1180 Worker
163 1020 AD 50 1230 Longbowman
163 1020 AD 0 1230 William the Conqueror
163 1020 AD 50 1280 Longbowman
164 1030 AD 50 1330 Longbowman
164 1030 AD 50 1380 Longbowman
164 1030 AD 50 1430 Longbowman
171 1100 AD 15 1445 Warrior
177 1160 AD 50 1495 Galley
178 1170 AD 50 1545 Galley
179 1180 AD 50 1595 Galley
186 1250 AD 50 1645 Galley
186 1250 AD 60 1705 War Elephant
186 1250 AD 50 1755 Longbowman
186 1250 AD 50 1805 Longbowman
186 1250 AD 40 1845 Swordsman
186 1250 AD 40 1885 Swordsman
186 1250 AD 35 1920 Spearman
186 1250 AD 50 1970 Horse Archer
186 1250 AD 50 2020 Galley
188 1270 AD 50 2070 Galley
188 1270 AD 70 2140 Maceman
189 1280 AD 50 2190 Galley
191 1300 AD 40 2230 Swordsman
191 1300 AD 40 2270 Swordsman
191 1300 AD 50 2320 Horse Archer
191 1300 AD 35 2355 Axeman
191 1300 AD 50 2405 Longbowman
193 1320 AD 50 2455 Galley
194 1330 AD 50 2505 Longbowman
194 1330 AD 50 2555 Longbowman
194 1330 AD 70 2625 Maceman
194 1330 AD 50 2675 Galley
195 1340 AD 50 2725 Longbowman
195 1340 AD 50 2775 Galley
196 1350 AD 50 2825 Horse Archer
196 1350 AD 50 2875 Horse Archer
196 1350 AD 25 2900 Chariot
196 1350 AD 50 2950 Horse Archer
197 1360 AD 50 3000 Galley
199 1380 AD 50 3050 Galley
200 1390 AD 50 3100 Galley
203 1420 AD 50 3150 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 50 3200 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 50 3250 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 50 3300 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 50 3350 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 60 3410 Pikeman
203 1420 AD 40 3450 Catapult
203 1420 AD 90 3540 Knight
203 1420 AD 50 3590 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 60 3650 Pikeman
203 1420 AD 40 3690 Swordsman
205 1440 AD 50 3740 Longbowman
207 1460 AD 50 3790 Longbowman
207 1460 AD 50 3840 Longbowman
207 1460 AD 60 3900 Pikeman
207 1460 AD 60 3960 Trebuchet
207 1460 AD 90 4050 Knight
207 1460 AD 70 4120 Maceman
207 1460 AD 70 4190 Maceman
207 1460 AD 50 4240 Longbowman
207 1460 AD 60 4300 Crossbowman
208 1470 AD 50 4350 Longbowman
208 1470 AD 50 4400 Longbowman
212 1505 AD 60 4460 Worker
213 1510 AD 70 4530 Maceman
213 1510 AD 70 4600 Maceman
214 1515 AD 50 4650 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 50 4700 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 50 4750 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 60 4810 Pikeman
214 1515 AD 60 4870 Pikeman
214 1515 AD 35 4905 Axeman
214 1515 AD 50 4955 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 50 5005 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 40 5045 Swordsman
214 1515 AD 60 5105 Pikeman
214 1515 AD 70 5175 Maceman
214 1515 AD 50 5225 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 40 5265 Catapult
215 1520 AD 50 5315 Longbowman
215 1520 AD 50 5365 Longbowman
217 1530 AD 60 5425 Pikeman
217 1530 AD 60 5485 War Elephant
217 1530 AD 50 5535 Longbowman
218 1535 AD 60 5595 Crossbowman
218 1535 AD 60 5655 War Elephant
218 1535 AD 60 5715 Trebuchet
219 1540 AD 50 5765 Longbowman
219 1540 AD 60 5825 Pikeman
219 1540 AD 50 5875 Longbowman
219 1540 AD 50 5925 Longbowman
219 1540 AD 15 5940 Warrior
220 1545 AD 40 5980 Catapult
221 1550 AD 50 6030 Longbowman
221 1550 AD 90 6120 Knight
221 1550 AD 70 6190 Maceman
221 1550 AD 90 6280 Knight
221 1550 AD 60 6340 Pikeman
221 1550 AD 35 6375 Axeman
221 1550 AD 60 6435 Caravel
221 1550 AD 25 6460 Archer
222 1555 AD 50 6510 Longbowman
222 1555 AD 90 6600 Knight
223 1560 AD 50 6650 Longbowman
223 1560 AD 60 6710 Pikeman
223 1560 AD 50 6760 Longbowman
223 1560 AD 60 6820 Pikeman
223 1560 AD 50 6870 Longbowman
223 1560 AD 50 6920 Longbowman
223 1560 AD 60 6980 Pikeman
223 1560 AD 35 7015 Axeman
223 1560 AD 60 7075 Caravel
223 1560 AD 80 7155 Musketman
223 1560 AD 45 7200 Praetorian
223 1560 AD 60 7260 Pikeman
223 1560 AD 60 7320 Pikeman
223 1560 AD 60 7380 Trebuchet
223 1560 AD 70 7450 Maceman
224 1565 AD 60 7510 Pikeman
224 1565 AD 80 7590 Musketman
224 1565 AD 50 7640 Longbowman
224 1565 AD 80 7720 Galleon
224 1565 AD 60 7780 Pikeman
224 1565 AD 60 7840 Trebuchet
224 1565 AD 80 7920 Musketman
224 1565 AD 50 7970 Trireme
224 1565 AD 60 8030 Trebuchet
224 1565 AD 60 8090 Trebuchet
225 1570 AD 15 8105 Warrior
226 1575 AD 50 8155 Longbowman
226 1575 AD 60 8215 Crossbowman
227 1580 AD 50 8265 Longbowman
227 1580 AD 70 8335 Maceman
227 1580 AD 60 8395 War Elephant
227 1580 AD 60 8455 War Elephant
227 1580 AD 35 8490 Axeman
227 1580 AD 70 8560 Maceman
227 1580 AD 70 8630 Maceman
227 1580 AD 50 8680 Longbowman
227 1580 AD 50 8730 Longbowman
227 1580 AD 50 8780 Longbowman
227 1580 AD 60 8840 Crossbowman
227 1580 AD 45 8885 Praetorian
227 1580 AD 45 8930 Praetorian
227 1580 AD 60 8990 Pikeman
227 1580 AD 40 9030 Catapult
228 1585 AD 50 9080 Longbowman
228 1585 AD 60 9140 Crossbowman
228 1585 AD 45 9185 Praetorian
228 1585 AD 40 9225 Swordsman
228 1585 AD 60 9285 Crossbowman
228 1585 AD 35 9320 Axeman
229 1590 AD 70 9390 Maceman
229 1590 AD 45 9435 Praetorian
229 1590 AD 45 9480 Praetorian
229 1590 AD 60 9540 Pikeman
229 1590 AD 60 9600 Trebuchet
229 1590 AD 25 9625 Immortal
[/pre]

 

[ainwood]

It's just that the oil situation completely determined how my game went.. I can't really describe things properly without talking about oil.

I had my first-ever modern age war! (It was fun)

Talk about oil all you want - just don't make any reference to where you found it, or show any screenshots of its locations.

 

[AgedOne]

Where we left off in spoiler 1 (500AD – 700AD)

Spoiler :

In 500AD we were just building up our swordsmen army to deprive MM of some of his lovely lands. We knew he had hooked up his iron, but his forces still consisted mainly of skirmishers.

Well, we had an annoying bit of news while in mid build-up. He had promoted several skirmishers to longbows. Darn! Tougher. Need more military.

Just to depress us further, we heard that the Gt Lib had been build in a far off land in 580.

No matter! DOW’ed in 700AD!

The first bash at MM (700 – 1050)

Spoiler :

The war started with another unpleasant shock. The borders of Djenne (MM’s iron city) just expanded – pinging my HorseArchers, who were ready to jump in and cut his iron, away. They tried to jump over to the iron mine anyway, but had to stop en-route and were killed!

The war went quickly to plan – at the start. Splatted a tiny city he’d planted in our part of the continent. Too small to survive. Then Gao, a major city by all the sugar, fell quickly to our swords. We kept that, of course.

There was a massive battle for Djenne, but it was in our hands by 980 – 14 turns into the conflict.

At this point I kind of lost my mind. The next city on from Djenne was Walata, on the N coast, on a hill, guarded by 2 promoted longbows. A red mist descended and I threw unit after unit at the stubborn defenders, finally taking the city in 1050 – at the loss of virtually my whole attack force! Waah! What was I thinking of? I didn’t even want the damn city. It was just there in the way, and I had to keep smacking the defenders until they died!!

The red mist cleared and I saw what I had done.

I had to patch things up with MM. He was evidently scared by my berserk forces, and agreed to give me some tech for peace.

Gearing up (1050 – 1210)

Spoiler :

There was nothing else for it but to rebuild the military, so I settled down to a quiet spell of civilized improvement.
It also gave me a chance to think where I was heading. I was going to need Optics, and to increase my tech rate so that I wouldn’t be horrendously backward when I met the other continent inhabitants.

Our spies were also busy in MM’s land. He’d agreed to OB again, so my HorseArchers were snooping around checking his military strength – and seeing whether he’d hooked up his copper yet.

The second bash at MM (1210 – 1300)

Spoiler :

Our aim was still to push MM away from the good lands and leave him as a puny, worthless neighbour, living in the unwelcoming corners of our continent.

In 1210 I figured we had a big enough military, and it was time to play round 2! This time, we had catapults, too.

Destroyed Tekedda, which he’d sneaked into our lands, right off.

Then we went straight for his capital – Timbuktu – ignoring all other distractions this time.
Bombard – collateral damage – push! Over it went in 1300.

This was what we came for. We had Timbuktu, the centre of 2 religions. His remaining cities looked to be in the poorer areas. So we made peace again, and he handed over the customary tech.

Becoming a better nation (1300 – 1490)

Spoiler :

Having achieved what we wanted to militarily, it was time to get back on the research and civilization improvement trail.
Switched to Hinduism, since we had the shrine.
Set about ensuring we had plenty of libraries, set scientists up in a few key cities. Watched the GPP begin to rise.

We learned Optics in 1420.

However, before we could even get our first caravel out of port, we were contacted by someone from the other continent!

Meeting the World / Trading tech (1490 – 1690)

Spoiler :

It was Stalin who first came sailing by. The meeting opened our eyes as to our true position in the world – which was poor. He was 300+ points ahead on the score, and had a string of tech that we didn’t.

Within 10 turns we had met another 4 civilizations – Hannibal, Cyrus and Elizabeth. With the exception of Liz, they were all doing equally well.

This was just what I had been afraid of. We were the poor cousins on meeting the new world.

At least we had our own caravels out and about exploring. I hoped for a circumnavigation bonus, but when within sight of achieving it, Cyrus beat us to it in 1570.

Things started to look up. First we met Julius Caesar, who wasn’t so advanced as some of the others. Then we learned Astronomy, and found that we could trade it with him. In return, he filled us in on 5 techs!
Liz, also, was happy to trade Astronomy for 3 of her own techs.

We were catching up.

When Hannibal gave us another 3 tech – and his world map – I didn’t feel so bad.

I set my civics up: Representation – Bureaucracy – CasteSystem – Decentralisation – Theocracy.
Our research approached gunpowder.

A slight worry was the military. Our exploring caravels could see that JC already had riflemen. It was evident that our Janissaries (when we had them) were not going to be making much impact on the world stage!

MM gets annoying again (1690 – 1780)

Spoiler :

Back home, I was becoming increasingly annoyed at how MM was managing to wriggle free of his tundra prison that I had left him in.
Not only wriggle free, but exert unpleasant cultural pressure on our cities. Timbuktu, that you might have though could stand up for itself culturally, was having its borders compressed to the extent that it lost access to all of its gold!

Then he planted a city by the marble, just as I was planning the same. That’s a slap in the face if ever I saw one!

I began to think I had to do something to him he would remember for a long time.
Then I noticed he’d got grenadiers. I hadn’t. I had Janissaries. They weren’t going to beat them, were they?

Not everything was looking rosy for MM though. I noticed Hannibal had plopped a small city down on our E coast, including a rifleman. I wasn’t too worried. Hanni was a friend, and the AI are crap at launching naval invasions anyway. But Hanni declared on MM, didn’t he?! And dropped off a small contingent including grenadiers beside MM’s new marble city!

I watched with a smile as Hanni splatted the marble city – and I nipped in with a settler to replace it.

The final war with MM (1780 – 1834)

Spoiler :

We were looking much better now in the world rankings. Just 50 points off the lead. Basically caught up in tech. We were just starting to build cavalry.

I’d had enough of it! “Dad. Mansa’s being annoying again! He won’t keep his culture over on his side!”.

A couple of turns before I was quite ready to jump in there and sort it out, Hanni invited me in. “I’m having a lovely time fighting this guy, but I’m doing it with only 4 units. How’d you fancy joining in?”, he asked politely. How could I refuse?

It took a few turns, and I was worried that some of my older units would be splattered by his grens if they got the chance (I was still using some swords and maces!), but it went alright.

Wadan was ours in 1806 and Tadmekka in 1812. That really relieved all the cultural border problems.

In 1830 we took their latest capital – Kumbi Saleh – and hit the top of the scoreboard in doing so!

By 1834, MM was down to a single, awful tundra city, and my forces (and Hanni’s) were outside the door. I decided to leave him alive at this point, and asked him for Capitulation, and all his money.
We had ourselves a vassal.

Preparing for a Space Race (1834 – 1926)

Spoiler :

Sitting back and looking at the world, I decided there was no chance I could get any kind of military victory. However, I did have a good shot at a Space victory. Considering how backward we were when we first met the rest of the world, we’d done a fair job in catching up – and even passing – the other civs on tech.

The latest round of trading had been based on our invention of SteamPower. Hanni, Liz and Cyrus all traded us good tech for it.

Committing ourselves to a Space Race (or a UN if all else fails) we rolled up our sleeves and prepared. Set our civics to Representation – Bureaucracy – Emancipation – Free Market – Pacifism.
Made sure we had plenty of specialists working our cities.
Set the tech path for Rocketry.
Took off the handbrake.

We started getting factories in all of the best production cities, and then coal plants.

Learned Rocketry in 1870, and started the Apollo Program in Istanbul in 1876 (as soon as it had its coal plant).
I was hoping that we could pop a Gt Eng when Apollo was half complete, but it didn’t quite work out like that. On the good side, we learned Industrialism in 1896, revealing Aluminium – Under a mine that we already had !! Whoo! This brought the build time for Apollo right down.
On the bad side, the next GP to pop out was not the predicted Gt Eng, but a useless Gt Prophet.
Just to remind us that this was a race, and not a walk in the park, Cyrus completed his Apollo just 7 turns ahead of ours!

In 1926, our Apollo Program completed.

Apollo and the Space Race proper (1926 – 1981)

Spoiler :

I wasn’t overly worried by Cyrus beating us to Apollo. I was fairly sure we had a better building potential than he did, and I was absolutely certain we were ahead of him on tech and weren’t about to be overhauled by him.

Through the twentieth century we continued to tech fast. Computers, Satellites, Combustion, Plastics, Robotics, Refrigeration, Genetics, FibreOptics, Fusion – all these came between 1922 and 1960. We were averaging about 4 years per tech.

The biggest and best bit of good news was when we discovered Fusion first, and the Gt Engineer we got through that completed the Space Elevator for us! 1960. Surely there would be no catching us now!

Stalin had joined the Apollo club by this stage, but wasn’t going to impress anyone.

I was still rather wary that somebody would start a huge war just near the finish. At least nobody had built the Manhattan Project, or the UN, yet. Those were complications I could do without.

So we all watched intently as the final pieces were added to the ship.




A couple of strange happenings. Gt Prophet Zoroaster appeared – and helped us out with Future Tech! We completed the Globe Theatre to celebrate the building of our SpaceShip!

Victory! (1981)

Spoiler :

Our Space Ship launched in 1981!!



Space Victory!

Base Score 4551.
Final Score 9244.

OK, the score’s not that great. I enjoyed the win.
(Can’t recall getting a space race win before. Not much of a video, is it?)

 

[Thrallia]

its more of a video than the diplo win video is

Congrats on the win! It wouldn't have made a difference if you'd popped that GE with the Apollo Program being built...the Apollo Program is a project, and can't be rushed by anything.

 

[AgedOne]

its more of a video than the diplo win video is

Congrats on the win! It wouldn't have made a difference if you'd popped that GE with the Apollo Program being built...the Apollo Program is a project, and can't be rushed by anything.

Ohh Yes. How dim of me. Probably just as well that didn't happen, then. Would have given me an excess of frustration just as things were going well.

 

[ccccc]

The slow, painful and technically diplomatic victory of our great nation.

We left you in the "first spoiler" thread with two cities in 500 AD. Mansa had already researched Philosophy at that point, and things were looking grim. But hey, we had the Pyramids+Great Wall, so we were alive at least! And, we had placed our second city very far south to keep Mansa walled-in. And no open borders or tech trades, ever! So, how did it go?

The Summary:

• 500-1500 - The first Skirmish with Mansa
  Behind enormously in technology, our first war with Mansa Musa pits our longbowmen and catapults against his riflemen. We lose, but luckily we started the war so he is unprepared with non-upgraded defensive units. We end the war by giving back his cities, and realizing we need a better strategy.
• 1500-1842 - The road to the United Nations
  Meeting everyone else, we get them all to love us since they hate Mansa so much (and we had never traded with Mansa). Beeline for the United Nations, at which point Mansa figures out that we have a chance at winning. Mansa's infantry invade us while we defend with cavalry/riflemen... and our UN vote fails when a giant Western War starts simultaneously, making everyone hate us for trading with their new worst enemies. Diplomatic Victory will have to wait until we deal with Mansa.
• 1842-1946 - The Great Eastern War
  Tech trades start to bring us up to (military) tech parity with Mansa, and our cavalry/riflemen hold off their infantry for a long time while we maintain naval superiority. Our Assembly Line research turns the land war into a stalemate, and our control of all the Eastern oil means that Combustion gives us complete control of the seas. Eventually, Mansa is defeated by Destroyer+Cannon raiding parties, and finished off with tanks in 1946.
• 1946-2048 - We Must Insist: You Will Stay On This Planet
  By 1946 three Western nations had built Apollo programs, and there was no way we were going to make it into space. We did have a nice modern army, though, so we decided to try to win a Time victory by stopping everyone else from making it to space. The Western continent was Caesar/2 vassals/defense pact with Cyrus, and Stalin was alone -- we bribed Stalin into declaring war on a vassal, which broke the defense pact. Then we used our fighters/tanks/marines against Cyrus, who was now alone. Continuing our pro-Stalin and anti-everyone else policy, we razed enough cities to prevent anyone from going to space. In the end, our Modern Armor/Stealth Bombers were enough to eliminate the whole Caesar block, which gave us enough population for the Diplo win in 2048 (when Stalin voted for us!).

The Detailed History of our great Nation follows!

Spoiler 500-1500 - The first Skirmish with Mansa :

We refused to trade with Mansa at all the entire game, because we wanted to keep "our half" of the continent Mansa-free. The second city had been founded way, way south to choke off Mansa and keep him small, and so there was none of this newfangled "open borders" stuff. When we finally piled up some catapults and longbowmen to escort them (in 1390 AD), we figured, hey, let's see how a war goes... we know he has gunpowder and liberalism, but the city in view only has two longbowmen defending it.

By 1510 AD, our catapults are long dead, and our new "Janissaries" have all been slaughtered by rifleman. We return Mansa's previously "poorly defended" city in exchange for peace, and re-fortify our front city with lots and lots of longbowmen -- as though that will help against the enemy rifles.

Spoiler 1510-1842 - The road to the United Nations :

In this time period, we finally started to meet the other civilizations -- and everyone hated Mansa Musa a LOT. When they met us, the worst enemy of Mansa, they all fell in love with us -- especially when we played some tech trading with them. We looked around that continent and also noticed that none of them hated each other -- they just hated Mansa! We beelined for Mass Media and built the UN in 1832.

As it turned out, there had been zero wars on the Western continent until 1810 -- when a skirmish broke out that was quickly ended by our great nation's negotiating powers (gave them tech to make peace). We needed everyone to love each other and us!

Just before the first vote, though, it all came crashing down. On the same turn, the combined Julius Caesar/Hannibal block declared war on Elizabeth... and Mansa invaded our great nation, showing off his stylish new infantry. Everyone suddenly had a nice -4, since no one hated Mansa so much anymore and we were trading with everyone's worst enemies. The United Nations plan seemed to be doomed to failure, and now we needed to survive Mansa's attack --- we only had grenadiers and cavalry!

Spoiler 1842-1946 - The Great Eastern War :

Stalin joined the war against Elizabeth in 1846, and Elizabeth was doomed. Our technology lead over the West had evaporated, so we couldn't stop the war from happening and Diplomatic victory was a far-off dream now. Elizabeth capitulated to the JC/Hannibal block in 1862, and that now-enormous block signed a defensive pact with Cyrus in 1898.

All this time saw great naval and land battles in the Great Eastern War (which took place almost entirely on our soil), including the births two Great Ottoman Generals. The demon infantry were slowly whittled down by collateral damage, cavalry upgraded with retreat bonuses, and as many rifleman as we could muster. When we learned A-line, the war turned stalemate. But when we learned combustion, well, it was all over for Mansa.

Destroyers do very well against Ironclads, so keeping Mansa's oil disconnected meant complete naval superiority -- and we landed our troops at will throughout his empire, terrorizing his people. He eventually retreated from our lands, when we had a decision -- continue the war, or make peace? Cyrus completed the Apollo Program in 1914.

We decided to rush for Industrialism, and by the time we had tanks, our amphibious landings had completely annhilated Mansa's military. Timbuktu was razed in 1930 by ambhibious cannon assault, and Mansa was removed from the continent in 1946!

Spoiler 1946-2048 - We Must Insist: You Will Stay On This Planet :

With Mansa eliminated, we had achieved something we never thought possible -- only 400 years ago, our longbowmen were confusedly staring across the battlefield at rifles, and now the whole continent was ours! Now, we just needed to win. There was no way we could make it to space before the time ended, so we decided to make sure no one else did. With enough wars and city-razing, we should be able to take everyone else down and win a Time victory! Onward!

As soon as the war with Mansa ended, we bribed Stalin into declaring war on the enormous Caesar/Hannibal/Elizabeth block which was Defense-pacted with Cyrus. I have no idea why he accepted this deal, but maybe he thought he was only going to war with Elizabeth? Anyway, declaring war on Elizabeth meant that Caesar declared war on Stalin, breaking the Cyrus defense pact. Outstanding! We then brought over our tranports-with-tanks and our carriers-with-fighters and prepared for war with Cyrus. We were in no condition to help Stalin with the suicidal war he had just created, and we gladly took the -2 "you refused to help us during war-time!"

War with Cyrus started in 1964, with our Fighters, Tanks, and Marines against Cyrus' Marines, Artillery, and Infantry. We couldn't land any troops without them getting completely destroyed, so we played completely from the sea, razing four coastal size 20+ cities and ending the war in 1974. In that same year, Stalin capitulated to Julius Caesar, giving the big JC three vassals!! It was pretty clear who the next war would be against... especially when the big JC finished Space Elevator and SS Cockpit on the same turn in 1999!

Rome was razed in 2000, and a few more Roman size 20+ cities were wiped off the map shortly thereafter. Strangely, we noticed at this point that Stalin had broken free from JC in 1994, so we brought him into the war too. JC proceeded to capture both Moscow and St. Petersburg, but his population still dropped far enough for Hannibal to break free (the same year he builds his own SS Cockpit). The wars ended in 2009 for our air force to take a little break.

But Stalin was still stuck in the war with Hannibal! It was going poorly for him, so we agreed to take him on as a Vassal in 2011 and join the war against independent Hannibal, who only needed 3 more spaceship parts to win. By this time, Modern Armor were landing on the shores, and our bombers based in Russia were helping out our fighters based at sea. Carthage was eliminated in 2030.

Cyrus and Caesar both now needed only two more spaceship parts -- but neither had researched Ecology! Caesar researched Medicine, so we decided to finish him off as a precaution, invading in 2042 with Modern Armor supported by Stealth Bombers. Elizabeth was eliminated in 2044, and Caesar's Space Elevator city was captured, eliminating him in 2047.

Surprise! At this point we were happy with our Time victory, but Stalin gave us a surprise "thumbs up" in 2048 giving us the extremely late Diplomatic victory for an abysmal 5000-ish score. Cyrus never researched Ecology, but judging by the power graph, the war of the 1960s had made him a changed man -- by the end of the game, he matched us in power! He wasn't so focused on technology anymore, and just stockpiled Mechanized Infantry to defend himself.

My Mistakes:
Forgot about raging barbs early
Expanded too slowly
Thought of going diplo too late
Did not realize the implications of the oil layout early enough

My Successes:
Not trading with Mansa allowed me to win late wars with him as I slowly expanded
My 2nd city site gave me a LOT of culture right on his border, making wars easier
Realizing the importance of naval superiority early enough
Finishing off Mansa despite taking over 100 years
Breaking the JC/Cyrus defense pact using weird vassal mechanics
Air Superiority ++
Keeping one friend to let me base my bombers

Interesting Graph:
The GNP graph is sort of fun to look at, since the Golden Age of the Economy in this game was around 1940, and after that the general world economy was in decline for the next 100 years. Exactly as our great nation planned! Notice Cyrus's GNP, which drops down to below zero by the end even though he only needed two spaceship parts to win. I guess he really needed all that military? That sort of confuses me.

Spoiler GNP Graph :

What a game! I had actually never fought a war in Civ4 that involved air units...
I got quite a crash course in it for this game, eliminating four civilizations in wars that involved aircraft carriers!


Edit: this was hilarious, sir: "I’m having a lovely time fighting this guy, but I’m doing it with only 4 units. How’d you fancy joining in?”
I must have gotten an extremely lucky break, with the Western continent behind behind me in tech when I met them despite me never trading with anyone, while you found a bunch of riflemen in the West. Or maybe my representation/pyramids economy was actually good? How was everyone else doing compared to the West?

 

[Harbourboy]

Bah. Why do I have to be the only one that Mansa managed to beat?

 

[Vynd]

My plan was to dominate the starting continent, get Caravels and then Galleons as fast as practical, and then invade the other continent. I figured on sticking to the bottom half of the tech tree as much as possible and beating on people with Knights and Janissaries if possible, with the option to move up to Cavalry and Grenadiers if necessary.

In other words, a pretty plain vanilla sort of game. And as I’m far from the best warmonger around my results were pretty plain as well. So I’ll keep this (relatively) short.

Home Sweet Home

Spoiler :

I explored a little while my initial Settler and decided to establish Istanbul a bit west of our starting spot to share the flood plains with a later city. I ignored the Fish early and concentrated on Mining, Bronze Working, and Animal Husbandry instead. I wanted to explore rapidly so I went Warrior then Worker. I figured out early on that Mansa and I were alone on the continent and that I had Horses and Stone available.

My second city went North, in position to work Stone, Horses, and some of the north river flood plains. It was an excellent production city throughout the game. I built a third city to work the starting area flood plains I’d moved away from and some plains hills. No resources there at all, but a good production city nonetheless.

I decided to build the Great Wall to keep the barbarians off my back while I geared up to invade Mansa. And I went for the Pyramids as well so I could run a nice SE to keep my research strong even with no tech trading. I would successfully complete both. Naturally this delayed my offensive but I figured I’d need Catapults to take down his Skirmishers anyway.

Destroying My Friendly, Inoffensive, Neighbor

Spoiler :

In 150 BC I declared on Mansa. My early-built Warriors and Cahriots pillaged his Copper and Iron but were quickly destroyed, shifting the action back to the North where my Catapults began to slowly fight their way through the string of cities Mansa had just extended to my borders. I trashed some cities, but kept those that were well sited. I’d researched Horseback Riding and as my Catapults made their way south they were joined by a trickle of Stable + Barracks promoted Horse Archers, plus some road-building Workers.

It was very slow going. Especially when Mansa started fielding Longbowmen. And I started getting downright worried when I saw a Maceman or two. But I just kept piling on the Cats and Hose Archers and finally managed to take down Timbuktu in 1090 AD. I made peace not much later. I fought two small wars later to finish Mansa off, mostly because that let me extort some tech from him first.

A Foothold in the New World

Spoiler :

Thanks in part to techs lightbulbed with Great Engineers I developed Optics in 1290 AD. It didn’t take me too long after that to discover and map the other continent. I was pretty much on par in tech with everyone there except Hannibal, even though my SE hadn’t really been going all that long (I’d been running Police State for most of my war).

I stuck to my plan, developed Astronomy in 1490 AD, and promptly began preparing to invade the other continent. Elizabeth was in the process of losing a war to Hannibal, so she was the perfect target for my beachhead. I upgraded some Horse Archers to Knights and set sail with them and some Trebs. London and a second English city fell easily in the early 1600s, followed shortly thereafter by her Capitulation.

Grinding My Way To Victory

Spoiler :

From England’s territory I was situated to either attack Hannibal or Stalin. I decided to go after Hannibal, who was the strongest remaining AI and who I’d need to get through to reach anyone other than Stalin. By the time my English War was over I was able to upgrade my Knights to Cavalry and I had a chain of Galleons linking me to the home continent. It took a few turns to ship over enough Cavalry and Janissaries to mount an attack, but when I started I was hoping for a walkover. But of course as soon as I entered his territory Hannibal started upgrading his Longbows to Riflemen. So I was forced to brute force my way much like I did against Mansa and it wasn’t until 1740 AD that he agreed to become my Vassal.

My army had been depleted fighting Hannibal so I once again had to stock up before declaring on Caesar, this time with some Grenadiers added in and my siege units upgrade to Cannons. Naturally this gave him enough time to get Riflemen too. That war went well enough that I felt able to declare on Cyrus and attack with the units shipping over from my continent. I knew for a fact that Cyrus couldn’t have Riflemen yet, and I was right. But I hadn’t noticed he had Cavalry. So that war bogged down almost as soon as it started. But eventually Caesar capitulated, my cities on the main continent finally filled in the last few available land tiles, and I picked off a few peripheral Persian cities. It was enough to give me Domination in 1822 AD, with a score of: 5046/44179.

My Vassal Has a Death Wish?

Spoiler :

One oddity is that on the second-to-last turn Elizabeth broke her vassalization with me. I didn’t even know that was possible for someone who had capitulated in a war. Not to mention the fact that she only had two very small cities and one of them had gone into revolt due to cultural pressure from Russia. Needless to say she would have been crushed flat if the game hadn’t ended almost immediately.