WOTM 08 Final Spoiler

ccccc, I think you will definitely win a prize for weirdest game in WOTM8. I've never heard of anyone playing a game out remotely like yours, with all the amphibious attacks and razing of huge, developed cities. It's a pity you didn't end the game with a rare time victory to cap off the bizareness. :crazyeye:

Kudos to you for finding strategies that allowed you to capitalize on your strengths and come from behind.
 
if a vassal loses half its land or reaches half your population after becoming a vassal, it breaks free automatically. Most likely the revolt from Russia is what caused it.
 
We left off in 500 AD (first post in the first spoiler tread) by having build a :science: monster in the capital, and considering a push for a (reasonably) early space launch. I had started spawning cities on the north half of the continent (including taking sugar-city from the barbs), and was still trading with a friendly MM.

In 620 AD, I popped a GP, and used him to found the Kong Miao. This helped my economy further, as I was spreading Confu actively both to my cities, and also to MM. In 720 AD, I revolted to serfdom since I decided that it was time to grow all cities to their pop limit, so I would not be whipping for a while, and because I wanted my army of workers to clear the jungle and get the lands cottaged asap. I adopted Mercantilism at the same time, since it was the best available economy civic, and I could do it in the same turn of anarchy.

I set of researching railroads to get the extra production from lumbermills and mines, and with that in hand, began researching my way to Liberalism (through education obviously) with the simple plan of getting 6 libraries up ASAP (I believe I had 7 or 8 cities at this stage), and building oxford in my science monster capital. Things were mostly uneventful during this time, except for a barb boat showing up and pillaging my two fishing nets. I quickly produced a ship to dispatch of it, and had to rebuilt two workboats, which was a mild setback, but not crucial since my capital was busy working cottages in any event.

After I got close to liberalism, I decided to check on MM, and saw that he still did not have education, so I had a few turns to spare at least (While I had not met the other continent yet, I decided that there was absolutely no why they where anywhere close to the teching that MM and I had been putting up, so that the race to liberalism was purely between the two of us.) Now, at noble level, I often like to wait on liberalism and try to take physics with it, and use the GS for a lightbulb (usually bio), but needless to say, that was NOT happening with MM around, so I had to decide what I could reasonably get. Since I was now focusing on launching off to space, nationalism did not really appeal, so I decided that Economy and the free GM were the best bet. I therefore started teching all the prerequisites for Econ, while keeping an eagle eye on MM to make sure that he does not get Liberalism before me.

In 1100, with all the prelims in place, Liberalism came in, and I took Economy with it. Having gotten the free great person, I decided that it now made sense to immediately trade econ to MM, and I got Compass, Construction, Drama, 170 gc, and an updated WM in return. I did not revolt to anything new at this time since Beurocracy was still better then the 2g town bonus, and with only one religion in each city, free religion was not better than OR (especially with all those libraries and universities to be build).

A couple of turns later, I decided that MM could also have Liberalism, and for that, I received Optics, Theo. Horseback and 50 gc, so as you can see, MM was nicely helping my backfilling of techs.

In my own research, I was heading for Democracy for the bonus production to all my towns. I got that in 1360, and revolted. At this time, I trade Constitution for Gunpowder, music, and 180 gc, and democracy for chemistry, divine rights, and 30 gc.

I decided that it was finally time to pick up Astronomy. I had not really avoided it thus far, but simply it had never been a top priority (I was confident that there was no trading to be done with the other continent since they surely had not been able to match the pace that MM and I were setting. During this time, I also began work on the Tahja Hall for the golden age. Honestly, I was not really expecting to get it given my late start, but I had nothing pressing to build, so I decided to give it a shot.

I was pleasantly surprised when I got it in 1410, the same year I finished Astronomy. I also met Liz and Cyrus that year (they visited with boats), and a couple of years later met Stalin (also his visit). In 1490, I started getting unhappiness penalties from people demanding freedom, and since my workers had finished the majority of their improvements, I revolted to Emancipation. That turn, I also traded Astro to MM for corporation and a few coins. I then researched steal, which I traded for Sci. Method, and proceeded to rocketry, which I learned in 1670 and started on the Apollo program. By this time, I had already finished oxford and the statue of liberty as well.

So, my empire for the space race was essentially set: In 1675m I had 10 cities, producing a total of 990 beakers per turn, 500 of which were coming from my capital. Of these cities, two were turning into very good producers (see pictures below). My capitol, which was currently building the Apollo project, and Edirne, which was at present producing the Iron works. In addition, I had 4 cities which had 25-35 hammer potential.

The plan for the spaceship was simple. Tech towards Aluminum first and hope we have some or can acquire some, tech to the space elevator, tech to all the parts, and build them! The space elevator and all the big parts would be assembled in Edirne and Istanbul. The second tier cities would build the castings and thrusters.

With this plan in place, I continued my persistent teching towards the ship. Not much eventful happened. I was able to trade for combustion, but had to research all other remaining techs myself. I did sell off dozens of techs to the other continent, basically given them one anytime they had 100 gc or so to offer. They were hopelessly behind, and this trickle of gold allowed me to keep my research at 100% almost the entire time.

I saved a few great people during this time, including one GE. I finished Apollo in 1770, and commenced work on the space elevator in 1836. I invested the GE into that, which greatly sped it up, and the same turn, triggered a golden age. Beyond that, just routine research and routine production. My last two parts where, as one might expect, were the engine (being built in Edirne) and the stasis chamber (in Istanbul). I timed these finish one turn apart (tried for the same turn, but missed), and finished each of them by using my army of workers to chop all the remaining forests in each city radius (knocking about 4 years of the completion date). This allowed me to launch for the stars while still in the 19th century (barely). The ship took of in 1898. I don’t remember the score.
 
dang...that's early. Care to let us mortals in on how you did it? :)

First of all, I must say I'm here not for competiton, but for education and fun:) . Because I usally play w/o barbarians, and actually played 1st time with barbs. So they ruined my 2nd city:blush: And this game was with 1 reload, which is not acceptable.

In this game I tried to repeat Obormot's strategy in SGOTM-2. As my level of playing is far away from great Obormot's one, I think he would finish much ealier (eg 1000AD-1100AD or so)

So I made theese steps:
1. Making new cities as quickly as possible, to cover all bonus resources
2. Then I killed Musa with Swords&Cats (actually It took me very long time, I took Timbuktu in 500AD or so)
3. Parallel 2 GS were born in my land. 1st went to optics, 2nd went to 2/3 of astronomy (I misscalculated, cas I wanted 3 or 4, and even swithched to CasteSystems for while)
4.I finished Astronomy, whiped some Galeons and began invasion on the 2nd continent.In 1010AD I declared war on Elizabeth. I've finished in 1400AD having 6 Vassal states (I am a humanist :))

The most difficult AI was Stalin, he had large stacks of cats, horsearcher, etc.

Some stats:
When I finished I have built 13 Galeons
3 Generals were born, first two I used for exp, last was unused.
Maceman: built: 44, lost: 19
Catapult: built: 71, lost: 39
Swordsman: built: 19, lost:5
Janissary: built:4, lost:0
Grenadier: built:0, lost:0
6 cities founded & 6 razed
about 10 hours of playing

I want to post here my replay but don't know how :(
Could u plz help, with getting out actual date i'v learnt astronomy, cas I don't remember now

EDIT: I renamed .civwarlodsreplay in .civ4replay and it worked!
 
Hey, I finally completed one on time. :D

I never planned a victory condition. But given my play style I expected to win by space race, which is what happened. The outline below is a broad overview of what took place before "launching" my spaceship in 2001. I engaged in only one planned war, against Mansa Musa, in order to check his growth, as well as to grab the sugar along our shared border.

Mansa had been leading the points race, and he enjoyed a tech lead early on. However, I was eventually able to rest the tech lead from my rivals and rise to the top in points before final victory. Mansa and Stalin declared war on me, in that order. Against Mansa, I razed a city he had to my north and captured another two cities. I fought a defensive war against Stalin, taking out any units he landed. I happened to have a defensive pact w/ Cyrus when Stalin declared war, so I was able to get some gold & gpt from him rather quickly - compared to other wars. Cyrus did raze one of his cities on the other continent.

As for the "restless (?) barbarians," they never presented a problem because I had fog-busted my vicinity well.

4000 BC - Settled on starting tile; researching Fishing;

600 AD - Discovered Christianity (GP gifted Theology);

960 AD - Declare war on Mansa Musa (aim: territorial gain); captured Khoisan;

1000 AD - Captured Niani;

1040 AD - Clicked the wrong damn option and gave Mansa peace straight up! :(

1510 AD - Circumnavigated globe! :)

1775 AD - Mansa Musa declared war on me;

1780 AD - Used Great General to build Military Academy in Istanbul;

1785 AD - Razed (auto) Awlil;

1812 AD - Captured Djenne;

1840 AD - After razing 1 Malinese city and capturing two others, I signed a peace treaty w/ Mansa Musa for gold & gpt:

1912 AD - By trading Radio around for several good techs, my score jumps into first place - over Julius Caesar;

1916 AD - Signed Defensive Pact w/ Cyrus;

1922 AD - Convert to Universal Suffrage and Emancipation;

1928 AD - Built Apollo Program in Istanbul;

1933 AD - Stalin declared war on me;

1948 AD - Stalin gives 9gpt + gold for peace treaty;

1979 AD - Edirne b. Space Elevator (rushed w/ Great Engineer);

You've got to love that Space Elevator. It did help win sooner rather than later, but it probably wasn't necessary. My nearest competitor for space was Hannibal, and I had a lead on him by 3-4 parts.

All in all, I enjoyed the play - mostly builder w/ some warring. Of course, that won't win me any medals, but.... . Of course, the game didn't think much of my leadership - ranking on par w/ Herbert Hoover. :(

mini_map_wotm08_final.jpg


graph.jpg


victory_wotm08.jpg
 
Spoiler :
Ensuing was the most frustrating diplo game I've ever had. Everyone refused to forget I had given in to his demands...Lizzy became a peaceful vassal to Stalin, and over the course of the next 100 years, I slowly increased my civics bonuses with Hannibal, Caesar and Cyrus...I finally got them all up to voting range again(Hannibal was at +8 and I needed him at +9, Cyrus was +9, Caesar was +8)...and the worst thing that could happen happens...Cyrus discovered Biology and surpasses Mansa in size, making him my opponent rather than Mansa being my opponent. I then almost LOST a diplo victory when Stalin(#3 in pop now) voted for Cyrus and all I had voting for me was Elizabeth(last in pop).

I gifted Biology to Lizzy and she traded it away to both Stalin and Mansa(yay!), and I hoped for my trade modifier to go away and for Mansa to pass Cyrus again...I spent the next 70 years doing that. It never happened. It is now 1890AD, I've almost finished the Apollo Program and only have 3 techs left to research before I'm done with all the spaceship techs.

I take note that Mansa is 25 votes behind Cyrus...so I gift Mansa 3 cities: 1892AD- gift Bursa(size 9)(next to the marble), Konya(size 9)(next to North wine), and Jute(size 13)(on top of north iron)

I then proceed to go blind and not see this message:
"Cyrus switches from Vassalage to Bureaucracy"

That removed my +4 for civics, but I didn't see that message...so when the next vote came, Mansa was largest by 3 votes...but I didn't win because I didn't get Cyrus' votes like I should have...that's when I realized what happened. Of course, the next vote, Cyrus has overtaken Mansa again...and I'm having to watch Mansa farm over the towns I built in those cities :(

I try switching to Bureaucracy to match Cyrus again, and also switch from Free Market to State Property to get civics points with Stalin. It doesn't work, I gain points with Stalin, lose points with Hannibal, and don't get anything with Cyrus.

In 1925AD, I finish the Apollo Program and all research is done for its parts...so if the next two votes don't work, I decide I'll just go for a mediocre to bad space race victory.

1929AD: I convert back to Vassalage.
1930AD: I convert Cyrus to vassalage in exchange for Plastics, bribe Stalin(and thus Elizabeth) into war with Mansa for Radio, bribe Caesar into war with Mansa for Robotics, and gift Zhou(size 18)(on coast, next to all that Sugar) to Mansa.

I hope that I recover my points with Cyrus, and am preparing for the possible need to war with Mansa for mutual war points with everyone(I can bribe Cyrus and Hannibal if needed once I declare).

That puts Mansa 5 votes ahead of Cyrus, and finally delivers the Diplo win to me in 1932AD. Cyrus, Stalin, Elizabeth, and Caesar all voted for me. I had 490 votes, only 60 of which came from me, now that I've given Mansa 4 large cities.

Thrallia, that was an interesting read for me. Well done! Although it was frustrating for you, the thought process and steps you took for victory are beyond me - during game-play. I guess I'm too lazy, because I "should" be bright enough. ;)

Good job!
 
Ainwood, any chance you could post a save of this map allowing us to play as MM?

I'm just wondering what I would be able to do with that starting position.
 
after the scores are announced they'll post the worldbuilder save for the game on the GOTM website. If you download and play that save(I believe it is accessible via the scenarios section, but could be wrong) you can play as any of the civs in the game.
 
I finally decided to give up somewhere during the 20th century. As a last attempt for victory I built the UN but failed to get the necessary votes in my one and only chance.

I made the mistake of not declaring the war on Mansa early enough. At the time I did (around 800 AD) he was already too far ahead. I conquered one city from him, and struggled centuries to keep it until he finally accepted peace. Later I stole another city from him.

Much later (around 1800 AD) Stalin DOWed on me. I instantly bought Caesar for an ally. That war was still raging (on the other continent, Stalin sent 4 units to me) when I gave up. Everybody hated MM in my game so just before I finished UN I bought Hannibal and his vasal Lizzy to attack MM. Despite of giving gifts to Cyrus he was never willing to attack MM, his worst enemy. I joined the war couple of turns later.

I was hoping that mutual struggle would buy me the votes. Everybody except Stalin voted me in the first vote but in the victory vote only Caesar voted me while everyone else abstained. My DoW on MM had left me badly crippled so I had to buy peace again.

My military is pathetic, I'm behind in tech and I have no chance to get others to vote me without gang banging MM. Unfortunately I'm alone on my continent with MM and I can no longer sustain a war with him. With my skills I'm doomed. Better luck next month :)
 
I really wish we could talk about the location of the oil, because it really completely determined my strategy from the moment I saw it. I'm also curious if it was placed that way on purpose! Poor Mansa.

:D My "diplomatic" victory was hardly diplomatic, since I massacred tens of millions of people with amphibious assaults. This was certainly the weirdest game I've ever played! I'm glad you enjoyed reading.
 
The plan for this game was definited with the Mehmed's traits. Organised and expansive means ideal conditions for domination. Besides the Continents map with high water level makes this task easier. So I'm beginning:
Early ages and war with Mansa
Spoiler :

4000 BC: Istanbul was settled in place.
3160 BC: Met Mansa Musa. We know the first victim. My intelligence reported (two scouts have explored the continent): we are the lonely neighbours.
3040 BC: Mansa is a buddhist.
2800 BC: learned Bronze Working. Ouch! No copper near my cities, and Mansa has aready connected to it.
1280 BC: Iron working. No problem with iron. Next step: beeline to construction. We need catapults, many catapults.
300 BC: Construction.
325 AD: Everything is ready for a war. Declared on Mansa, stole two workers.
350 AD: Captured Gao (Mansa Musa)
640 AD: Captured Djenne (Mansa Musa)
820 AD: Captured Niani (Mansa Musa). Mansa has longbows, so we need more catapults to make the way for our swordsmen.
1010 AD: Captured Timbuktu (Mansa Musa).
1140 AD: Captured Awdaghost (Mansa Musa).

Malinese Empire has been eliminated. Result: we are solely masters of the continent, have two holy cities: Buddhism an Christianity.

For the next wars I spread Buddism as a state religion to use it with Theocracy.
Beelining to Optics. I have to research without tech trade, nobody met yet.
Spoiler :

1140 AD: Calendar
1190 AD: Compass
1230 AD: Optics
1240 AD: Began to build 4 caravels at once.
1270 AD: 1st caravel.
1360 AD: Contact to Juli. Not I but he found me.
1390 AD: Contact to Hannibal. Carthagian caravel near my shores.
1400 AD: I found Russians. Hello, Stalin! Nice to meet you (and thought: you are the next one).
1430 AD:
Researched Astronomy. Building Galleons. It's long way to Russia.:lol:
Contact to Cyrus.
1450 AD: Met Lizzy (or Betty, as you want). So, all the rivals are known.

The nearest plans were to declare war on Stalin an his vassal Lizzy. Stalin was the strongest at that time (I mean the 2nd after me) and I didn't want to see his cossacs before they appear. Lizzy has also quite a good UU. And the UUs of the other rivals are obsoleted. So they will stay for dessert.
War with Stalin
Spoiler :

1515 AD: War began
It was not so easy to put down roots on the Russian territory. 5 Galleons full of Ottoman Grenadiers, Trebushets and Knights worked hard shuttling between continents and providing reinforcements.
1560 AD: Steel researched. We can build cannons.
1605 AD: Captured Rostov (Stalin)
1700 AD: Captured Moscow (Stalin)
1715 AD: Lizzy broke free from Stalin
1725 AD: I vassalized Stalin with two cities, Hannibal vassalized lizzy.

War with Carthago
Spoiler :

1725 AD: May be Lizzy told smth bad about me to Hannibal but he decred war and Lizzy naturally also.
1750 AD: I gifted Military tradition to Stalin and his cossacs worked very good for me. He captured himself one Hannibal's city on the southern cape of the continent. Lizzy is not a problem more (R.I.P)
1775 AD: Ivan the Terrible (Great General) born in Istanbul!:lol: Not in Moscow
1804 AD:After capturing Carthage Hannibal capitulated with three cities. And I need 6,5% land area more. Who's next?

I had too choose between Juli and Cyrus-Virus. Juli had approx 50% of my military power but was scientifically ahead of all and was about to gain access to infantry and I am not yet. Cyrus had the same tech level as I but the military power the same also. I chose Cyrus.
The last war: World war
Spoiler :

1818 AD: In a distance of one tech from Infantry I declared on Cyrus. But damned Julius declared also on me. So every civilization was in state of war.
1824 AD: I was too busy with Cyrus and his mass cavalry. So many cavalry I've never seen before. I lost Carthage to Romans.
Hannibal suffered from both Juli and Cyrus but made a good resistance. I gifted him rifling. May be it helped me.
1842 AD: Assembly line learned. Immediately gifted to Hannibal. After this year our business came up.
1862 AD: I had the cherished 64% of land area and Cyrus had only three cities and lost almost all his army. Peace treaties were signed with Juli and Cyrus and...
1864 AD: Domination

What have I learned in this game:
1. The Pyramids are very essential for domination game to have early Police State, 'cause war wearinness makes life terrible.
2. Never forget about researching.
 
This time, I didnt do so well.......:sad:

In this game, I made 2 fatal mistakes, which I wish I could have given a second chance to correct them.

Mistake#1 Ignoring Raging Barbarian

I really had a tough time with barbarians. Masonry was not my priorty and i didnt bother with much military tech. My first settler was kill my a barbarian (the warrior guarding was killed in a jungle by a barbarian warrior)

Also, by the time I was trying to build great wall, I see enemy axeman before I link up my resource. I had to keep sacrifing pop in my capital to prevent defeat. Barbarians keep coming to my capital like once in 5 turns. Overall, the barbarians gave me too much trouble in this game.

Mistake #2 Did not develop a strong economy

Well, thanks to the barbarian axemans and archers (I only had archers), my economy never really developed until later. My neighbor Mana Musa riped profit while I suffer. By the time I can handle the barbarians, Mana Musa was like 10 tech ahead of me. :mad:


Eventually, the difference reduce to 8, but I know there is no way I can win. :cry:
 
O right. I forgot to mention i retire in 1535, where I just finish gunpowder, while Mana Musa has tech beyond rifling. I shouldnt have underestimate this game because this is noble difficulty. Hard lesson learned.
 
Eventually, the difference reduce to 8, but I know there is no way I can win. :cry:
Look carefully at the modern resources on your map and how they are laid out -- your situation sounds a lot like mine, and I was able to beat Mansa in a (protracted) modern war (I guess I wasn't 8 techs behind, but I was definitely behind).
ccccc said:
500-1500 - The first Skirmish with Mansa
Behind enormously in technology, our first war with Mansa Musa pits our longbowmen and catapults against his riflemen. We lose.
 
Played without much of a plan, late at night, very tired and unfocussed. And since this was Noble it was going to be easy anyway...

By the time I actually took a look at what was going on in the world I realised Mr. Musa had run away in tech and I needed to kill him ASAP.

So I bashed my feeble units into his brick wall for a few hundred years until I gave up. Not going to submit this one either... :(

I tried it again and played it to the point I knew I was going to win. I needed to do this, otherwise my self-esteem would have sunk to a new record low.
 
Interesting write-ups so far. A couple of pretty good conquest/dom times, but based on how fast some people teched in the write-ups in the other thread, i wouldn't be surprised to see some even earlier dates.

I think I may have really been an idiot because I didn't use GPs to pop techs. I got astro a little before 1000. I'm pretty sure I had a GS just sitting there. Sheesh. I continued on to get gun-chem-steel. I was amazed how fast a fleet of cannons takes down pretty much anything.

I also messed up my end game - I was planning to milk for a couple of turns at the end - but when I killed folks so fast with cannons, I went right past the dom limit without even popping my settlers at the end.

End result: Dom, 1655, 96K
 
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