WOTM 09 First Spoiler

Gyathaar

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WOTM 09 First Spoiler



Reading Requirements:
  1. You must have reached at least 0 AD.
  2. You must know the general location of all other civs on the home continent.

Posting Restrictions
  1. You must not discuss any events post 500 AD.
  2. You must not post any screenshots or details about "the new world", should you somehow be able to reach it already.
 
First ever game of the month for me. First time playing epic speed, first time with raging barbarians on. I also hadn't played a Terra map since my first ever game with vanilla.

I normally play Prince level but only have 1 win under my belt so far (space race win in 1978 I think). I ummed an ahhed about wimping out and taking the easy save especially after reading last months WOTM reports, but I thought the raging barbarians will probably sink that anyway. So I went for contender.

I settled 1 south of the starting location and sent my first warrior west.
Worried about raging barbarians, so start building another warrior. Set research to Fishing but then immediately changed my mind and went AH for the sheep and horse reveal. 3rd turn contact with Peter. He has a scout checking out to the west too. Discover there's not much land to the west but more sheep.

Border pops same time as completing my warrior. I build another (still worried about those barbs). I send him southeast, there's a nice canal/chokepoint spot with stone there, not good for food until I can get some irrigation going.

Animal Husbandry is researched, yippee horses all to ourselves to the west, with sheep. I start Fishing tech. The capital has a fair amount of production potential so I don't need chopping or whipping just yet, growth seems more important. I meet Qin to the southeast. His capital is over the sea though.

3340 BC: Buddhism founded.
3280 BC: Spotted by Americans.
3250 BC: First barb action. A lion attacks my warrior to the southeast and is defeated.

Fishing is researched in 3220 BC and I go for mining, hills near the capital. I meet Shaka.

Worker finishes in 3010BC, heads for the sheep. I start on a barracks. Did I mention I was worried about raging barbs?
Mining leads naturally to Bronze Working. Thebes grows to size 2 and I switch to building a settler. Gotta get the horses ASAP.

My exploring warrior to the southeast kills more animals. My warrior to the west is guarding the horse site and fogbusting in case barb warriors start appearing.

2560 BC: Exploring warrior gets a goody hut for XP. More animals are slaughtered. The warrior gets Woodsman II for fast forest movement. He is getting attacked by lots of animals but keeps winning, I stick to forested hills if possible.

2380 BC: Finish Bronze working. Woohoo! There is copper near the canal/chokepoint site SE of the capital. 3rd city will go there I think, 2nd city will get the horses. I start on Mysticism for Obelisks and think about going for the Oracle, industrious after all. The settler finishes building, back to building a barracks. Slavery is adopted.

2260BC: Memphis is founded 1N of the horses. My worker is on the case. Memphis starts building a workboat to get the clams for Thebes.

2200 BC: Meet Saladin with my exploring animal killer. He strokes his beard a few times.

2110 BC: Mystism is finished as is the pasture for the horses. Start on polytheism.

2050 BC: Barb warrior attacks my SE warrior. I win. Worry about raging barbs a bit more. More XP for the warrior and he gets combat 1. I'm exploring the southern part of the continent by now, and heading west following the foresty bits.

1930 BC: Both builds complete on the same turn, barracks and workboat. Thebes starts on a War Chariot since the horses are hooked up by now. Memphis starts on a barracks too, I want to produce chariots from both cities.

1780 BC: I found Hinduism in Memphis and start Priesthood. I want the Oracle now so I can get a Great Prophet. I meet Elizabeth to the southwest of the continent.

1720 BC: First bad boy War Chariot is built in Thebes, Combat 1. I whip another one. I start to build another. Memphis gets a border pop from religion. They are both heading for Moscow. I think an early war is in order...

1660 BC: Peter, congrats. You are the first victim. I declare war and move next to Moscow, he has an archer on the way out of his city.

More to follow...
 
After having played a few test games I decided to settle 1S building a warrior first. I wasn´t so much afraid of the raging barbs when I realized that it´s a small peninsula easy to fogbust on where we start. So tech path until 1AD was the following:
Spoiler :

Fishing 3700BC
Mining 3370BC
Bronze Working 2830BC
Animal Husbandry 2470BC
Writing 2020BC
Mystic 1810BC
Meditation 1570BC
Priesthood 1390BC
Pottery 1180BC
Metall Casting 940BC (by Oracle)
Alphabet ?
Literature?
Currency 25BC

Furthermore I got IronWorking, Masonry, Archery, Hunting, Sailing, Polytheism and Monotheism by trade

Ususally I go for alphabet earlier but this time I thought that there won´t be anybody to trade with due to the fact that it´s "Prince". And I think it was a good decision I made.

First builds in the capital:
Spoiler :

warrior 3730BC
warrior (just one turn because I had to wait for Fishing)
workboat 3340BC
workboat 3130BC
worker 2770BC
settler 2410BC
worker 2170BC
barracks 1690BC
war chariot 1510BC
war chariot 1360BC


My capital grew to size 2 in 3460BC. I let the city grow while building the workboat. Sometimes I work the hill/plains/forrest first to have the working boat out as early as possible but after some pre-calculation I thought it would be better to let the city grow. The goal is the first settler to come out. 2410BC isn´t so good but I already had two working boats working.

The second city I founded 1N of the horses. Then I wanted some war chariots to attack Peter as soon as possible. I am always afraid of having too much costs due to lots of cities.

First war:
Spoiler :

I declared war on Peter in 1150BC. He had only two unexperienced archers in Moscow and one archer and one warrior more in St. Petersburg . He was finished of in 970BC.


I saw early that Peter isn´t the big manace so I built some wonders instead of units too:

Spoiler :

Thebes: Oracle 940BC (to get the free tech)
Thebes: Pyramids 295BC (to run Represantation)
Memphis: Great Lighthouse 100BC(I really wanted the money from trade routs)
Thebes: Temple of Artemis 55BC (did I say that I am afraid of a low income?!)


And by the year 1 AD we had the following:
Spoiler :

units: 7workers, 1archer, 11 war chariots, 4 warriors, 1 galley,
at 60% income rate and an income of already -10 we had:
hammers: 62
beakers: 77
gold: 64

we had five cities at sizes: 7,6,6,6,4 ( and I am proud on that)

we already had 1 GE and 1 Warlord

We were leading in points (544) and the following scores:
military: 132.000 (1.)
land: 68.000 (3.)
population: 730.000 (1.)


In 25BC I declared war on Huang .... and I am hoping his cities won´t crush my tensed financial situation
 
Terra map with an early UU just screams conquest to me.

I settled 1S on the plains hill. I started a Warrior (raging barbs) and researched Fishing to get the seafood on line. I went Warrior -> Fishing Boat -> Warrior -> Fishing Boat. With Thebes now at size 3, I could quickly go Worker -> Worker -> Settler -> Settler. The first Settler went 1N of the Horses, and the second one right on top of the Copper. I thought that would give me an extra hammer, but apparently not. :( It didn't matter though, because it was the best place for the city.

My research went Fishing -> AH -> Mining -> BW -> Mysticism -> Masonry -> Polytheism. Even with all of that first, I only missed Hinduism by 4 turns! So I continued on to Monotheism and founded Judaism in 1240 BC. Weird non-religious game.

Meanwhile, with Peter so close, I knew he was my first victim. I parked a Warrior outside of Moscow and waited. I declared on Russia in 2230 BC to steal his Worker. My 3 Workers quickly hooked up all of the resources and chopped an army. My first 2 cities built military and the Stone city started the Pyramids. Moscow fell in 850 BC and St. Pete right after that in 700 BC. Buh-bye, Peter!

My army swung east next to deal with Qin. I razed his first city because I wanted my own by the Gems and the Cows. I razed all of his cities except Beijing because of maintenance. He had 1 holdout city that I couldn't find so I made peace with him so I could attack Washington.

So by 500 AD I have Peter destroyed, Qin down to 1 city and I've started to fight Washington. War Chariots are so good, especially since it seems like nobody else has any metals. I've only fought Archers so far.
 
I thought I was going to be the only person to post! Anyway, here's how the war against Russia went... I forgot about using spoilers so here goes...

Spoiler :

Peter sent 2 archers out of Moscow I think. I kill one on the DOW turn and wait for my reinforcement to arrive. My reinforcement gets himself killed attacking the other one, I finish him off with my injured veteran unit. Move towards the capital I think he only has one archer left there, but my Chariot is injured so I just park it and wait for reinforcements to arrive. When I research Priesthood (1540 BC) I go for Pottery next for enhanced whipping of chariots with granaries. Memphis completes its barracks the same turn, I start the Oracle with a view to chopping or whipping it.

1390 BC: Hinduism spreads to Thebes. I whip a chariot to celebrate.

1330 BC: Enough reinforcements have arrived to attack Moscow. He has 2 archers now. I lose a chariot but I have 2 more and capture the city. I set it to build an Obelisk when it will come out of rebellion. Peter has founded another city to the South of Moscow.

1300 BC: Pottery. Go for Writing next. Moscow looks like it will make a good GP farm so am looking to the Great Library there.

When Moscow finished its Obelisk I started on a Warrior to defend it. Thebes is pumping out Chariots as fast as I can handle. When the Warrior is finished I go for a granary.

1030BC: Writing. Masonry next, I want The Great Wall to get rid of the barb threat.

1000 BC: Attack St. Petersburg. An archer and 2 warriors are the only defenders. I lose a chariot but my 2 others kill the warriors, leaving just an injured archer left who is finished off on the next turn. Peter is eliminated! I decide to keep St. Petersburg, fairly good production but hardly any food. I finish The Oracle in 985BC as well, take Metal Casting.

Qin has built a city fairly near Moscow now. I decide he is the next target since he is Protective, better to finish him off early. He is on a weird narrow peninsula, I thought he was on an island at first.
 
Preparing for war with China:

Spoiler :

Thebes is starting to have happiness problems so I set the build to a Hindu temple. Then I change my mind, I can always adopt Hinduism for the +1 happy, it's not like I am planning on having any friends early (although Peter was Pleased with me before I declared war!). I go for a forge instead, 150 GP points are required for a GP I realised, so I could get one going and run an engineer in Thebes which would beat the Great Prophet from Memphis, and I would like The Pyramids to run representation or Police State when WW will get to be a problem later on. My capital hasn't got much defence and I want my troops to go to the front line ASAP so I don't fancy building units just to sit in the capital to make the people happy.

970 BC: A chariot kills a barb warrior that was near St. Petersburg, giving it Combat I to go with flanking.

955 BC: Thebes about to become unhappy so I switch to Hinduism as state religion.

940 BC: Worker near Memphis pastures up the sheep resource there so I can grow Memphis quicker.

925 BC: Whip the forge in Thebes, start on a Settler for the copper/stone site. Masonry researched. Start on Alphabet so I can extort techs or do a bit of trading just before I declare war. It's going to take 46 turns though.

910 BC: Declare war on Qin. Shanghai was built east of Moscow off his narrow peninsula. That's the first target, it is lightly defended. He has another city at the bend of the peninsula, and his capital I think.

895 BC: Start building the Great Wall in Thebes, delaying the Settler. More Great Engineer points I figure and I still have forests to chop and mines to build near Thebes. And my sities aren't well defended I'm relying on people being pleased with me until I attack them at this stage, and culture from my Obelisks or religion to fogbust near Thebes and Memphis.



War with China (part I):

Spoiler :


Shanghai has an archer and 2 warriors defending too. I lose one of my 3 chariots but capture the city in 865 BC.

Realise I have elephants which add 1 happiness in a jungle tile near my Russian cities, and you don't need to clear jungle to build a camp. So I switch to hunting research.

835 BC: Hunting researches, go back to Alphabet. My workers freebies from Peter start farming around Moscow.

760 BC: Attack Guangzhou. 2 archers are defending. It falls in 730 BC. The Great Wall is completed in Thebes. This game is going really well! Best start ever on Prince.

730 BC: Hinduism spreads to Washington. Moscow has a granary by now and I want to run it as a scientist farm so I start a library. Start mining around Thebes now that I chopped the forests for the Great Wall.

610 BC: Settler from Thebes who will settle the copper and stone site, at the canal point. Thebes and Memphis pump out chariots from now on, although I got another work boat out of Memphis to make Thebes grow more quickly after the whipping and chopping of the Great Wall.
 
I played a test game to get a feel for the settings.
My plan for this game was to go for a Dominaton win. I thought it would be interesting from the raging barb standpoint. A well built barb civ to capture in the new world, while capturing most of the old world at home. The challenge would come from maintaining a giant civilization through Astronomy to get to the new world. The alternative option was to tech towards Astronomy while maintaining a moderate size civ and sweep through all the rivals in a blitz for land at the end.
The Start
Since there was no way to "see" anything else on the first turn, I decided to settle in place and make Thebes into a strong production center and the backbone of my civ. My exploring warrior started S then went NW to reveal the edge of the continent. Thebes started building a worker and research was set to Fishing so Thebes could grow quickly. The first border pop revealed the Stone and brought all of the stone wonders into play for me. I am not a huge wonder fan unless I have the resources to cut the build times to resonable numbers. But this meant that Stonehenge for border pops in an expanding empire and The Pyramids for the happy and science bonus from running Representation were very doable without sacrificing to many turns of troop or other production. After exploring the western tip, this warrior headed generally in a southern direction, eventually circling counter-clockwise on the southern tundra before heading west towards England's lands.
The Players
Spoiler :
I saw the first barb lion on T16, first barb Warrior T72
I met Peter on T19, Elizabeth T34, Saladin T40, Washington T48, Qin T68, Shaka T117 (I went all the way around him from the W to the S then E, and met him on the way back).

The Research
Spoiler :
Fishing>Mining>BW>AH>Myst>Pottery>Masonry>Writing>Math>Sailing>MC(switched to Hunting somewhere in the middle), finish MC>Construction>Currency>Code of Laws>

The Cities
Thebes founded in place T1, build order
Spoiler :
Worker, Workboat @ T9, finish Worker, Warrior, Settler(chop 1 forrest), WB, Worker, Warrior, Granary(pop rushed for 2 pop), WB, Library(pop rushed 2 pop), Barracks, WB, Axeman, Settler, Pyramids started on T128(chop 3 forests) and finished on T138. I went for a late run at The Great Wall here but lost it on T143 to Shaka. Then production switched to almost straight military in this city, Axes and War Chariots, and Cats when available.

Memphis founded on T63 on top of the Copper and starts production on Stonehenge immediately, finishing on T96 after 1 forest chop from outside the fat cross)!!! Border pops and Priests for everyone.
Spoiler :
SH was followed by Granary> Barracks> and then Axe's until the horses were on line, and then it became the Mounted unit center, later adding a Stable.

Heliopolis founded on T129 2N of the Horses and starts on a Granary as this city only has the 1 good food source and can't afford to waste any bread.

I tend to build Granaries early in all my cities and use the whip pretty regularly.

Trade routes open in the South
Spoiler :
Washington is the first to discover Alphabet around T150, and I am able to trade Math to him for Iron Working and Archery

The Semi-Early Wars
The first target is
Spoiler :
Peter of course! Unlucky enough to be my closest neighbor, and stuck in the jungle as well.
We declare on T163, capture a worker, and move 6 Axes on Moscow which only has 3 Archers defending, with only 1 CG1 promotion. After the first 5 Axes lose without doing any significant damage, the final Axe withdraws to a forest and waits for the Cats to arrive. Moscow is captured on T192 after Cats arrive on the scene. Then the attack stack is turned to the E, there is one city on the Chinese border Yaroslavl, that is captured on T195.

That takes us to the 500AD mark, the approximate scores at the time were(scores from a 380AD save):
Shaka - 486, founded Jewish
Washington - 475, founded Hindu
Saladin - 437, Buddist
Ramesses II - 399, no state Religion
Elizabeth - 387, founded Buddist
Qin Shi Huang - 356, Jewish
Peter - 332, Hindu
 
Something went wrong with my computer the other day and trashed my WOTM9 saves. Which is a pity, since it was an unusual setup and I was having a fun, if unspectacular, game.

Anyway, as I explored the starting continent I came across the following evidence that the barbarians were, in fact, raging...


WOTM9_London.JPG


Note that not only did the English lose their capital, but the holy city of Buddhism as well.
 
Hmm I'll continue my tale tomorrow I think but looking at the posts so far I was doing amazingly well by 500AD, not bad for my first prince/raging barbs game.

Spoiler :

Russia, China, America eliminated and midway through burning England by 500 AD.

Got the Oracle in the horse city, Great Wall in the capital, rushed Pyramids in 1 turn there too (from forge GE).
 
Early Years
Spoiler :
After some pondering I decided to settle one square S on the plains hill. Warrior started to explore towards SE but after I met Russian scouts in 3910 BC I decided to turn around and explore the W first. I must admit that at that stage the lay of the land didn't look like anything I had expected from a Terra map. So after seeing the dead end in the W my warrior made another full turn and returned to E.

While the Warrior prowled the land the smarter folks in Thebes researched Fishing and trained another Warrior for violent affairs. Second Warrior was built for one turn before Fishing was finished in 3830 BC and the work was started on a Workboat. Next tech researched was Mining which was learned in 3400 BC. At that time I also made a decicion that Russia must die.

First Workboat finished in 3310 BC and it was immediately followed by another that was ready in 3010 BC. Techwise the next goal was Bronze Working and it was learned in 2860 BC. A contact was made with Americans in 3070 BC and with Chinese in 2860 BC. In 2830 BC I adopted Slavery and continued the research with Animal Husbandry that was done in 2500 BC. Mysticism was learned next in 2260 BC.

Worker was ready in 2830 BC and it was followed by a few turns of building Barracks while waiting Thebes to grow to size 3. After the growth work was started on a Settler that was finished in 2380 BC. In 2440 BC I contacted the Zulus. Memphis was founded in 2290 BC on top of the Copper in E. I'm not sure if it was smart to build the copper city before horses but I wanted to prevent Peter from getting that copper. By accident Memphis begins to build a Warrior but fortunately on the next turn they realize their mistake and change to Axeman. Though only after few turns I decide to change the build once more, this time to Obelisk :lol: Thebes finishes the partially built Barracks in 2050 BC and starts to build Axeman.


Not So Early Years
Spoiler :
Polytheism is learned in 1870 BC and Hinduism is founded in Memphis. Thebes continues making more Axes and after a couple of rounds of being dumb I finally notice that Memphis no longer is in dire need of an Obelisk so they shift their production once again, this time to Worker. Between Axes Thebes also builds a Workboat for Memphis. In 1660 BC we learn Priesthood and Hinduism spreads to Thebes.

Work on The Oracle begins in 1510 in Thebes. Pottery is learned 1420 BC. Memphis finishes the Worker in 1270 BC. Masonry is learned in 1210 BC and The Oracle finishes on the same turn - I choose Metal Casting as a free tech. I get into builder frenzy and Thebes begins The Pyramids next. In 1000 BC Hinduism spread to Moscow and in the next turn Peter converts - that's not gonna save the bugger though.

Sailing is finished in 940 BC and Writing in 775 BC. In 745 BC Thebes is done with The Pyramids. Maybe that's enough of the wonders for now? Both cities focus to military production but after Barracks and few Axes I build Granaries to both. Arabians make themselves known in 595 BC. At last in 550 BC Thebes begins a work on a Settler that's going to claim the horses - not exactly a chariot rush :rolleyes:

Iron Working is learned in 475 BC and Heliopolis is founded N of the horses in 385 BC. Great Prophet is born in 355 BC and he builds Kashi Vishwanath to Memphis. After a Lighthouse in Memphis and Library in Thebes both of the older cities start spamming War Chariots with an Axe or two in the mix. Alphabet is learned in 100 BC. And speaking of the wonders I decided that Thebes will surely need one more so Colossus was begun in 40 BC. Then it was time for war...


Russia be Gone!
Spoiler :
In 25 BC I declare on Peter. Without Catapults heavy casualties were certainty. Capturing Moscow costed 3 Axemen and 2 War Chariots. I naturally kept the city as it looked like a perfect GP farm. Colossus was finished in 35 AD and Thebes returned to building an army. Mathematics was traded in 125 AD. I had already started researching for Compass in 85 BC but changed my research to Construction in 185 AD. St. Petersburg is captured in 275 AD at a cost of 3 War Chariots.

Novgorod is next and it falls into my hands in 320 AD. This far I've kept all three Russian cities as my economy seemed to withstand them quite well. Construction is learned in 365 AD, after that I finished Compass in 395 AD and traded Monarchy. War with the Russians was practically over at this point but there was still some small cities to be razed: Rostov burned in 380 AD and Yaroslavl' in 455 AD. Russia was no more!


What Future Brings?
Spoiler :
Most of my cities spent the last turns of this spoiler period in building infrastructure. I also traded Calendar. At 500 AD I'm just a couple of turns from learning Currency and on next turn I'm going to have a Great Person in Thebes.

If I recall correctly I'm quite clearly number one in points and my empire looks to be in good form. China is getting too close (physically) so I'm planning to wage another war before I concentrate on exploration. I'm trying to keep good relations to Washington and Saladin for now as I don't want either of them to attack me during the future war with China. I don't necessary plan to erase China completely but I want push its borders further from my commerce cities.

For the first time the game looks like I could actually have decent chance on winning. I just hope I don't screw up during the modern era :lol:
 
Looks like I am the only one so far to settle horse city and ignore copper until after wiping out the ruskies. I figured the only thing I had to fear were spearmen, war chariots are strength 5 anyway, get +100% against axemen, and have a better chance of not being killed against archers than attacking with axemen since axes only get a bonus vs. melee, and chariots can withdraw. Plus they have 2movement. Who needs copper? I planned to take out as many capitals as possible before I saw a spear. Obviously Shaka was a low priority for the chop!

EDIT: looks like I was the only one so far to ignore fishing for AH first, I figured sheep on a hill would be good enough and starting with the wheel made it a doubly important tech.
 
Looks like I am the only one so far to settle horse city and ignore copper until after wiping out the ruskies.

looks like I was the only one so far to ignore fishing for AH first, I figured sheep on a hill would be good enough and starting with the wheel made it a doubly important tech.

I guess the main reason why my choices were so different is that I don't feel very confident in my skill on early blitz warfare. During my war with Russia I did think that maybe I should have settled the horses first after all - it might have made it possible to finish that war easily in the BC years instead of just before 500 AD it was finished now. And I guess there lives a small builder inside my heart, and builder needs copper and stone :blush:
 
it seems this game is very easy for everybody. Same here, I crush Peter and vassalize Qin prior 500 AD. Note I was also quite lucky, because the goodyhut on one of the island i popped gave me mathematics :lol:

Comparing raging barbarian this prince game and wotm 8, this one is easier, because the raging barbarians go for the ai and not the player this one (you dont have the fog of war, except rarely a barbarian galley shows up). With all those food and hills, a conquest win is inevitable if you try. (At game end, I have 6000+ gold left, perhaps an overkill)
 
I've only beaten Prince once and only had the game a couple of months though!

Playing the G-Minor this month though on Noble level aiming for a domination win certainly got me into an early rush strategy (Monty on an Oasis map).
 
With all those food and hills, a conquest win is inevitable if you try.

I still haven't finished but I think I'll agree with you. Prince (usually playing Noble), raging barbs and a map type I've never played before made me too cautious in the beginning and I'm drawn into long and slow game because of that ;)
 
This is (hopefully) going to be my first victory on Prince -- I am doing better than prior attempts on Prince. I am not first in score, but I am also not doing too terribly.

Anyway, I too settled in place. I currently only have 3 cities, which is a bit on the low side for me, but I am about to settle on an island as well. I am also preparing for a war with Peter the Great, but I am not ready to start it yet. (I am at 5 AD, but have met the conditions in the thread, where I have met & see borders for everyone).

I took the approach of getting a religion and taking advantage of my Unique Building, which was not exactly the easiest to do since it basically requires founding a religion and rushing toward a Great Prophet (with the help of the early specialists you can build).

I quickly grew my capitol to size 6, which is the current maximum it can comfortably support -- both the health and the happiness limits are at 6 right now.

The very odd thing, though, is that I have yet to encounter a non-animal barbarian! I thought they were raging? It may have something to do with the 2nd city that I placed right next to the desert in order to take advantage of the Stone (and, as I found out later, the Copper!!!) and the choke point to ensure Peter didn't encroach on what was rightfully my territory, along with the fact that Washington had a unit on the western peninsula of the main island that was trapped between moving back & forth between a few spaces, and thus acting as my "sentry" for me! (We didn't have open borders at the time, and my 2nd city trapped him in!) That took away all shadow land spaces, and I have yet to see barbs in ships! That said, I am sure the New World, wherever it may be, is likely to be teeming with barbs by this point!

EDIT -- Actually, one other very large contributing factor is likely the fact that Peter built the Great Wall, which tends to isolate barbs away from me as well. Sweet!!! Y'know, if there were a way to stay friendly with him, I would... but he is just in too inconvenient a position for me to allow him to live.

Anyway, at this point I have the Buddhist religion hoisted on all but 2 other civs. Peter the Great is the current leader, but I am militarily (slightly) stronger, and building up my strength to go to war with him. It helps to be able to peek at his capitol since he decided to go with Buddhism! That choice is a bit odd, since he actually founded Hinduism, but I guess he realized the rest of the world is Buddhist, so for relations' sake it made the most sense.

I also have a Buddhist shrine, which allows me to run at 100% Research, with (I believe) +2 GPT still. Not bad! This helps negate the drawback of currently only having 3 cities.

We'll see how I do; I'd put my odds of winning at ~50% right now. Better than any other Prince game I've played. I do have regular saves along the way too; if I fail in my attempt, I may ask for advice later; for now, though, I want to give it a go on my own :)

I did make an early mistake of building the Obilisk in my 2nd city so I could get the borders expanded to include fish. I forgot that, since Buddhism spread there immediately, that would already produce 1 culture point! (My capitol was the city that was responsible for generating the Great Prophet, and built Stonehenge at a later date when it had grown to size 6, and, with the stone connected, it was actually about the same cost to build Stonehenge as to build an Obilisk! If I recall correctly, one of them took 6 turns and the other 8.)

Wonders seem to all be up for grabs. It is 5 AD and Pyramids have not yet been built!!! I am a few turns away. Great Wall and Oracle got built right away, but I am benefiting in an indirect manner from Peter's great wall, and I am neck-and-neck with the other civs on tech.

I am finding religions are not as useless as they are made out to be. Sure, you won't win a game with religions alone, but I did my missionary duty once to the other side of the old world, and now my religion is paying off handsomely, relations are (mostly) good on that account, and I can see my arch-rival's capitol city!!!!

Sam

OOPS! Thanks Mod!!! Sorry for the mispost -- yes, it belongs here. Great WOTM!!

Moderator Action: Moved the post from WOTM8 spoiler to this one.. since it sounds like it was the wrong game - Gyathaar
 
Carrying on my report...

War with China (part II)

Spoiler :

610 BC: Moscow finishes it's library. I want to run scientists here. I also put a few cottages near Moscow since my economy is starting to bomb. Farms everywhere else near Moscow is the plan though, make it a Great Scientist factory. I start another worker near Moscow because there will be jungles to clear and camps to build for the elephants.

595 BC: Heliopolis founded at the canal choke point near the copper and the stone. I think I already had stone at this point though, can't remember, I think one of my captured cities may have been built on stone. Immediately starts building an Obelisk.

550 BC: Use my workboat to build fishing boats near Thebes, I have both seafdood resources available now. Still no lighthouse in Thebes, I just build war chariots there at the moment.

475 BC: I have a couple of war chariots hanging around 2 spaces away from Qin's last city, his capital Beijing (which is at the south end of his narrow peninsula), healing and waiting for reinforcements. Qin sends out 2 archers and a settler, I attack and defeat them with my injured chariots. Then withdraw again and wait for reinforcements. Jeanne D'Arc (the Great General with the Great Moustache) is born in Thebes.

640 BC: I decide Moscow needs to get involved in the war effort and start a barracks there after the worker is built. Hasn't got much production though.
I run 2 scientist there anyway and don't cxare how undefended it is at the moment, I have the Great Wall, and everyone is fairly friendly (except Qin of course, he's not so happy)


460 BC: I build a mine on the copper near Heliopolis. I still haven't seen any spears, Qin has no metal anyway.

445 BC: Hinduism spreads to Moscow. Extra +1 happy means I can grow another pop in the GS farm.

325 BC: Henry Ford is born in Thebes thanks to the Forge and engineer. He says "You can have the Pyramids in any colour you want, as long as they are black".

310 BC: Thebes completes The Ford Pyramids.

295 BC: I have enough chariots to attack Beijing now. I adopt representation for extra happiness and research from specialists. Beijing has 4 or 5 archers, and he is protective. I suicide 3 chariots which had flanking promotions, none of them withdraw. Then I kill 3 of the archers.

280 BC: Beijing falls, China eliminated. Judaism spread to Beijing on the turn it fell too. I think all of the China cities have Judaism now. I kept them all, my economy is not too hot but the money from capturing cities is a good top up.


Peace for a while:
Spoiler :

265 BC: Alphabet researched. Start on Code of Laws for courthouses. Beijing is miles away from Thebes. Moscow would make a better capital probably, or I could build the Forbidden Palace in Shanghai east of Moscow later.

250 BC: I start building a scout in Guangzhou, he will go and get the goody huts off the island near Memphis (once I have built a boat of course)

235 BC: Trade Metal Casting with Washington (maybe with one other AI, I forget now). Anyway, I got Meditation, Sailing, Monotheism and Archery from tech trades. No one else knows alphabet so I don't trade that. Washington is going to be the next target anyway so I figure he can start building forges if he wants rather than spears or more archers.

205BC: Chariots approach New York. I declare war. I start buildig a galley in Memphis for the scout to go exploring the islands near Thebes.
 
I noticed you settled horses first but I didn't even bother with a settler for copper until Russia was no more. From the timeline in your post I assumed you settled 3 cities before going off to war. (EDIT: I have confused myself reading your post again though). I think horses first was the right way to play this map though.
 
At this time, I have already finished and submitted my game. However, I wrote the below spoiler immediately after playing my 500 AD turn, and am now copying it in here verbatim.

***

Sitting here at 500 AD and taking stalk of the situation, one question dominates my thoughts… “Where’s the catch???” Last week, at Nobel level, we were presented with MM the science freak researching at well above the rate expected from that level (note that this is not a complaint; I really enjoyed that game! Just an observation.), and this week, to this point, it looks like we have a game that was engineered to be as easy as possible. Indeed, right now, this Prince game may be below the average difficulty for Nobel level. In fact, I can confidently say that I have never seen a start to be such in perfect synergy with a leader and set-up.

Consider that our traits are industrious and spiritual. Cheap wonders and free civics changes. This strongly suggests an early pyramid, which of course is significantly speeded along by the presence of nearby stone conveniently located in our copper city. Then turn to our unique unit. It requires horses, and is designed for an ultra early rush. And sure enough… We are provided an uncontested source of horses, and an obvious first target in Peter, who in addition to being located close by, lacks an early counter to our unit, and has a poor production capital making it impossible for him to mount any significant garrison.

Adding to all that, we have a game with raging barbs, but are located on an incredibly easy to fog-bust peninsula (indeed, I don’t think I even saw a barbarian until about 200 BC when I had completed a couple or wars to expand into the mainland). In contrast, all the AI have expansive backyards, and as a result are having their growth severely curtailed by barbarian activities. This forces them to focus more then normal on military units, which means that we can even afford to go for wonders later than normal, as we are essentially not having any of them contested.

So again, my thoughts are: “Where is the catch???” I have met all the leaders, and know roughly the lay of their lands. Nothing seems particularly unconventional or threatening on that front. I am leading or near the top in all significant categories, and comfortably ahead in technology. This looks like a trivial win to push home from here, but I cant help but thinking that the WOTM staff has a surprise in stored for us somewhere. This just seems to good to be true… Of course, I have yet to set eyes on the other continent, and it is entirely possible that there would be an unusually nasty surprise waiting over there if I ever planed to set foot on it. Since I don’t, then at this point, I cannot foresee where a problem could lie. Of course, I may well end up regretting those words in a thousand or so words… Time will tell…


In any event, back to the start of our tale:

I started this game with only a vague notion of elements of a plan:

-To leverage the leader traits by building the pyramids, the great wall if useful (depending on lay of the land) and a variety of other wonders.
-To knock out a neighbor early with chariots.
-To essentially win this game in the old world, either through a pre-astronomy conquest, or if enough land is present, by domination.

So, in 4000 BC, I moved one tile south, and settled there the next turn (the prime motivation for this being the extra city shield from the plains hill, which I love for getting a quick start to city growth (workboat or worker as the case may be). I decided to build a warrior in anticipation of raging barbs, and began researching fishing to get the seafood online as quickly as possible. My starting warrior went exploring SE, and quickly found stone (Yeah! Pyramids for sure now!) and Peter (An acceptable target as he lacks an early UU.) Having located Peter’s land, and noted that there was no peaceful expansion to be had in that direction, I turned the scout around, and explored the western peninsula. At this point, I quickly figured out that my two warriors could fog-bust all the land up to where my territory met Peter’s, meaning that the Great Wall was essentially a waste of resources, so I scratched it off my wish list.

After fishing, I researched mining and BW, and found copper also in my intended stone city (yippee!!). I also met scouts from Washington and Qin before 3000 BC when, having completed the workboat, I started a worker. Saladin came around shortly after that.

In 2500 BC, I finished researching AH, and found that I also had horsies around!! I quickly whipped/chopped two settlers, sending the first to found a city ON the horses, and the second to found ON the stone. While this sacrificed a bit of long term potential in these cities, it got all my resources hook up very quickly, allowing me to execute both an early rush, AND chase the pyramids.

I continued research following the pottery/writing path, and start building the pyramids in the capital as I start producing an army of chariots in my other cities. By 1600 BC, I am ready to declare on Peter. I have 1 chariot at his border, and he moves a worker next to him. With two more chariots to follow shortly (one already on route) and more in the pipe-line, I decide to go for it, and steal a worker. I move on to the capital where I find a single archer. This number would double by the time I got 4 chariots in place, and I took the city with a couple of losses in 1270 BC. I continued the war until 865 BC, at which point I had banished Peter to the annals of history (keeping Moscow and St. Pete. and razing the rest). During the war, I completed the pyramids (in 925 BC), and shortly after the war, in 790 BC, I learnt A…B…C…D…. well you get the idea….

After studying available trades carefully, I came up with the following combination. First year, I traded Sailing and writing to Washington for Poly and hunting. The next turn, Qin gave me Iron Working and archery for Poly, sail and writing. (This combination was important, since in year one, Qin would not let go of IW for anything I had available.

At this point, my cluster of chariots was looking around for something to do, and Shaka was in the lead on score. In addition, he had a couple or workers roaming the edge of his territory. I decided to take the workers, and try to nab a city or two, stunting his growth. I also decided to quickly build Stonehenge (completed in 595 BC) at this point as it became apparent that I was picking up several cities that needed borders popped. I took once city from Shaka in 520 BC (Which had an unpronounceable name, and which I simply renamed GP farm… It was founded about 6 times west of his capital, and had about 3 food resources and tons of grassland. I then sued for peace.

In the next 500 years, I met Liz, and also built the Great Library and the Great lighthouse.

At about 0AD, I decided that it was time to attack Shaka again… He had a city BETWEEN my GP farm and my capital, which was cutting of resource routes and hampering growth, plus his capital was another juicy city. Only problem was that I was being swarmed by barbs at GP farm (I had 5 chariots there, an they where barely managing to cover all the incoming) and this would get much worst once I took Shaka’s capital which was cutting them off to the East. Clearly there was A LOT of empty land to the east of that capital. At this point I realized that the Great Wall was STILL available, and quickly set about remedying that situation.

So, I declare my second war on Shaka in 110 AD, stealing 3 workers on the first turn! Great wall completed in 245 AD, and in 260 AD with monopoly broken on alphabet, I sold it around for about 500 gc. I also sold off Literature to Washington for Priesthood and some cash.

In 275 AD, I declared with Qin in parallel. He had strayed from his peninsula and founded Shanghai on our side of the mountains dividing his land from ours. That injustice was quickly rectified. In 410, having taken Shanghai, I sued for peace, and in the same year, I managed to eliminate Shaka.

This essentially takes us to the end of the first spoiler in 500 AD. I currently have 11 cities: 5 I founded (Capital, horses, stone, and two I founded on the northern islands; one to grab crab, dear, and several beavers, and the other grabs marble and a second source of metals), and 6 that I got via the swo…I mean chariots (Moscow, St. Pete, Shanghai, GP farm, Shaka capital, and the city Shaka founded between GP farm and Moscow.)

The demographics screen shows me last in GNP, second in pop (tho I am first in pop on the victories screen, with 28% to Washington;s 22%) and first in Mfg, agg, power and land (13.7% to Sal’s 6%). I also have a significant tech lead on everyone.

So, as stated in the preamble, this looks like an easy coast to the finish line, as I should be able to role up opponents one after the other. Time will tell if there is a surprise to come…
 
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