WOTM 48 -- Final spoiler

[kcd_swede]

WOTM 48 Final Spoiler

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Stop! If you are participating in WOTM 41 (Happy New Ear), then you MUST NOT read this thread unless

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..........................................

Hard game? I thought so.
Tell us your strategy, and whether it worked or not.

[img=left]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/wotm48civ.jpg[/img]

 

[matthew9890]

Well I was bored, and the crazy map intrigued me, so I decided to have a laugh and play this one. My usual play level is Prince, so I knew it was going to an embarrassing loss.

I decided to SIP, because all the flood plains would make a really nice bureaucracy capital, this was a bit of a mistake, because with the higher difficulty giving me much less free health for my city, I built the city and it was instantly unhealthy, There was also no food resources in my fat cross other than the pigs, which I couldn't even improve until I had iron working So city growth was really slow.

Apart from the health issue, I also managed to lose my warrior in very few turns, which was not great, again I was too used to the lower difficulty bonuses, those animals are really quite nasty on immortal.

Other than those things it seemed somewhat normal playing on immortal for the first couple of turns, I think I built a worker, a warrior and then started on a settler, but then it happened, The Barbarians came...

The Barbarians seemed almost organised on this difficulty, since 4 warriors and an archer decided to come and do some pillaging in my city at the same time. They quickly destroyed everything that my worker had built around my city, and forced me to whip a warrior, then I think I got another one with the overflow. I also decided it might be a good idea to get archery, something that I usually ignore at the start of a game, and I also whipped out an archer. This whipping hurt, as my city was growing really slowly and I was trying to get a settler out, and I now only had 1 pop, and no improved tiles, and I don't think I had gotten any progress towards the settler from the whipping overflow. I managed to survive, but the barbarian offensive managed to kill off my game.

The settler took awhile to build in my 1 pop city, and I was too scared to let it leave my city without 2 archers escorting it and some more protecting my cap, so I had spend more time building extra archers. I settled my second (and last) city to the North, 1 tile North of a mountain. A few turns after this the AI managed to settle cities all around my tiny civilization, and I have to say I have never been so happy to see the AI close in all around me, this meant that the barbarian threat was over

At this point I was massively behind in techs, and had no space for new cities and almost no troops (4 archers, 2 warriors?), it was clear that as predicted I would fail terribly, and I decided that I would see how long it took for the AI to wipe me out.

This is the strange part, the AI didn't bother wipe me out, I managed to exist with my two cities for the rest of the game, I managed to avoid all wars and was still alive when the Romans won a space victory in 1824 AD (I was researching democracy at the time). Instead of destroying my tiny nation, the AI's actually seemed friendly. I was gifted 4 techs by the AI; Meditation, Polytheism, Horseback Riding and Monotheism. I had ignored these techs, so they were extremely old techs when I got them, but it was still really weird and generous of them (maybe it's because it is near Christmas ).

As well as the techs, the Romans actually came to me and offered a defensive pact with him, even though I still only had the 4 archers and 2 warriors, Does this usually happen? I was only at Pleased with the guy, and in my experience the AI generally only likes to give out Defensive pacts on Friendly. I accepted the defensive pact and that lasted until the end of the game. I have to say, from what I have seen the AI is much more friendly on Immortal

This game has made me appreciate how hard this game can be and makes me respect anyone who can get a win at such a high difficulty, I have no idea how you guys do it. I think I might stick with Prince in the future (with the occasional Monarch game, for when the Prince seems too easy). Oh well, I hope this story of my failure has been entertaining in some way. Also I hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Ear!

 

[Manco Capac]

That was an interesting scenario. I did not know that fantasy mapscript was that crappy.
And I've relearnt many facts about warlords expansion. For instance, I was surprised Alpha was not monopoly-less, thus making my head scratching about what kind of previous code was ruling tech trade.
Also, I got trapped by the common mistake that golden age doesn't bring anarchy-free swap of civics. Also, I had to live again how broken older versions were compared to BTS, that is no urgency whippings or siege overpowered (and less expensive ave maria!). Not to talk about how broken is the path to cavalries; come on, there's no counter at all for centuries to cavalries.

Anyways, my main strategy given the immense general poverty of food throughout the map except tampered capitals (they must be tampered), was to use H'wachas, then phants+H'wacha (when longbows come) and finally go for cavalries. I attempted to maximize score. And I intended dom, no conquest.

The particularity of this map was the dearth of food to be acquired peacefully and a forced rapture of AI capitals are easing a lot the game. And second problem was the humongous amount of silver plots, which helps too much the AI's through the tech tree. Thus conquer asap was best to me.

 

[Manco Capac]

the Romans won a space victory in 1824 AD

The hell, I did not remember the AI's were so badass on IMM.

I cannot imagine deity; 1750 AD?

 

[kcd_swede]

Your observations are pretty much the same as mine. The AI don't really try to win, and they are even less likely to try to destroy you. They tend to play with the objective of preventing YOU from winning. It might be a fine distinction, but its a very important one... snatching victory out of the jaws of defeat is available for a long while, if you set your mind to it.

Gotta play abopve your comfort level if you want to improve. Good effort!

 

[kcd_swede]

The hell, I did not remember the AI's were so badass on IMM.

I cannot imagine deity; 1750 AD?

In my experience, the AI will win faster in Warlords expansion than any other, if you let them.

I seldom win at IMM on Warlords, so I had no idea how this one would play out when I made it. And for those who wondered, no, I didn't modify anything. If you didn't like the map, blame Sid. If you liked it, I'll gladly take credit, though.

 

[Manco Capac]

In my experience, the AI will win faster in Warlords expansion than any other, if you let them.

I seldom win at IMM on Warlords, so I had no idea how this one would play out when I made it. And for those who wondered, no, I didn't modify anything. If you didn't like the map, blame Sid. If you liked it, I'll gladly take credit, though.

In fact, Sid has nothing to do with any game except the one I think. Now, he's like a spiritual chief of the franchise. Soren Johnson is the one in charge of CIV. His name is all over the code lol.

I can't believe you the map isn't tampered! First, there's no pig on grass hill, that violates the fantasy mapscript rule. And what about those FP's? Why have we lots of them while there are almost none elsewhere. You won't fool me, KCD!

I think one factor that makes Warlords AI more badass is the fact space race is at least 10 turns earlier than space colony as there is no waiting period. Why more badass than Vanilla? No idea; I've virtually never played that version. Probably Warlords AI has a better code.

I noticed they weren't much deity WOTM's and the only one I've seen was won by...well...everyone knows...God. And it seems that WOTM is more random in their difficulty order? WOTM is the unpopular xOTM?

 

[kcd_swede]

WOTM is the unpopular xOTM?

WOTM probably gets the fewest submissions. But I always attributed that to the fact that everyone who plays BOTM has the vanilla as well and if they are hooked enough they will play both. People who have both tend to view Warlods at least as favorably as vanilla, so it depends on what you mean by "popularity".

But not everyone is so far along in their addiction as I am... buying the Warlords expansion after BtS was already owned just to be able to play another xOTM. (If the WOTM ceased to be, it would ruin my investment, and thats how I ended up a mapmaker-- and how you all ended up with Humbabas and other assorted malfunctions).

 

[LincolnOfRome]

I usually play BTS at emperor level, and sometimes immortal. Still, this was a tough kind of map for me to play, and warlords seems to be a tougher game for me than beyond the sword.

I expanded to ten cities and was doing well enough tech-wise. I made friends with Isabella early by converting to Judaism and managed to not get involved in early wars. Around 1500, I decided to add some cottages and focus on building saewons and banks in all my cities.

I must have fallen below the power curve at some point. Hannibal and Alexander both attacked me. No one would be bribed to aid me. I switched to Nationhood and Theocracy, and spammed as many defensive units as I could. That wasn't enough to stop the onslaught. Every single city I had was conquered and raised in less than a hundred years.

I lost with a score of zero in 1705.

 

[greatbeyond]

KCD Swede says "The AI don't really try to win, and they are even less likely to try to destroy you"
This was a joke right? Perhaps April Fools?

Immortal and every aggressive AI combined with one of the hardest map types!

Recap: Moved to the Tundra hill to the West and settled. Research showed settling in place or anywhere with a large number of flood plains was a health (thus expansion) killer. Built Worker,Warrior, then Settler and settled him on the Silver just north of the sea to the east. I got excited seeing all the Silver and planned to take it. Got Archery about this time and started building Archers as testing showed the Barbs were vicious. I can't imagine if they were raging barbs. Built my third city to the north on the river 1nw of the gems. Still building Archers hoping to get two more settlers out. By this time I had met everyone. Though I expected it from my tests to have a crazy distribution of resources, I am dismayed to find there isn't any bronze anywhere nearby AND no Horses. (That is nowhere but in Isabella's starting area)

1160BC Isabella goes from Cautious to Pleased .
1120BC Isaa DOWs and attacks my second city.

She brings 5 or 6 Archers but I'm not too worried as I have enough promoted Archers to defend my cities. Of course I worry when a Spear appears, hmmm a little unfair mapmaker, wasn't it enough to make Isaa a close neighbor? A few turns later it is Swordsmen, IRON TOO! what are you thinking KCD?, Then Chariots AND Horses! What no Tactical Nukes for her to start with? It wasn't even any consolation when I finally learn IW to find it near my third city, ...too little too late.

I also learn Alpha and I try to bribe both Louis and Alex(?) to attack Isaa, neither one will do it (and Louis only gives me Pottery and Fishing for Alpha, Alex won't give anything even before trading it to Louis!) after I try to offer it to Isaa for peace. Nothing doing. She wants Pyongyang(?).

The war goes on for 2,000 years which goes to show you my army strength never factored into Isaa's DOW and refusal to give peace. It was a grudge match. She thought Korea was going to be a pushover and went from 2nd to 4th place over the course of the war.

Isaa gets Louis to DOW a few turns later but he doesn't show up in force for 1,000 years.

War starts 1020bc and ends 940AD when Louis and Isaa combine to take my last city.

Techs: Ag,BW,Hunting,Archery,Wheel, AH, Writing, Alpha, IW.

Stats: I built 20 Archers, 6 Spears, 1 Axe, and 2 Swords.
I Kill: 22 Archers, 1 Spear, 6 Swords, 6 Chariots, 19 Horse Archers, 5 LB, 4 Cats, 2 Maces, and 2 XB.

It seemed that every Archer on Archer attack I tried with a success rate of 70% to 90% ended in defeat. I killed so many through defense alone.

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

This is the strange part, the AI didn't bother wipe me out, I managed to exist with my two cities for the rest of the game, I managed to avoid all wars and was still alive when the Romans won a space victory in 1824 AD (I was researching democracy at the time). Instead of destroying my tiny nation, the AI's actually seemed friendly. I was gifted 4 techs by the AI; Meditation, Polytheism, Horseback Riding and Monotheism. I had ignored these techs, so they were extremely old techs when I got them, but it was still really weird and generous of them (maybe it's because it is near Christmas ).

My story was very similar! I was not taking this too seriously either (my play level is monarch with occasional emperor wins), but I sucked bad time.

I realized I lost the game on very 1st turn, when I SIP ans saw the unhealthy mark.
I don´t think it was possible to win if you SIP, no matter what you did.

When I realized this, I just built 3 crappy cities in the little remaining land, and clicked turns away, waiting for someone to finish me off.

So when Augustus Caesar asked me to to war with Izzy, I said yes. He vassaled her few turns later.
Well this started an alliance - defensive pacts etc. Augustus giving me techs.

My diplomacy was saying yes to top part of the scoreboard and no to the other half.
Then Hannibal declared on me (I would say it was a bug - his stack attacked my scaut deep in another territory)

The defensive pact activated and Augustus won the war and made a new defensive pact.
No unit or city of mine was ever attacked, despite various doom stacks marching thorough my land toward some distant wars.

1929 AD - space race loss.

Spoiler :

 

[Manco Capac]

Wow, some people have sturdy morale. If I knew I would lose, I wouldn't push the next turn buttom until the 1900s.

 

[Sleepless]

Mmm going to have to submit an incomplete game with no time to finish even though I started the game before Christmas..

Well things started bad when I stopped playing before Christmas. Around 1120BC I had 2 cities with a combined pop of 3!!! Had big problems with barbs early on. Knowing that the capital early on would be bad as a worker/settler pump I chopped out my first settler. Second city went East for the deer/fur. Then the barbs started coming!!! managed to survive but cost me in lack of cities/improvements hence the 2 cities when I resumed the game a couple of days ago.

At least we had access to phants/hwachas so settled a few more cities and went for construction with the idea of a military expansion.. Duly vassaled Louis. Next target Isabella... Mmm lost a lot of units in this war so Loius decided he was strong enough to stop being my vassal and what was I going to do about it!!! Discretion made me agree so louis broke free... Once I had ended the war with Isabella I was going to attack Loius again just to see him peace vassal to Augustus.. Great!! Managed to vassal Isabella in a second war. Not wanting to take on AC with Louis and Cyrus as his vassals had to decide between Han or Alex. Tried to scout out Han before declaring on him but he closed borders with me... Still I had a ton of units and he didn't have many cities so how many troops did he have... Answer loads.. Which due to the lack of time is where I had to stop after taking one of his cities.

Thanks for hosting though..

 

[Manco Capac]

^
I'm surprised you didn't go after Augustus. After scouting his area, it became clear to me he had to be crushed. Not to mention his preats cannot stand H'wacha.

Except of me, did anyone win?

 

[Sleepless]

^
I'm surprised you didn't go after Augustus. After scouting his area, it became clear to me he had to be crushed. Not to mention his preats cannot stand H'wacha.

Except of me, did anyone win?

With playing badly at the start I went for the easiest target with my limited resources at the time. Hindisght reducing Augustus would have been better. Louis is generally easy to take at any time..

 

[Manco Capac]

I know who might have won...Deckhand?

Now I understand why deity Warlord games are forbidden.